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So I took Mina in for her second shot today, and while in the waiting room at the vets some people were having a conversation. Well the one guy goes on to say about how when he got his doberman as a puppy, he would hold it down on a regular basis and bite it as hard as he could. :rolleyes: According to him that's the entire reason his dog is obedient now. Like the title says people never cease to amaze me with the things that come out of their mouths.
 

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I hate when im at a park or the dog beach and i see people using "Dog Whisperer" techniques..
This girls dog was playing too rough, and every time shed grab him by the neck scruff, throw it to the ground and hold him there.... Just like that way Caesar Milan does, calling it the "alpha rollover" or something.. I guess thats somewhat similar to the holding a dog down and biting it as the OP posted haha...
I actually thought he was a good trainer until I started watching DVD's and reading books by people who had education in pet behavioral psychology and realized what a dumba** the "dog whisperer" really is.

I bought Ian Dunbars DVD for puppy training and it was amazingly effective. I had my 11 week old puppy doing sit, stay, laydown in less than 3 days.
Dr. Ian Dunbar is a veterinarian, animal behaviorist, and writer. Dr. Dunbar received his veterinary degree and a Special Honors degree in Physiology & Biochemistry from the Royal Veterinary College (London University) and a doctorate in animal behavior from the Psychology Department at the University of California in Berkeley, where he spent ten years researching olfactory communication, the development of hierarchical social behavior, and aggression in domestic dogs.
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For anyone that watches the dog whisperer, You may find this article interesting
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2006/10/15/CMGPHL9D1N1.DTL
 

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So I took Mina in for her second shot today, and while in the waiting room at the vets some people were having a conversation. Well the one guy goes on to say about how when he got his doberman as a puppy, he would hold it down on a regular basis and bite it as hard as he could. :rolleyes: According to him that's the entire reason his dog is obedient now. Like the title says people never cease to amaze me with the things that come out of their mouths.
They're referring to biting with a hand to simulate pack discipline. It's essentially a quick squeeze with the fingers and thumb.
 

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They're referring to biting with a hand to simulate pack discipline. It's essentially a quick squeeze with the fingers and thumb.
How do you know that for sure? People have done some WEIRD things when training dogs/puppies.. it wouldn't surprise me one bit if the person actually bit the puppy with his mouth.

Upendi'sMom, I've had my fill of idiot dog owners today, too. I won't hijack your thread with them, but just know, your frustration is mine, too.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
How do you know that for sure? People have done some WEIRD things when training dogs/puppies.. it wouldn't surprise me one bit if the person actually bit the puppy with his mouth.

Upendi'sMom, I've had my fill of idiot dog owners today, too. I won't hijack your thread with them, but just know, your frustration is mine, too.
Feel free to rant away here.
And I assure everyone he meant bite with his teeth, he made a chomping motion to reenact.
 

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I remember a friend telling me how when her husbands dad died they were left looking after his dog. Because the dad had been the dogs leader and he had never obeyed anyone else they were having a lot of trouble with him, because now the leader was dead he saw himself as highest in the house. So the guy wrestled the dog and won, and the dog settled down no problem as "second". The dog didn't seem to have any major problems, but at that point I knew nothing about dogs, so just accepted it.

I don't know how much of that was true, and I had forgotten it until just now.
 

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RubyLove;574733So the guy wrestled the dog and won said:
Maybe by wrestling it down he earned the dogs respect, and by not hurting it after it was down and vulnerable he earned the dogs trust. I would put it in the 'don't try this at home category' but just because it isn't all about hugs, clickers and treats doesn't mean its not valid in the right circumstances. Dogs are animals; don't discount primal methods.
 

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Maybe by wrestling it down he earned the dogs respect, and by not hurting it after it was down and vulnerable he earned the dogs trust. I would put it in the 'don't try this at home category' but just because it isn't all about hugs, clickers and treats doesn't mean its not valid in the right circumstances. Dogs are animals; don't discount primal methods.
Oh, I wasn't disagreeing with what he did, it was a dog set in it's ways and he made it possible for the dog to stay where he had always lived, and kept the dog happy and certain of his place within the house. I forgot to mention the part that made it relevant to this thread lol. He bit the dog in order to win.

In his case I didn't disagree with it, but as an initial training method for puppies I would. When I said I accepted it through dog-ignorance I meant I didn't ask further questions, which I would do now simply to learn.
 

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This girls dog was playing too rough, and every time shed grab him by the neck scruff, throw it to the ground and hold him there.... Just like that way Caesar Milan does, calling it the "alpha rollover" or something..
Does Ceaser actualy do the alpha roll thing on a regular basis and promote it to be used the way the example above does. Mind you I've only seen 2 episodes of his show, but never once did he do an alpha roll or even mention it. He did do th finger bite thing with a hissing sound as a warning to the dogs, but nothing more then that. He also used the treadmill/walk meathod to burn of the dogs energ before he started training, which for some reason or another people always say that's bad but I dont get why.

I always get the feeling that people watch his show and then try his meathods, but they're not doing them correctly. The dogs on the show are the worst case scenarios that make good tv, they're not your bored destructive pet in the back yard that you neglected to train. They're not really "how to" guides for dog training.
 

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Oh yeah.. the other day I was talking to a woman who was training her Malinois puppy. The dog was only 6 months old and she was using a prong and an E Collar on it to "control her..." In her next breath she was complaining that the Malinois breed was not as "tough" as the German shepherd because her puppy was shutting down all the time.

Sometimes I want to ask people: "Hellloooo? Anyone home in their between the ears and behind the eyes???" The puppy, BTW was just beautiful tho acted scared or her owner..(gee I wonder why?)

Maybe by wrestling it down he earned the dogs respect, and by not hurting it after it was down and vulnerable he earned the dogs trust.
Or he scared the living daylihghts out of the dog and created a submissive peeing dog in the process (hopefully a male that will roll on his back and let loose with a 'fountain!').

I would put it in the 'don't try this at home category' but just because it isn't all about hugs, clickers and treats doesn't mean its not valid in the right circumstances. Dogs are animals; don't discount primal methods.
Pos. reinf. training is not all "hugs, clickers and treats... " it IS about thinking and intelligence on both the part of the trainer AND the dog..... and it is usually the inteligence of the trainer that is the questionable aspect of the partnership...

Oh.. but then I guess using the with-holding or the releasing of resources the dog finds valuable as a way to get the behavior you want really IS based in Primal Instinct and Methodology. Good support of Pos. Reinf. training Peppy264! thanks!:D
 

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Once again.. fear and respect are NOT the same thing.

His dog may have been "well behaved" due to being 'bitten' but the ends don't necessarily justify the means. I guess it depends on what well behaved means, having a dog that does nothing wrong for fear of punishment is not the same as a dog that does nothing wrong because you've taught him what to DO, not what NOT to do. Teaching new behaviours to a dog that is worried that he may be punished for doing wrong makes learning on behalf of the dog HARD.
This is evident in crossover dogs...dogs that have not been subjected to P+ learn faster, offer new behaviours faster and are EAGER to learn new things...dogs that are crossovers take twice as long to get to the point of personal confidence where they feel they can try new things. It's sad.

Hugs, clickers and treats. Sheesh, Peppy. Don't dismiss what you don't understand.
 

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The whole thing is kinda silly as I believe somebody biting "their puppy as hard as they could" would draw blood and doing it multiple times you at the very least would have a very warped or crippled puppy. I'm gonna go with an very macho exaggerated tall tale to share and impress the listeners in waiting room. A semi educated guess is that he probably talked loud enough for others to hear his warped program. Since joining DF I have stated a number of times that puppies just like babies can do no wrong, I think any mouth using puppy biters should be put to sleep, and not in a kindly way. Just my opinion.
 

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Love it.. but I am not sure WHO would be more warped.. the poor dog or the owner?????

BTW I wonder if he had issues with hair getting stuck between his teeth? Brings a whole new meaning to the need to brush AND floss....

"..puppies just like babies can do now wrong.." Hmm.. sounds like another Pos. Reinf. trainer to me ;) :D
 

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Does Ceaser actualy do the alpha roll thing on a regular basis and promote it to be used the way the example above does. Mind you I've only seen 2 episodes of his show, but never once did he do an alpha roll or even mention it. He did do th finger bite thing with a hissing sound as a warning to the dogs, but nothing more then that. He also used the treadmill/walk meathod to burn of the dogs energ before he started training, which for some reason or another people always say that's bad but I dont get why.

I always get the feeling that people watch his show and then try his meathods, but they're not doing them correctly. The dogs on the show are the worst case scenarios that make good tv, they're not your bored destructive pet in the back yard that you neglected to train. They're not really "how to" guides for dog training.
He uses the alpha roll pretty regularly to deal with aggressive dogs, but that's about the only time I've seen him use it. There is a pretty widely circulated case of him using it on a fearful dog on the show, but I've seen some things that claim the dog was aggressive as well and I'm not sure we're seeing the whole story either way.

There is a reason why the show has a disclaimer telling people not to try the stuff they see. It's just not productive or appropriate for the majority of dogs out there.
 

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I'm not gonna lie... I'm one of those people. When Callie was a puppy, she was a biter. I tried everything. Pushin her away, making a loud noise then putting her in "time out"... after about 2 months of my failed attempts, I gave up. She got me good one day, drawing blood after biting my hand... so I ninja-flipped her onto her back, then bit her ear.... and she stopped. She only bites when we're playing, and its really just a nip, or mouthing. :)
 
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