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I'm not quite so familiar with a Scott Type or Johnson Type APBT breed. But I never quite looked into lineage as I'm more interested in adopting a rescue pit.
They are ABs sorry for the confusion. I was using that as a comparison. They are different types but still considered the same breed. The same is true of the AST and APBT. Of course in either case if people so wished they could chose to split them and breed them as completely different breeds. The UKC still considers AST to be APBT and registers them as such. They can be bred together, just as both types of ABs are bred together. Those ABs are called hybrid types but it is more to describe that that the types/lines have been crossed rather then they are actually a cross breed of dog.

I briefly contemplated getting a puppy because again some sources say one should start with a puppy to make sure the dog is more loyal to you and its thus more trainable. I don't quite agree with that brand of wisdom, frankly. If I do adopt a pit in the next few years it'll be a rescue that gets along well with my Malinois.
No that isn't true at all. My older dogs are no more a pain then puppies I've got, it is all just depending on the dog and not so much the age they were when I got them. Besides I don't think it would make the dog more loyal to you. Sometimes they do bond very close to their family and wouldn't be happy away from them. Most adjust just fine though without any issue.

I've heard both that pits are very easy to train and that they're very difficult to train. I would imagine the former would be more true, because you'd want a controllable dog, especially one with that amount of physical strength. This is again logic based thinking. Strong dog = desire for controllability. An uncontrollable dog with that amount of brute power could really ruin the day of his handler.
They are very easy to train. Willingness to learn and please make for a dog that easily trains and obeys. Another reason why I don't see getting an older dog as bad. I've trained older dogs in a very short time, they learned quick and do as I say. Even within a couple of days already behaving different and continued on that same path. Within weeks you could have a different dog. It doesn't mean it will always be easy or that a dog you rescue won't have a specific issue that requires more time to work on. I think that if a child can train and control a Pit Bull it isn't terribly difficult, which is why I wonder how come so many people have dogs that go so terribly wrong. Most seems like they are just plain irresponsible to begin with.

A dogs strength or absence there of does not dictate how easy or difficult they are to train. How easy/difficult a dog is to train can be based on a few factors including how quickly they learn, biddability, ability to focus, how independence level.

If I have a 130lbs muscular, strong dog that learns what I want very fast and bends at my every whim they are not hard to train nor to control. (of which are 2 related but separate parts training and actually controlling) If I have a 20lbs dog, that is independent, stubborn and does not readily do as I wish they are not as easy to control nor are they so easy to get the end product of training. Especially if it may take more repetitions for them to even understand what it is that I want, though in some cases they might understand what I want they just don't care to do it.

How easy/difficult a dog is to train or control is not based on strength nor size.

Some say I should not have my dogs, because I am a small woman. Yet my dogs are not causing issues and I've known men who were not small at all fail to control their Pits or larger dogs. Not only through training/lack there of but even physically controlling the dog. As some say no matter how well trained the dog it is still an animal that can go against your wishes. True but then I know how to stop my dogs, I can as well physically control them. Where some big men fail at even doing that, though they have more physically strength then I. In the end does little good for them.

I'm sure volunteering at a Pit rescue at my next duty station where I'll probably have extended time in garrison would be helpful for increasing my knowledge of the breed.
That is great to hear. I bet you will enjoy it.

I've heard the term Pitbull can refer to the American Pitbull Terrier and American Staffordshire Terriers predominantly, but in legal terms can refer to such diverse breeds as the Boerbel, Dogo Argentino and Cane Corso among others. (This I know because a buddy of mine had to find housing off post at FT Riley because he had a Cane Corso and it was deemed a 'pitbull' by housing authority.) Thankfully my friend had enough money to get his own place out off post and was planning to do so anyway, but the post's BSL hastened his decision.
The issue is that while Pit Bull is applied to specific breeds a lot of breeds are similar physically to a Pit, at least somewhat. Some BSL names breeds and mixes of those but also states any breed that has the appearance of a Pit shall be deemed one in the opinion of the authoritative body. So a Lab could be mistaken for a Pit, if they think it looks like a Pit, then it is a Pit in their opinion.

There have actually been Lab, Boxer mix, American Bulldog all mistaken as a Pits under these laws and the owners have had to fight to prove their dogs are not Pits just because they have sturdy build, short coat and are muscular, ect.

Most often BSL does not actually consider those breeds Pit Bulls (Corso, Malinois, ect are usually names separately in BSL if other breeds is what it is truly meaning to ban). When they state any dog that fits the physical description of a Pit is one it can incorporate many breeds. This is very dangerous, in UK where APBTs are banned but SBTs are not, many SBT have still been taken as "illegal pit bulls" since they are closely related they can look a lot alike.
 
this is just an opinion based on personal experience of course..


but I think the reason people have such trouble with pits is that they are sensitive dogs. sensitive in the sense that they are eager to please, wildly exhuberant when they percieve they've done well and absolutely crestfallen when they think they have not been good..and that ties into whether or not an owner has been responsible.

for instance..I have a regular scheduale of when I take my dog out to play. Every time its that time and I pick up the leash she goes buckwild, dancing and jumping like "YES OMG YES WOOOHOOOO!!!"

but if im late or for some reason can't take her to play at the regular time she is like "whaddido!? omg NOOOO!" with tail tucked she will slink off into the corner..and if the cat tries to engage she will act like a bully (no pun intended) towards her...or start nosing things or knock something over....or start running through her repotoire of tricks and commands....as if desperate to get my attention in whatever manner nessecary and acting like she's grouchy now because she didn't do well and didn't get to go play.
 
Discussion starter · #85 ·
but I think the reason people have such trouble with pits is that they are sensitive dogs. sensitive in the sense that they are eager to please, wildly exhuberant when they percieve they've done well and absolutely crestfallen when they think they have not been good..and that ties into whether or not an owner has been responsible.
That's good to hear. So in theory the oldest members of my family (my grandparents) could deal with a pit?

My Malinois is equally as huge about soliciting play. But he tends to be more spontaneous about it. Usually he'll poke you with his snout whilst holding a tennis ball or similar toy. That's an irresistible cue to go out there and play.

So the recommendation of getting a female, maybe slightly younger than my present dog when the time comes is a good idea? I'd say one with a mellow temperment and calm disposition that clicks with Ninja?
 
That's good to hear. So in theory the oldest members of my family (my grandparents) could deal with a pit?

My Malinois is equally as huge about soliciting play. But he tends to be more spontaneous about it. Usually he'll poke you with his snout whilst holding a tennis ball or similar toy. That's an irresistible cue to go out there and play.

So the recommendation of getting a female, maybe slightly younger than my present dog when the time comes is a good idea? I'd say one with a mellow temperment and calm disposition that clicks with Ninja?
Do you see how the sensitivity thing can translate into trouble?


I definatly think primarily looking for a female is a good idea. there seems to be a slightly increased possibility of aggression between dogs of the same sex.

As for elderly people handling a pit...depends on the person and the particular dog. they ARE strong strong dogs...and if the dog goes into buckwild goofball mode, an elderly person might have issues. Children should NEVER be trusted to handle a pit without adult supervision IMO..they are very strong. but that really just generally goes for any larger/working breed.
 
I'm no breeder, but my dog is a pit/lab mix and is a joy.
She gets very defensive at little children (same height, maybe a dominance thing) and at 2-3 adults I've seen (including my dad, whom she loves...) and I worry, so we dont let her near them-but otherwise very lovable. Used to be scared of strangers, now will go up and want to play.

Yeah, I'm sure deep down on many of them, because they were trained to be aggressive in the past and by many now, they can have a defense attack in them....but, many, with the right training, will do fine. Now, pits from shelters, and there are a lot, usually have behavioral problems, and unless you know what you're doing, I wouldnt recommend it myself. I personally wouldnt because I wouldnt know how and I'm not very strong, so if I were to be walking one on a leash that's heavy and they went to attack, I may not be able to stop it. Maddie's 70 lbs and she'll get very excited and try to run to her daddy and I have a hard time walking her then. I can't pick her up, either.
 
That's good to hear. So in theory the oldest members of my family (my grandparents) could deal with a pit?
That is up to your grand parents and what they are like. Hard to determine someone's suitability without knowing them or much about them. Age is really not much of a factor, many senior people have Pits, some for decades and some for a shorter time. But not all people are cut out to handle them. Even if they are a younger person. They don't understand the responsibility or what you tell them could possibly happen until it does happen and if it is one of the bad scenarios it gets even worse because they freak out and panic.

If your grand parents are willing to learn about the breed and the responsibility that comes with it then in theory they should be able to handle it.

They should know
Never leave a Pit Bull unsupervised with another dog.
Not to let the Pit run off leash or keep them contained in another manner for potty/outdoor time. If they are in a fence not to leave them unsupervised in the yard.
How to use a breaking stick/separate a fight
How to prevent a fight (not always possible, I know, but at least how to the best of their ability)
Not to introduce your dog to random strange dogs

Those are just a few important things.

I've been handling these dogs since I was a child and not had any problems. Now I'm still not a very big person. I still plan to have them when I'm old and gray too. Knowledge, experience, research all those are very important, equally important (and sometimes more important) then actual size/strength of the person.

So the recommendation of getting a female, maybe slightly younger than my present dog when the time comes is a good idea? I'd say one with a mellow temperment and calm disposition that clicks with Ninja?
Same sex can get along swell, but it is widely recommended to get opposite because of the chance of same sex aggression.

I'm no breeder, but my dog is a pit/lab mix and is a joy.
She gets very defensive at little children (same height, maybe a dominance thing) and at 2-3 adults I've seen (including my dad, whom she loves...) and I worry, so we dont let her near them-but otherwise very lovable. Used to be scared of strangers, now will go up and want to play.

Yeah, I'm sure deep down on many of them, because they were trained to be aggressive in the past and by many now, they can have a defense attack in them....but, many, with the right training, will do fine. Now, pits from shelters, and there are a lot, usually have behavioral problems, and unless you know what you're doing, I wouldnt recommend it myself. I personally wouldnt because I wouldnt know how and I'm not very strong, so if I were to be walking one on a leash that's heavy and they went to attack, I may not be able to stop it. Maddie's 70 lbs and she'll get very excited and try to run to her daddy and I have a hard time walking her then. I can't pick her up, either.
Where did you get your dog?

Many Pits in shelters do have problems and many of them don't. But the Pits with problems doesn't mean all of them are aggression problems. Finding a dog in a shelter that suits the person might sometimes be a lot of work and take a long time but if they are careful and know what they are looking they should be ok. Getting a dog from a rescue or another source doesn't guarantee the dog won't have or develop aggression issues. So they need to be just as aware and know how to deal with it whichever way they go. I would recommend going to a shelter where the dogs are handled more and they do temperament testing. That helps to an extent to know what you are dealing with.

If you can hold your 70lbs dog I think you'd be ok with a Pit. Sure she doesn't want to attack instead is excited in a friendly matter but keeping control no matter the reason why the dog is pulling and acting up is still the same. Stopping an actual attack or fight is also more about skills then strength (though that helps). Even strong people may fail there or not be able to get it stopped quickly.
 
Spicy- I got my dog, a PIT mix from a shelter. I was saying what you said-if you know how to take care and train an aggressive dog/behavioral problem dog, then go ahead, if not, don't get that kind of dog until you build your way up.
 
Ok I was a little confused. When you said "I personally wouldnt because I wouldnt know how and I'm not very strong" I was thinking you wouldn't want to get a dog from a shelter, or more specifically a Pit. If you are saying without knowing what you are doing then that I think is a very good suggestion indeed. It was just how it is worded that confuse me. I think the OP would possibly make a good owner if they keep on the same road. Do you put pics of Maddie in the photos section? She is a very cute dog herself.
 
Discussion starter · #91 ·
That is up to your grand parents and what they are like. Hard to determine someone's suitability without knowing them or much about them. Age is really not much of a factor, many senior people have Pits, some for decades and some for a shorter time. But not all people are cut out to handle them. Even if they are a younger person. They don't understand the responsibility or what you tell them could possibly happen until it does happen and if it is one of the bad scenarios it gets even worse because they freak out and panic.
Well, as far as dog handling in general both my grandparents grew up on farms in the Phillippines where dogs are rather common. Sometimes they're working animals or half-ferals that are tolerated and often fed on the land. They handle my malinois well enough, and they've got my uncles and parents nearby to assist. I'd have to brief them exactly what to expect from a pit and train my pit to accept them as his other leadership too.

It was just how it is worded that confuse me. I think the OP would possibly make a good owner if they keep on the same road.
Well. I intend to make sure any dog, regardless of size or breed, is not only tractable but gets on amicably with his or her future housemates before being adopted into the family.

Interestingly enough I've seen pits/pit crosses in the Phillippines too. They are most likely descendents of dogs belonging to American soldiers stationed there from the 1890s all the way till the last US troops at various installations left in the mid-nineties. Local Filipino breeders accquired their own stock for various reasons. Sadly for dog fighting at times, but also they've bred quite a few family pets out of them too. These are mostly offhanded observations, however.

I've seen/heard of pit crosses on other Pacific islands as well. Hawaii's got quite a few of them.
 
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