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hello, i am starting my own breeding of Pomeranian and i first bought a white male with blonde parkings from a friend who has been breeding poms for 30 years she sold him to me cheaper because she said he came to be bigger than she wanted he is 11 pds and two years old i fell in love with him with in a month he is very smart and even talks:) so i decided to go into the breeding business and just recently bought a red female she is also 2 and only weighs 6 pds i am wanting to beed her with boe-boe my 11 pd i didnt know that he was considered a throw back until reading the forums on this site my question is when i breed them will i still have a good quality pom? and do they sell for less? where he is over weight or is it possible that they can come out smaller like the female bridgette? also a month after having bridgette she had puppies by a 5 pd red boy but they came out 2 girls one is black and the other white and red and the boy is also white and red i was thinking of keeping the black female in hopes of breeding with boe-boe to make black and white which i believe are called parti poms? thank you for any help
 

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You shouldn't breed a larger male to a smaller female. You always want the male to be smaller, or a large pup might get stuck and kill her. I would hope that a breeder would know that. . .do you have a mentor? Have your dogs been tested for genetic illnesses and sexually transmitted diseases? There's a lot more to being a GOOD breeder (of course anyone can be a bad breeder and cause harm to animals) than just putting 2 dogs together.
 

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no i am new to this they have had there vet check ups and the vet said they are good healthy teeth but a mentor i do not have and seem to need one
 

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no i am new to this they have had there vet check ups and the vet said they are good healthy teeth but a mentor i do not have and seem to need one
Regular vet check ups are not the same thing as the testing that needs to be done before breeding two animals. I would look into getting a mentor, someone that has knowledge of the breed and is respected. You would need to get the animals Hips and Elbows Test, Heart Test, Eye Test, Brucellosis Test etc. It is expensive to breed dogs.
 

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If you are serious about being a breeder, you need to start with the best dogs you can get (not someone's cull who went oversized) and a good mentor who understands genetics and bloodlines. For instance, Parti comes from a piebald gene. Parti poms are generally considered out of standard, and not something good breeders breed for.
 

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no i am new to this they have had there vet check ups and the vet said they are good healthy teeth but a mentor i do not have and seem to need one

A "vet checkup" is not sufficient. You need to specifically check for heritable conditions that are common in the breed. I'm not sure what all is required in Poms, but I would think at least a CERF eye clearance (you need a specialist) and checking for luxating patellas.
 

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Poms are allowed in any color and pattern per the AKC standard.

Well first OP you need to learn your breed, and I would start by reading everything you can on the Pomeranian Club of America's website, including their Code of Ethics.

Vet checks are not what people are talking about, and really are worthless for breeding. What we are talking about are genetic health tests for things common in your breed. For Pomeranians there is

Luxating Patellas- Should be OFA'd
Hypothyrodism- Thyroid panel sent to appropriate lab
Congestive Heart Failure- there are tests for the heart preferably should be an Echo, but Auscultation is accepted
Eyes- should be CERF'd every year
Leggs Calves Perthes- Should be OFA'd
Hips- Should be OFA'd

Other common issues that can crop up, that there are no tests to my knowledge
Black Skin Disease
Seizures
Hypoglycemia
Collapsing Trachea
Alopecia X- currently under research

Breeding is expensive, it's not something you will make any money off of if you are doing it right, it will cost you more. It's not for the faint of heart, things happen, you can lose puppies, lose the mother dog, etc etc.

It is not recommended to breed a larger male to a smaller female, and really you should not be breeding an out of standard male, that is not good breeding. Poms should be between 3-7 pounds, with 4-6 being a preferred weight range. Read the standard, learn it, use it as a guideline.

Get a mentor, one that knows this breed through and through, one that is well respected and known. Please take your time to learn everything you can before you try this. Also your dogs should be proven in some venue, conformation would be great.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
okay thank you i do have another question the black pom puppys tail is short while the other two are long is this normal?
 

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The breeder may have docked him (for some reason?), he may have met with an accident as a young pup, or maybe he has the natural bobtail gene.
 

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Are they AKC registered? Have you ever breed before? Are you aware of all of the complications that can come from this? I own a male and female pom, and they have a TON of potential medical issues. Are you prepared to offer health warranties, as well as taking back puppies if they are not fully healthy.

Breeding a pomeranian of that size is not a good idea. You should only breed a male that is between 4 to 8 pounds, and the female should ALWAYS be larger than the male, but never OVER 9 ounds.

You really need to do GOOD research, and find a reputable breeder to mentor you. I don't have the experience in breeding to offer help, but I can answer most questions about health issues and care for the pomeranians.

Please don't become a breeder if you are not prepared to spend the money and NOT gain a profit. A good breeder does not get a profit from their dogs.
 

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To clearify the pom coloring as well,

If you are looking to breed and sell SHOW dogs, a black pomeranian (considered blue) is not a show quality. The AKC, unless they changed it in the past few months, does not allow black/blue poms in the ring. Just an FYI.

Poms are my number one breed, I have owned SEVERAL, and I am a die hard with them. :)
 

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You shouldn't breed a larger male to a smaller female. You always want the male to be smaller,.
This is not true Willowy, in the vast majority of dog breeds the males are almost always larger than the females. It's only when you have a significant size difference that it becomes and issue. For example, Lark will likely end up being around 35 pounds and Hawk is around 52 pounds there is no size danger in me breeding them and their size range is pretty normal for a breeding pair in my breed.
 

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Also, please be aware that there is no such thing as a "toy", "miniature" or "teacup" pomeranian. They are all just Pomeranians. I am only offering up information that I know personally, so I don't mean to come off rude or "know it all" but these are all things that I know, through my 10 years of owning, training, and helping with breeders.
 

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To clearify the pom coloring as well,

If you are looking to breed and sell SHOW dogs, a black pomeranian (considered blue) is not a show quality. The AKC, unless they changed it in the past few months, does not allow black/blue poms in the ring. Just an FYI.

Poms are my number one breed, I have owned SEVERAL, and I am a die hard with them. :)
Have you read the standard? As I stated above the standard states all colors and patterns are acceptable. I have seen black poms (and no they are not blue that is a separate color, derived from black though) in the ring. The standard hasn't been changed since 1996.

Well just look it up, the number 5 pom in the country is a solid black.
 

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You shouldn't breed a larger male to a smaller female. You always want the male to be smaller, or a large pup might get stuck and kill her. I would hope that a breeder would know that. . .do you have a mentor? Have your dogs been tested for genetic illnesses and sexually transmitted diseases? There's a lot more to being a GOOD breeder (of course anyone can be a bad breeder and cause harm to animals) than just putting 2 dogs together.
A large pup can get stuck no matter the size of the male/female. They say to allow the female to be larger so that she can carry more pups, and the size normally spawns from the father in pomeranians. Thus, the smaller the father, the smaller the pups.

HOWEVER, it should not EVER EVER be breed if it is smaller than 3 pounds, and even at 3 pounds you are looking at having unhealthy pups. Ideally, you should aim for having pups between 4 to 7 pounds, so the parents should both be in the range.
 

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Have you read the standard? As I stated above the standard states all colors and patterns are acceptable. I have seen black poms (and no they are not blue that is a separate color, derived from black though) in the ring. The standard hasn't been changed in a long while.


Yes, I have read the standard, and I had 2 black poms that were not showable because they were black. I am researching this right now, and I included blue because most people don't know that there is a blue AND a black. This was at least 9 years ago though, so I do stand corrected, that they include black now. I apologize.


I was only attempting to offer up information that I knew, from experience. I did not look at the updated information, so that is my mistake. I will willingly admit when I have given wrong information :)

In 2006, I was denied showing rights by the AKC because they were black. So I will be looking into this further, as it was stated on the site that blacks and blues were not allowed to be shown, I want to say... 2 years ago. (that was the last time I looked).

Either way, I'm happy to see that Blacks can be in the ring now.
 
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