Puppy Forum and Dog Forums banner
1 - 12 of 12 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
81 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
You know those big muscular Pit Bulls know as "American Bullies". Are they as strong as they look? Or is it a case of their muscles not being as solid, just muscular looking. How strong physically do you think they are compared to other dogs?

Thanks!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,140 Posts
Not really, I've rarely seen a muscular looking bully, most are fat. I've seen a few but that is very rare. I doubt they are as strong, the majority anyway, I'm sure some have the potential to be strong but a dog who's obese and isn't worked won't be as strong as a dog who is in good shape and worked. Many don't have a sound structure so that is a drawback too. Of course I think a sound in shape bully would be as strong as a sound in shape Rott, GSD, whatever it may be.

Oh and lets not forget will. For those that lack drive it doesn't matter how strong they actually are if they don't put effort into what they are doing. That would apply to all breeds of course.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,778 Posts
Some probably are, while some aren't. If you're speaking in terms of weight pulling - dogs have to be conditioned for that. So while some of it is natural strength it also depends on how well the dog has been worked. I think that holds true outside of competition and sport as well. If you want your dog to be as strong as he looks, then you have to make sure to give him lots of exercise and work. Muscles that just sit there without having to exert any consistent effort are only going to be so strong.

Edit: Spicy pretty much beat me to it :p
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
77 Posts
Just to put this out there, American Bullies aren't always obese/overweight, etc. Their bone structure/frame actually would make them physically stronger than dogs with lighter frames such as German Shepherds or Dobermans. Rottweilers are Mastiff type dogs and so are the American Bully. Their main influence is Mastiff. Remember, Mastiff breeds are known for their powerfully built frame. Their bones are thicker, heavier and more compact.

You can't breed a dog to "look" strong, the musculature of the American Bully indicates with proper conditioning, a 130lb monster could be a 100 lb powerhouse.

True APBT don't always have "sound" structures either, but it never affected their athletic ability. Of course American Bullies features are far more over over exaggerated, but keep in mind some are more "sound" in built compared to others.

This is better



Compared to this

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,968 Posts
A lot of Ambullies look like they're on steroids. I think they look like furry hippos. =P
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,140 Posts
No one said real APBTs always have sound structure. Of course they do not and of course it hinders their ability. I had one go to a pet home for that very reason. Unsound structure although she loved to work. It just wasn't fair to her because of her body. Mind and drive were all there, too bad structure turned out so bad.

Conditioned they can look nice if they have a sound structure. I've seen some ripped with proper structure and I really liked those dogs, but they are few and fair between. The majority are owed by people who don't even know what they are doing, let alone work their dogs. They just let them get fat and brag about how much they weigh.

Thicker bone doesn't always mean a dog is stronger then another. Even if that is so if they are inhibited by physical issues then its really of no help at all.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
77 Posts
Of course they do not and of course it hinders their ability.
What type of ability are we speaking of? Because APBT's were bred for how they performed, versus their physical structure. (We both know dog fighting) Have you noticed bully breeds tend to have some of the best or worse structures? More emphasis is geared towards their ability and drive to ____ (insert purpose here.) What bully breeds lack in physical ability their drive makes up for it.

I had one go to a pet home for that very reason. Unsound structure although she loved to work. It just wasn't fair to her because of her body. Mind and drive were all there, too bad structure turned out so bad.
Just curious of the type of work she was preforming.

Conditioned they can look nice if they have a sound structure. I've seen some ripped with proper structure and I really liked those dogs, but they are few and fair between.
I'm sorry, but true working bullies aren't "pretty" to the average dog owner. Their structure varies by bloodline because they were utilized for dog fighting or their desire to complete a task. The successful fighting lines have more dogs with unsound structures compared to "ideal." When breeding working bullies of course one should not aim to over exaggerate their features, but if it doesn't hinder the animal greatly, then drive and the desire to complete a task is more important. For Bullies, this is fine, but for other breeds it may not be appropriate.
The majority are owed by people who don't even know what they are doing, let alone work their dogs. They just let them get fat and brag about how much they weigh.
I completely agree.

Thicker bone doesn't always mean a dog is stronger then another. Even if that is so if they are inhibited by physical issues then its really of no help at all.
I have seen quite a few "unsound" American Bullies and none of them were so inhibited that they couldn't pull on their leashes. From my personal experience, they pull like a horse just because of their compact structures. Their mastiffy breeds.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,140 Posts
What type of ability are we speaking of? Because APBT's were bred for how they performed, versus their physical structure. (We both know dog fighting) Have you noticed bully breeds tend to have some of the best or worse structures? More emphasis is geared towards their ability and drive to ____ (insert purpose here.) What bully breeds lack in physical ability their drive makes up for it.
Whatever physically taxing job they are doing.

Yes I agree they were bred for fighting/working their overall ability is still hindered by their physical structure. Now does that mean they will loose and the dog with better structure win? Of course not, but they might not be able to wrestle or drive as well depending on the specific fault. Or they might not be able to breath as easy resulting in over heating or loss of stamina due to loss of oxygen. Wind is extremely important and can only be built up so much, a dog with short muzzle and shallow chest is going to be inhibited. Same in other work, they might still do it, doesn't mean they are not inhibited.

Yeah I've noticed that. Either drop dead "gorgeous" or "ugly" mutt looking. Got to love the diversity though.

I would agree they make up for this in drive but that only goes so far. I have seen dogs that are in "bad shape" by the time they are in their sen. years. Sure maybe game dog could be a CH and who cares if they are crippled at 8yrs or have severe HD showing at 6yrs. Or if they are doing poorly during work because of their structure as long as they still keep going to get the job done. I know people think that way. Same if they are hunting or pulling. It is still bad on the dog and not fair to work them with a structure, joint or health issue. I wasn't saying their determination and drive would lack, they'll do it but is it really fair?

Just curious of the type of work she was preforming.
This specific bitch was weight pulling. Hunting was really not an option even. She could pull but wasn't fair on her.

I'm sorry, but true working bullies aren't "pretty" to the average dog owner. Their structure varies by bloodline because they were utilized for dog fighting or their desire to complete a task. The successful fighting lines have more dogs with unsound structures compared to "ideal." When breeding working bullies of course one should not aim to over exaggerate their features, but if it doesn't hinder the animal greatly, then drive and the desire to complete a task is more important. For Bullies, this is fine, but for other breeds it may not be appropriate.
I'm sorry but no bullies were bred for a "freak" look and I'd say while some are used for weight pull (maybe a few others huge minority in other sports) they were not utilized for fighting. I really don't care what the average dog owner thinks. Never have. If bully breeders actually cared as a majority about working then they'd find their dogs structure inappropriate. I know everyone has an opinion but I fail to see how most of their structure doesn't cause a problem. That is actually a big issue with me for some that still have a bit of drive but terrible structure! They want to do something but can't do much and if it is the least bit warm outside forget about. Again I've seen some with appropriate structure, ripped and actually worked in something but they are few and far between. Most have them because they are the "cool new breed". I actually have to say that despite most of them having hideous structure (IMO) it is what the average owner likes or finds pretty. They don't know what a real APBT looks like and some just don't care. Walk a bully down the street and I'm sure you will here people say "awesome pit" whether the dog is a working bully or not, its what many average owners expect and like now days.

Now APBTs, I already agree they were used for fighting. That is a fact no one can deny. As for structure they are all beautiful in their own way or have their own look about them. It really doesn't matter what they look like overall but that doesn't mean structure won't ever come into play. Again just because a dog will do something doesn't mean its best for their body. And it just depends on the line IMO. Some lines have horrible structure more common others have close to ideal very often then others seems to give you something a little different every time and keep you guessing. With working dogs function will always come before form. That however is different then breeding a thick, low - wide, big headed dog with several structure issues that can cause problems and saying well it will still have the drive (that most do nothing to prove). Just because fighting/working dogs can work with some faults doesn't mean that bullies are going to be great working dogs. I've seen those things try to catch pigs, even in pinned catch and they have major short comings. Short legs means they cover less ground in the same amount of time. I've also seen them heat up fast and run out of air before they can even complete the task even if they are trying. To me it is like comparing typical English Bulldog to an American Bulldog. You just can't say structure plays no part. Its apples and oranges except for those rare exception of bullies which have good structure and happen to have owners who want to make them a working breeds. People think EBs look strong and tough, but really what can they do so great? Especially compared to a working bred dog with a better structure.

I completely agree.
Glad we at least agree on that.

I have seen quite a few "unsound" American Bullies and none of them were so inhibited that they couldn't pull on their leashes. From my personal experience, they pull like a horse just because of their compact structures. Their mastiffy breeds.
Pulling on a leash? That is nothing. At least nothing compared to actual hard work. ?? I don't see how a deformed dog with unsound structure will be equal to a dog with sound structure. Just ain't happening. Let me see the dog catch hogs for a couple hours in the sweltering heat or round up livestock and drive them for hours. I realize not all bullies are bad off, in general most are not great in structure and a lot are bad off. Yet people do not even cull these defective ones with severe bow legs, crippled back legs, all out at the joints, ects. Its sad really. These dogs appear to not be able to even walk and move, let alone work? I doubt those dogs on average could keep up running a race, let alone working just because they have drive. After all if I were crippled I wouldn't expect to run as fast as a person in sound physical condition no matter how bad I wanted it.

To me there is no question. Compare to dogs of equal size and drive but one horrible structure and other great.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
77 Posts
When I mention "bullies" it's a general term for working bully breeds such as pitbulls, staffordshires, bull terriers, etc. American Bully is referring mainly hog-like dogs. I hope there is no confusion.


Of course not, but they might not be able to wrestle or drive as well depending on the specific fault.
I"m just trying to lay a finger on these dogs with "sound" structures. If you look at some of these historic fighting APBT lines and view some of the photographs and these dogs look horrible in structure compared to what is generally displayed on calendars, for example. Some of these dogs were said to be great wrestlers. Working bullies who are bred for appearance for any reason are not true working bullies. Sure, some quality dogs come around with "great" structures but if their drive is superior than that is what it's about in my book. I understand people may not agree with me and my views. I tend to be a little old fashion.

These APBTs overall do not have over exaggerated features like majority of American bullies. They still have deep chests with huge lungs for their size and longer legs.
Or they might not be able to breath as easy resulting in over heating or loss of stamina due to loss of oxygen.
I agree if their features are over exaggerated for appearance purposes, like a lot of American Bullies. You so happen to be describing some of the worse examples of American Bullies. Larger and heavier dogs do lack wind compared to lighter framed dogs, but what I'm trying to say is some American Bullies are not hog-like. American bullies can be more leggy, with a deeper chest versus a wider chest that is functional. I agree with everything you are saying regarding the performance issues with obese American Bullies. I"m speaking about dogs that look more like this:



Same in other work, they might still do it, doesn't mean they are not inhibited.
The problem with these "sound" bully dogs is they may be physically superior in the ranks of structure but they lack drive. This does not mean I would desire a dog that could barely work properly. A dog doesn't have to be canine perfection in terms of structure, but so-so with some serious determination is fine by me.

they'll do it but is it really fair?
Depends on the dog owner. Some people still believe a dog is meant to perform its job/purpose and that's that. When working dogs are old and cripple, the dog may become a serious liability to the owner. Based on my research, dogs were better off when the working breeds were still preforming what they were intended to do. However, in modern society we just don't need dogs to what they originally were intended to perform anymore. Select breeders are utilizing the dogs and it's thanks to them that at least all breeds of working dogs still have good examples of themselves left.

I'm sorry but no bullies were bred for a "freak" look and I'd say while some are used for weight pull (maybe a few others huge minority in other sports) they were not utilized for fighting.
I really can't seem to find another purpose for American Bullies than to look "macho." Select people owned them until they went main stream and now they are in high demand. One good thing about them is they aren't very dog aggressive and are very people friendly. I would consider one if they were not so expensive. Majority of the breeders are puppy peddlers in it for the money.

If bully breeders actually cared as a majority about working then they'd find their dogs structure inappropriate.
Oh, no I wasn't mentioning anything about the majority of the American Bullies in terms of working. Just the ones who are more leggier and less exaggerated in form.

That is actually a big issue with me for some that still have a bit of drive but terrible structure!
What you talking about? Their structure doesn't phase them when it's time for a feeding. :p

They want to do something but can't do much and if it is the least bit warm outside forget about.
You are lucky to have seen an exaggerated American Bully who actually wants to do something. :D They remind me of english bulldogs.

Just because fighting/working dogs can work with some faults doesn't mean that bullies are going to be great working dogs
I wasn't implying this. I was implying based on the American Bully structure in general they are strong dogs. Nothing to do with their working ability unless we are speaking of the select few.

You just can't say structure plays no part.
Not in the ways of over exaggeration. I've explained above.
Pulling on a leash? That is nothing. At least nothing compared to actual hard work. ??
Oh I wasn't mentioning "hard work." (Then again to a American Bully hard work is tugging on a leash.) I believe that even the general American Bully is physically stronger than a good example of a german shepherd. In one category, but that was originally what I was mentioning. Nothing else of any nature.

PB
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,140 Posts
When I mention "bullies" it's a general term for working bully breeds such as pitbulls, staffordshires, bull terriers, etc. American Bully is referring mainly hog-like dogs. I hope there is no confusion.
Ok I was thinking American Bullies when I see bullies.

I"m just trying to lay a finger on these dogs with "sound" structures. If you look at some of these historic fighting APBT lines and view some of the photographs and these dogs look horrible in structure compared to what is generally displayed on calendars, for example. Some of these dogs were said to be great wrestlers. Working bullies who are bred for appearance for any reason are not true working bullies. Sure, some quality dogs come around with "great" structures but if their drive is superior than that is what it's about in my book. I understand people may not agree with me and my views. I tend to be a little old fashion.
Yes but you are getting dogs with variance. From ugly to not only sound but actually good conformation. It all depends on the line. Certainly some dogs with horrible structure can be great wrestlers this doesn't mean their body isn't further taxed. Especially when they get the health issues associated with their structure.

These APBTs overall do not have over exaggerated features like majority of American bullies. They still have deep chests with huge lungs for their size and longer legs.
Ok but I was talking about AmBullies, not APBTs with faults.

I agree if their features are over exaggerated for appearance purposes, like a lot of American Bullies. You so happen to be describing some of the worse examples of American Bullies. Larger and heavier dogs do lack wind compared to lighter framed dogs, but what I'm trying to say is some American Bullies are not hog-like. American bullies can be more leggy, with a deeper chest versus a wider chest that is functional. I agree with everything you are saying regarding the performance issues with obese American Bullies. I"m speaking about dogs that look more like this:

Some of the "worse examples" happen to be the majority of examples and what most are breeding for. I already mentioned I've seen some bullies with sound structure and in good condition. Therefore I know non hog like AmBullies exist. Yet they are in the minority for sure.

The problem with these "sound" bully dogs is they may be physically superior in the ranks of structure but they lack drive. This does not mean I would desire a dog that could barely work properly. A dog doesn't have to be canine perfection in terms of structure, but so-so with some serious determination is fine by me.
Why would they lack drive. Just because a dog is sound doesn't mean they instantly loose drive or working ability. Just as if a dog is ugly doesn't mean it will have drive, gameness, working ability. If this were the case I don't think dogs could show and hunt hogs, be a show and go CH, have titles in show and weight pull, ect. It depends on how the dog is bred and the individual. If the dog is only bred for show or looks of course you start to loose the essentials, true of any breed, I would only agree with that. As with other breeds you also get dogs that can work and show, others never have shown only work but do have a sound structure.

Depends on the dog owner. Some people still believe a dog is meant to perform its job/purpose and that's that. When working dogs are old and cripple, the dog may become a serious liability to the owner. Based on my research, dogs were better off when the working breeds were still preforming what they were intended to do. However, in modern society we just don't need dogs to what they originally were intended to perform anymore. Select breeders are utilizing the dogs and it's thanks to them that at least all breeds of working dogs still have good examples of themselves left.
I believe somewhat the same. However I fail to see how a dog that is crippled at 6yrs old is really worth much. It leaves you with very little options retire and keep feeding the dog, plug the dog, or give away as a pet and make them another person's problem. I do not think dogs are better off when they have such short working lifespans. At least not for me, it is too much time and $ invested in. Sure for others whether they be fighting or whatever the dog can get their wins before they are a sen. or the dog can work up until they are a sen. and who cares then, they'll be retired for breeding. I personally don't have a need for dogs like that, but rather dogs that have health and longevity. Keeping them would allow for far to many retired dogs, culling them would be too frequent and having to start over with new dogs every so (too) often, giving them away would be putting a lot of crappy dogs out there for if there were even enough homes.

I really can't seem to find another purpose for American Bullies than to look "macho." Select people owned them until they went main stream and now they are in high demand. One good thing about them is they aren't very dog aggressive and are very people friendly. I would consider one if they were not so expensive. Majority of the breeders are puppy peddlers in it for the money.
Well it really depends on the bully. I know plenty that are friendly but I know some with a mean streak as well. I feel that I'm much more likely to be bit by an Am Bully then an APBT. Yes totally agree, puppy peddlers who don't even know what they are doing. Really though if you look around you will find some selling them at cheaper. Although I don't know what you consider expensive. I see the outrageous price tags but then I see some that are about the same price as APBTs too.

Oh, no I wasn't mentioning anything about the majority of the American Bullies in terms of working. Just the ones who are more leggier and less exaggerated in form.
Ok those are the ones I was speaking of in my previous post as mentioned before. Let me find it.

Conditioned they can look nice if they have a sound structure. I've seen some ripped with proper structure and I really liked those dogs, but they are few and fair between. The majority are owed by people who don't even know what they are doing, let alone work their dogs. They just let them get fat and brag about how much they weigh.

What you talking about? Their structure doesn't phase them when it's time for a feeding. :p
LOL

You are lucky to have seen an exaggerated American Bully who actually wants to do something. :D They remind me of english bulldogs.
That is how I see them. More like a large English Bulldog. Some still do have the drive, at least some drive, its just that most of them can't keep up with themselves in terms of physical ability.

I wasn't implying this. I was implying based on the American Bully structure in general they are strong dogs. Nothing to do with their working ability unless we are speaking of the select few.
Ok I see.

Oh I wasn't mentioning "hard work." (Then again to a American Bully hard work is tugging on a leash.) I believe that even the general American Bully is physically stronger than a good example of a german shepherd. In one category, but that was originally what I was mentioning. Nothing else of any nature.
This reminds me a few months back in the fall, it wasn't too hot or too cold. We started out on a walk that wasn't to be too long. The poor bully girl couldn't even keep up. She ended up laying out, panting and had to take a diagonal short cut (we were walking in a rectangle, maybe went 7 blocks or so instead of completing that they took the shortest route) snorting and panting the whole way.
 
1 - 12 of 12 Posts
Top