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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
I'm tired of this- especially fighting my parents on the matter.
( my parents think Deacon, the dog in my pfp is a pit bull...)

So I decided to take my frustration out on some actual dog people-

I am SO tired of the pit bull mislabeling. There is no such thing as an umbrella term for dog BREEDS unless its things such as terrier, pointer, hound, etc. Saying that "pit bull" is a word used for a breed type is so dumb. It's like calling every solid black dog a Labrador, and every dog with short legs a Corgi.

And NO, not bred to be nanny dogs. As their name entails, the American pit bull terrier was bred for bull-baiting, and pit fights among dogs as entertainment. SOME are still genetically dog/animal aggressive due to their past- it's like breeding herding out of a collie-.. and sure these breed types and even the real APBT are good with kids, but it's stupid to leave your dog alone with your child, despite the breed.

So next time you see a "pitbull" rethink... is it? Or is it a Mutt...

Most of the dogs labeled as pit bulls are Staffordshire terrier mixes- where the broadhead comes from. APBTS have a slimmer head, large jawbones, and a slim body.
The Stafford was used in the creation of the APBT, but they are not the same breed.



263496
NOT A PIT BULL

263497
Pit bull (APBT)

Feel free to add any information that I may have missed, and any information I may have gotten wrong.
 

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After the Katrina mess in New Orleans, a prominent Rottie breeder went down there to help with dog rescue. Evidently the majority of the dogs needing help were pits (and almost all of those were heartworm positive). One thing she mentioned in reports on it was that many of them had true, or old, pit bull temperament, which evidently is aggressive to other animals but absolutely non-aggressive to humans. She mentioned that those old dog fighting men (hope they're all in some special place in hell) needed that for their own safety. I don't know if any of that's true, but it makes sense to me, and if today's pits, especially poorly bred ones, are now territorial and human aggressive, it wouldn't be the first time humans deliberately changed the temperament of a dog breed.

I'll have to admit from your pics of Deacon, I'd guess pit bull. And as a Rottie owner, I understand breed bias and prejudices. However, I also have some sympathy with it because too many people who know nothing and learn nothing get dogs from breeds because they're big, tough, or impressive. I can't tell you how many times when I've been out with one of my 85-pound well bred Rottie bitches some jerk comes up to me and asks if that's a puppy because it's so small and starts telling me about some other Rottie that's the size of a Saint Bernard. My answer is always, "Oh, I'm so sorry, is it terribly overweight or just poorly bred?" Not that that does any good, but I enjoy the look on the dummy's face.

My own experience with pit bulls is that while there may be nothing wrong with the dog, there's all too often a lot wrong with the owner. That's really what causes the prejudice against the dogs, and I'm not sure what can be done about it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
, and I'm not sure what can be done about it.
Posting things like this, educating the general public, etc. There will be nothing done if nobody does anything. I am an owner of what the general public calls the "pit bull". I feel that because I live with two bully breeds, that I am responsbile for correcting the public, and educating.
 

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I get where you are coming from and you have a point about "pit bull" being a catch all term.

But, it sorta IS an appropriate catch all term for dogs that do not have a known pedigree but fit the phenotype. APBT and AmStaffs have not been considered separate breeds for all that long and there is overlap. Dogs can be dual registered AKC and UKC. To specify one over the other without a known breeding is kinda hard.

Pit Bull type or Pittie is my preferred way to refer to the dogs who look and act like mine and yours.

One reason I don't separate the APBT and AST is that for people looking to rescue or adopt a rehome, they should not be considering them as different and should not be relying on any breed trait on paper but rather going into it knowing that landlords, homeowners and renters insurance, and local authorities will consider them one and the same.

I did Wisdom panel DNA testing on Eva, came back 87.5% AmStaff.
But the genetic testing doesn't separate out APBT

For practical purposes, I see APBT vs AST similar to something like saying working line vs show line GSD in that it is less about genetic differences and more about the individual dog line
 

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I own mutts. Right now, three, to be exact. And, two of those three most likely have some 'pit bull' dna swimming around in their gene pool. To me it's a big 'whatever'. In the past I have owned pure bred dogs, but at this point in my life my goals for dog ownership are - correct size (for my personal preference) & decent temperament. Whatever each individual dog brings to the table, and my life, as far as activities that we will pursue together is totally up to the dog. When I lose one of my current three, I will adopt a new/younger dog. When I lose another one, I will remain at two, since that is an extremely easy number to deal with. (Subject to change, obviously, but I'd really like to back off in numbers around here. Having three seniors is killing me with the vet bills!)

I guess my point is, I have no time or energy to waste worrying about whether or not my dogs are (or are perceived as) 'Pit Bulls' or mixes. Honestly, I don't care for the standard, blocky-head look, but favor an actual APBT, lean & athletic body type. The 'American Bully'? You couldn't pay me to own one. But at the end of the day, if one of my mutts comes across as a pit-mix to the general public? That's fine. People don't have to like my dogs, it only matters that I like them. (shrug) My crew - girls on the outsides are most likely my 'pit mixes', although we don't usually refer to them that way.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Your crew is really cute.

I ADORE a well bred American bully.. they are breathtaking. I am a very head savvy person :p I like a good looking head and expression.

The one on the left, the brown one does look to what society would lable as a pit where I live. If it where for adoption here, it would be "pit mix". Thats what deacon was Labelled as when I adopted him, and their Heads look very similar.

Its always been a issue to me, its a big pet peeve of mine. Yes- there might be some real pit in SOME of those dogs, but the likeyhood of a 80 pound dog being part pit is unlikely. I have a 80lbs Healthy weight dog who was Labelled as a pit bull and I know there isn't an ounce of pit bull in his DNA and it peeves me. I'm out for a walk and i get "oh what a pretty pittie" I kindly say no, he's a staffie mix, and continue walking.

here he is by the way - Name is zeus.

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There are a lot of American Bully dogs still registered as APBT. Transferring their registration to AmBully is up to the individual owners.

And when it comes down to it, there are different types of APBT, just like there are different types in other breeds (GSD, for example). An ADBA dog might not look like a UKC dog. A game bred dog can be anything from small, lean, and fine boned to a larger, heavier dog. And yes, game bred dogs are bred to be highly dog aggressive but not human aggressive.
 

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Yeah, that's Dinah. We're fairly certain she's about half pit/pit mix. Some people look at her and see nothing but pit bull. Others see nothing but hound/pointer. She does have more of a hound-y temperament, though she is fearful when it comes to unfamiliar men & doesn't care much for other dogs getting up in her space (although she's not reactive) and is the ongoing reason I am holding firm in saying "NO more fearful dogs" Managing her is exhausting at times. But, she's an awesome hiking buddy, so that more or less makes up for it! lol


 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
She's pretty

Pretty sure deacon is x hound. He's dog selective, and when we're on walks and he see's a dog he'll slow his gait and raise his hackles.. so some form of reactitivy.. He's exausting too, scared of men, especially large and tall men. He boofs and howls at them.. But he can also be super confident in himself.. depends on the day and how much work I've put in to him that month

And @Leo. Yes, there is variation in the APBT, Just like any dog. Like the GSD, Having several lines (my favorite is the west german WL heart eyes.. but that doesn't mean that the mixed breeds should be classified as pits, or pit mixes simply because there is variation in the breed istself. Because the dogs often see labeled as APBT very rarely look like any of the lines of APBT I've seen.
 

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Sadly the demonisation of these dogs through the media has led to much hatred and fear of any 'bull breed dog' , pit bulls, Am bulldogs, EBT included.

Personally Ive never had a problem with the dogs however sadly many of the owners are brainless hicks who want to look macho and think a strong dog will give them a pair of *. And dog fighting is repulsive and disgusting btw..

The BSL law in the Uk has seen so many innocent dogs classed as 'pitbull type' and murdered without them ever having set a foot wrong. Some dont have any pit in their DNA but because their head or body looks a certain way they are doomed.
It seems to me it shouldnt be about passing laws on the dogs but making sure they are in the hands of good owners.
 

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The BSL law in the Uk has seen so many innocent dogs classed as 'pitbull type' and murdered without them ever having set a foot wrong. Some dont have any pit in their DNA but because their head or body looks a certain way they are doomed.
It's all in the measurements apparently.

And that's the thing. Here in the UK, it doesn't matter whether a dog is a pit bull or not, if it looks like a pit, it's deemed to be a pit and seized. Could be a badly bred Staffordshire bull terrier, could be a bull breed mix.

So perhaps @Deacon.dog should count her lucky stars that her dog, whether considered pit bull or not, is not at risk of being seized and destroyed. Better to be annoyed at people's assumptions, than living in fear of them. ;)

I will say though, that it's not an automatic death sentence. Not now, anyway. Dogs are seized and kennelled while the case goes to court. If they're deemed to be safe, they are returned to their owners but severe restrictions are put in place;
Blue Cross BSL
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Pit bulls and breed types aren't banned here, and they wont be. I don't need to be counting lucky stars because im not one of the idiot pit bull owners.
 

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Pit bulls and breed types aren't banned here, and they wont be. I don't need to be counting lucky stars because im not one of the idiot pit bull owners.
You'd be surprised maybe at how many cities and localities in the US still ban pit bull types. And, they too use phenotype not genotype. Denver just overturned their 30 year long ban. Miami-Dade county still bans them (unless something recently changed that I can't find in the news). Most are less draconian about seizing the dog but may have fines and restrictions on public access, containment etc that has a severe effect.

Home owners insurance often does not cover pit bull types, and they are the ones to decide what counts as a pit type, not the owners (btw, State Farm does not breed descriminate unless required to by local law)

If you have a pit bull type dog, you need to be aware of local laws and restrictions even in the US.

I'm not sure what your intended meaning was in saying you are "not one of the idiot pit bull owners" but its not coming across how you (probably) meant it.

Owners of APBTs/ASTs come from all walks of life and all socio-economic levels. Because pit bull type dogs are so common, in turn, issues with their owners may be common but proportionate to their population overall. Personally, I find most pit type owners to be MORE considerate and attentive at things like leash laws because they know that their dog's actions can have ripple effects in a way that, say, a Beagle's actions are not likely to have
 
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