Puppy Forum and Dog Forums banner

1 - 20 of 58 Posts

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
7,366 Posts
Why are you looking at this particular breed? Given what I've seen you post here, your training methods are not going to work well at all with this breed.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,779 Posts
For Allegro, no obvious red flags. I like that their dogs are titled on both ends, and they do health testing. If I was looking for Lagotto, I would certainly consider them.

Lambscreek also looks promising with titles on both ends of several dogs, although I don't feel like checking the OFA site for their testing.

As mentioned though, as a breed, they don't tolerate heavy handed training techniques.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
234 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
I never asked how you felt my training methods would work out with this breed, did I?
Sick and TIRED of the rude comments.

thank you for your input Leo, I checked OFA and all of their dogs have been cleared.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
7,366 Posts
I never asked how you felt my training methods would work out with this breed, did I?
Sick and TIRED of the rude comments.

thank you for your input Leo, I checked OFA and all of their dogs have been cleared.
Alerting you that a breed will not tolerate correction based training is NOT rude, it's attempting to help both you and your future dog. Lagottos as a breed cannot handle correction based training. Not only will you end up frustrated, you could easily ruin the dog. If you're determined to use physical corrections, you should be looking into a breed that is known to be able to handle them.

Now I'm going to put my moderator hat on. When you post in a forum, people are free to comment based on the information you give. You do not get to dictate what they may or may not comment on. That is backseat moderating, and is expressly against the rules of this forum.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
234 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
I am more than capable of altering my training to work with a more sensitive breed. I have worked with countless Collies and Shelties, VERY sensitive dog breeds and they have been FINE with my training methods. I don't know how telling my Lagotto no or giving it a pop on the lead is going to ruin it? It's not, period.

when I post something Simply asking opinions on a breeder, I did not ask "how do you think balanced training will affect this dog?" No, I asked what's your opinion on this breeder. I am TIRED of every single post I make is somehow related to my training methods. Sorry that I'm not R+ or more positive, I am POSITIVE and NEGATIVE, and I'm not changing that. I will modify it, but not change it and my breed of choice will also NOT change my training, it will just modify my training. So for the love, please stop bringing my training methods into every single thread I make, because it's not needed. my question about breeders has nothing to do with my training, thank you.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
7,366 Posts
I am more than capable of altering my training to work with a more sensitive breed. I have worked with countless Collies and Shelties, VERY sensitive dog breeds and they have been FINE with my training methods. I don't know how telling my Lagotto no or giving it a pop on the lead is going to ruin it? It's not, period.

when I post something Simply asking opinions on a breeder, I did not ask "how do you think balanced training will affect this dog?" No, I asked what's your opinion on this breeder. I am TIRED of every single post I make is somehow related to my training methods. Sorry that I'm not R+ or more positive, I am POSITIVE and NEGATIVE, and I'm not changing that. I will modify it, but not change it and my breed of choice will also NOT change my training, it will just modify my training. So for the love, please stop bringing my training methods into every single thread I make, because it's not needed. my question about breeders has nothing to do with my training, thank you.
Then you aren't capable of modifying your training, are you? And no, you do not to dictate what people respond to on your threads, again. That is backseat moderating, and it is not tolerated. If you think a post is out of line, you can report it, but you may not tell people what they can and cannot post. This is your last warning on that.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
234 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
I am confused by what you mean.

I'll lay out a scenario of balanced training and you can let me know how you think a sensitive dog would handle this. Since Lagottos can't handle balanced training. Because I don't use harsh training, I used BALANCED training. I just modify that to the dog I am working with.

Lagotto pulls me towards a bird, who he/she wants to get to. So, I turn around and walk away from the bird. The dog can't see the bird, which is what the dog wants, therefore walking away from the bird = Punishment. After the dog is cooled down, we walk towards the bird again. The dog wants to watch the bird, so he/she doesn't pull this time. So I give the dog the treat and we sit and watch the bird. Treats + watching bird = Positive.

There's my example of balanced training with a sensitive dog, no prong, no e collar, no harsh handling.

Here is how I'll handle my dog, Deacon. Deacon pulls me towards a bird, I say no and pop his leash = Punishment. Deacon stops Pulling, I give deacon a treat and we watch the bird = reward

Here is how I handle Raleigh. Raleigh pulls towards a bird, I say no = Punishment. Raleigh is like oh ok and stops pulling. I give Raleigh a treat, and we watch the bird = positive

Notice the difference? Yes? both of those situations where balanced situations, but modified to the dog.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
7,366 Posts
You've literally stated in other threads that you depend on shock collars as a crutch to teach recall, lol.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
234 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
for my dogs that I own now, a Labrador/hound/pit bull and a poodle?? Not for the dogs I may have in the future, i've said MANY times that I change my training for the dogs im training. My DOGS use a e-collar because they aren't sensitive and they respond well. Would I use it on every dog I train? No. Sooo what else do you have to say
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
7,366 Posts
for my dogs that I own now, a Labrador/hound/pit bull and a poodle?? Not for the dogs I may have in the future, i've said MANY times that I change my training for the dogs im training. My DOGS use a e-collar because they aren't sensitive and they respond well. Would I use it on every dog I train? No. Sooo what else do you have to say
It's either a crutch, meaning you can't train without it, or it's not. I'm simply going on your previous statements, including ones where you insist that positive reinforcement doesn't work at all. And dial back the attitude there.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
234 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
a crutch, meaning you use it for a bit then you don't. I can train with or without it. I also DO insist that pure positive doesn't work, and you just stated you cannot determine what people say in threads, so no, I will not dial back the attitude when myself, and my training are being insulted. Again, its rude :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
34 Posts
a crutch, meaning you use it for a bit then you don't. I can train with or without it. I also DO insist that pure positive doesn't work, and you just stated you cannot determine what people say in threads, so no, I will not dial back the attitude when myself, and my training are being insulted. Again, its rude :)
I'm new here, so I've missed most of the previous comments. I won't comment on training methods, but I will say that when someone uses the word "crutch", I think of someone leaning on or depending on whatever it is they're talking about, so perhaps something is being lost in translation?

As for the OP, I don't see any red flags, but again, I'm relatively new to looking into breeders and really just learning.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
234 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
yes, leaning on/depending on something, and then phasing it out, yes? Are we on the same boat or am I speaking a different language?

I will say I trained Raleigh without an E-collar. Its deacon who I trained with a e-collar. Before we had a e collar Raleigh had full rein off leash because he always came back, and deacon wasn't allowed off leash, just on a long line. the e-collar allows him to do whatever he wants, with my piece of mind that he'll come back in the face of a major distraction (he's DA and will blow me off for a dog..). Its not like I'm not working on it. its just in place for now, a crutch.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
7,366 Posts
a crutch, meaning you use it for a bit then you don't. I can train with or without it. I also DO insist that pure positive doesn't work, and you just stated you cannot determine what people say in threads, so no, I will not dial back the attitude when myself, and my training are being insulted. Again, its rude :)
No one insulted your training, and when a moderator tells you to dial back the attitude, I suggest you listen. Enjoy your 7 day time out.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,503 Posts
Whatever breeder (or rescue/shelter) you get your next dog from, please be up front with them about your intention to use a shock collar, prong collar, leash pops, physical corrections, etc. They need to be aware of this so they can decide whether they have a dog for you that is amenable to your approach, just as they would consider your housing arrangements, other pets, etc.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,332 Posts
yes, leaning on/depending on something, and then phasing it out, yes? Are we on the same boat or am I speaking a different language?

I will say I trained Raleigh without an E-collar. Its deacon who I trained with a e-collar. Before we had a e collar Raleigh had full rein off leash because he always came back, and deacon wasn't allowed off leash, just on a long line. the e-collar allows him to do whatever he wants, with my piece of mind that he'll come back in the face of a major distraction (he's DA and will blow me off for a dog..). Its not like I'm not working on it. its just in place for now, a crutch.
I am sorta just posting this for any lurkers or future viewers.

A "DA" (Dog Aggressive) dog on an ecollar aks shock collar is a major nightmare.

First, if a dog starts to react on sight of another dog and is not securely leashed, it is a huge fright for the other owner and dog.

Second, depending on the other dog, many will recognize the difference between leashed and not leashed and react accordingly.

Third, if a DA dog does manage to encounter dog in physical proximity, the use of a shock collar serves to highten aggression and gives no quick access for the owner to remove their aggressive dog from an altercation or imminent altercation.

Triggering an ecollar when a dog is engaged in either tempting a fight or fighting leads the dog to think that the other dog is the cause of his pain and to react accordingly.

a DA dog on an ecoller in a public area risks injury not just to other dogs but to owners or bystanders who may try to stop a dog fight.
Aside from being dangerous, it can be illegal in cities/developed areas
 
1 - 20 of 58 Posts
Top