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In our class it was 2o2o in one class with the A-frame, 2o2o with the dog walk, full A-frame, full dog walk. This is over 4 weeks. I had no doubt my confident boys could do it. But the way you described it, more backchaining and taking it more slowly, or a fully FLAT obstacle gradually raised, is how I would have done it as a trick trainer...

I just feel like there is no reason this should have happened, at all, in a for-fun class. Or any class...
 

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In our class it was 2o2o in one class with the A-frame, 2o2o with the dog walk, full A-frame, full dog walk. This is over 4 weeks. I had no doubt my confident boys could do it. But the way you described it, more backchaining and taking it more slowly, or a fully FLAT obstacle gradually raised, is how I would have done it as a trick trainer...

I just feel like there is no reason this should have happened, at all, in a for-fun class. Or any class...
You're absolutely right. It's a bad thing no matter what the purpose of the class.

In a for fun class, it's not fun so you've gained nothing and scared the crap out of a dog. In a competition type class you've gained nothing, scared the crap out of the dog, and have created performance issues. It's just unnecessary and ridiculous and dangerous and sad.

And yeah, definitely more slow. Kiran may or may not get there before the class fully does because I own an a-frame but probably it'll take the full 7 weeks of beginner class/the next session to get the thing up to height after back chaining with it lowered.
 

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Nice runs Sibe! Congrats.

On the topic of 2o2o and raising equipment.. we start off on board stubbed and rubberized as a dog walk contact. We then lean the board on a table. Then they are introduced to the lowest possible setting on an A-frame/and/or dog walk. We work on our 2o2o criteria and slowly raise the equipment. When I say slowly.. I mean like close to a year or more to reach full height. Same with weave closure (channel weaves) and jump heights. Especially when most of the dogs in class are puppies/teenagers when they start.

Mini rant: I want to see top trainers with breeds other than Border Collies. I know they are hard to handle and drive fast.. but come on! Of course you look good steering one of those things. Do the same thing with a Dalmatian or something. :p
 

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Mini rant: I want to see top trainers with breeds other than Border Collies. I know they are hard to handle and drive fast.. but come on! Of course you look good steering one of those things. Do the same thing with a Dalmatian or something. :p
I hear ya. I run a border collie in our class sometimes though and there's just nothing like it. Turns on a something smaller than a dime, slides over the jumps, sends out and pulls in so naturally. It's like he's on a bungee cord.

We also got QQ #7 on Sunday :D
Standard, where she was VERY confused entering the ring then having to turn around. I could not get her turned to face the jump!!! Ended up sideways and called it good enough.
https://www.facebook.com/beyondblond/videos/10104426541292753/


JWW
https://www.facebook.com/beyondblond/videos/10104426826930333/
 

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I hear ya. I run a border collie in our class sometimes though and there's just nothing like it. Turns on a something smaller than a dime, slides over the jumps, sends out and pulls in so naturally. It's like he's on a bungee cord.
Oh yeah they are FUN to run. I don't compete and never will with Ember.. but she is a blast to run in class. I know experienced agility people crave that speed and quick steering. I just get tired of everything being about the Border Collies.

I envy that you have run Huskies and do it well!

Update on Kai in classes/competing: We are experience ring/and pre-entering ring stress and working on it. I've never felt the need to build toy drive more than now. So that's what we are doing with treat holding tugs and I can already tell she loves tugging away the frustrations. We'll see if it has helped at our AKC trial next weekend.
 

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There was a guy at the trial this weekend running an Airedale. I went out of my way to compliment him. It's always nice seeing terriers, hounds, nordic breeds. Dogs that aren't BCs, Aussie, shelties, and goldens. (I will edit to say, there is of course nothing wrong with running a herding breed or golden, and having a border collie doesn't mean your agility life is necessarily easier! Every dog has their own quirks and challenges, and we all have metaphorical obstacles to overcome in our training and trialing experiences.)
 

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There was a guy at the trial this weekend running an Airedale. I went out of my way to compliment him. It's always nice seeing terriers, hounds, nordic breeds. Dogs that aren't BCs, Aussie, shelties, and goldens. (I will edit to say, there is of course nothing wrong with running a herding breed or golden, and having a border collie doesn't mean your agility life is necessarily easier! Every dog has their own quirks and challenges, and we all have metaphorical obstacles to overcome in our training and trialing experiences.)
All of this.

I mean Kylie's easier to run than Molly for numerous reasons :)P) and I appreciate people not assuming it's easy with her because she's fast, responsive, and smart/biddable (also get sick of Kylie being massive underestimated, but that's another post complete).

That said, holy heck I like seeing some variety, too. We're pretty heavily dominated by BCs, aussies, and labs. The 'different' dogs, even the ones that are mixes of the more known ones, keep it interesting and I delight in them being out there! And tell the owners so!
 

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My instructor's first agility dog was a Husky. She almost had a MACH on her (the dog ended up tearing an ACL, but not in agility, and had to be retired). She also ran a Vizsla and a Border Collie. And she frequently steps in and runs other people's dogs at trials when they've signed up but can't go. It's nice working with someone who can work with all sorts of dogs!

The first dog I ran was a slow BC/Golden mix (she looks like a small black Golden Retriever). Super fun but SUPER slow and hilarious to watch. Now I run a "Sprollie" (BC/Springer mix) who is much more what you expect out of an agility dog, but is absolutely ridiculously goofy and takes nothing seriously. He does great and people love to watch him because he's so silly. And I will tell you, he may be what you expect out of an agility dog but he has his own challenges! He's so fast and response that sometimes it's hard to get up ahead of him and just one tiny wrong move and he's going the wrong way. My other dog was much more forgiving!
 

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I really enjoyed MrsBoat's videos of her rotties Ocean and Lars doing agility. Haven't seen her here in a while. But you don't see rotties too often and it's so much fun watching them. Tons of power.

Brae and I are continuing on in our agility class. He's doing really great. I still notice my instructor does not adjust things and 'makes' her setup work. For example, we did all this work with 2x2 weave poles and I thought "awesome. I've always wanted to go start to finish with this method." And then all of a sudden we are doing a more guided style. Except, we are using barrels and fences to create the guides. The idea is we've done barrel work so the dog will learn to use the barrels to turn around the weave poles (I don't buy it). All of which would have been alright by me... EXCEPT, our barrels are cloth laundry hampers. Even before our first attempt I looked at them and thought "Brae's gonna crash through them." And sure enough, he did, repeatedly. So over the last two weeks that we did this, I've had to lag behind to slow him down through the weaves, and then he sometimes gets them. But I'm losing speed, and footwork is all about speed...

So I am borrowing some weave-o-matics from my shelter and doing those outside of class :D That method (and 2x2s) is much more suited for his crash course style.
 

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I really enjoyed MrsBoat's videos of her rotties Ocean and Lars doing agility. Haven't seen her here in a while. But you don't see rotties too often and it's so much fun watching them. Tons of power.

Brae and I are continuing on in our agility class. He's doing really great. I still notice my instructor does not adjust things and 'makes' her setup work. For example, we did all this work with 2x2 weave poles and I thought "awesome. I've always wanted to go start to finish with this method." And then all of a sudden we are doing a more guided style. Except, we are using barrels and fences to create the guides. The idea is we've done barrel work so the dog will learn to use the barrels to turn around the weave poles (I don't buy it). All of which would have been alright by me... EXCEPT, our barrels are cloth laundry hampers. Even before our first attempt I looked at them and thought "Brae's gonna crash through them." And sure enough, he did, repeatedly. So over the last two weeks that we did this, I've had to lag behind to slow him down through the weaves, and then he sometimes gets them. But I'm losing speed, and footwork is all about speed...

So I am borrowing some weave-o-matics from my shelter and doing those outside of class :D That method (and 2x2s) is much more suited for his crash course style.
Maybe the school doesn't have enough money to buy good guides? We actually used thin PVC pipe frames with chicken wire as guides because a lot of the stuff we use is homemade at our school. There's just not a lot of money to invest in better equipment sometimes, so where we can go cheap, we do, and save for the the things that need to be solid like contacts.

Depends on the dog, too. Some people say the guides work best, some use other methods. I liked the guides, personally. But hampers probably isn't going to work too well, lol.
 

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I have a lovely Toller in my class that is just as crazy as a BC and I love to watch her run. I want an agility Toller someday.

I do miss seeing Ocean and Lars videos.. they could tear up the course! I also wonder what ever happened the OP of this thread with Kit.
 

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I remember reading this whole thread before I started agility. It’s massive but an absolute gold mine for agility theory and problem solving.

I do wonder what’s happened to some of the posters who have come and gone in this thread and if they continued on with agility. I’ve only posted a couple of times in it but I’ve lurked for a long time.

I definitely miss seeing videos of some of the dogs. The Lars and Ocean vids inspired me because they showed that even big dogs can be very speedy and do really well on a course.
 

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For what it's worth, I follow some people via FB or other forums - Ocean is still very much killing agility courses. The original author of this thread I ran across a post from a while back on a BC forum. Kit is gone, but she adopted another rescue dog and I believe was going to be doing agility with it.
 

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Also weave methods are all over the place. Everyone's got a favorite. Some take different equipment, some take none, some are more popular or 'on trend' at a given moment.

I've taught all of my dogs through a combination of luring and shaping with 2x2 for entries, and I've never regretted it. Except with Kylie where it was less method and more protracted, slow, experimentation because I didn't know wtf I was trying to accomplish, really.
 

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Aww that's a shame about Kit. :( I know it has been a long time though. I wish I had more FB contact with the members but I don't like to feel "stalky" and add them. haha.

I like channels for class settings because they are the easiest and fastest to teach in them. I like them for my own dogs because they build speed. They need more proofing on entries. I've really just haven't gotten into 2x2. I don't know why. Maybe because it is so time consuming and complicated. I've done them.. just, meh for me. But so many people love them and for a good reason.
 

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I love that there are so many methods! I don't love that I couldn't pick a different one in class when the one presented wasn't the best option for my dog.
 

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I love that there are so many methods! I don't love that I couldn't pick a different one in class when the one presented wasn't the best option for my dog.
I think to SOME degree, this is the hazard of group classes. My instructor is awesome about letting people do their own thing, or providing guidance to work with dogs who need another method - but it's still a group class, and the facility is what it is, the equipment is what is there, and the time she's got is limited. Still tons of adaptation but her suggestion might be 'let's work on this in a private' or 'hold off on this for now, maybe, until we can work it another way'. Or try to find a way to make it work better.

Now, you get her 1 on 1 in a private lesson and she'll not only recognize that something isn't working for you and/or your dog, she'll have a really good read on it and a bunch of suggestions.

That said, she doesn't do weaves in class with the rest of the equipment at all. It's a separate class or you figure it out yourself. Apparently her experience says once a week for a few minutes a week just isn't enough (and there's not enough time to really adapt/change things within a class setting).

So basically about 4 things your instructor could do there and just... isn't.
 

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Aww that's a shame about Kit. :( I know it has been a long time though. I wish I had more FB contact with the members but I don't like to feel "stalky" and add them. haha.

I like channels for class settings because they are the easiest and fastest to teach in them. I like them for my own dogs because they build speed. They need more proofing on entries. I've really just haven't gotten into 2x2. I don't know why. Maybe because it is so time consuming and complicated. I've done them.. just, meh for me. But so many people love them and for a good reason.
2x2s bore the ever loving crap out of me. I like them for entries, sure. AFTER the dog weaves. Otherwise I recognize they're probably awesome and I'm going to be over here with my 'lure assisted/prompted shaping'.

Though in fairness, I am experienced with that and know how to do it now.

I broke the 'commonly accepted rules and started shaping him with 6 about 10 months old. One, single, solitary pass of 6 in a day, a couple of days a week. No drilling, no repetition. My goal was for him to get it about a year and be able to do 12, and then start adding speed and independence.

A-) Nailed it.

B-) I KNOW what the rules are and why you wait, and I also know why I didn't wait until 12 months and mitigated the risks with lack of repetition, irregular sessions, no speed, and the fact that honestly medium dog at 10 months and hadn't gained height in well over a month, anyway.

C-) NO ONE ELSE DO THIS.

So basically, now we work entries and independence for the next 6 months. Or 10 years, depending.
 

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Neat! I was going to get Brae going too early (according to agility people). But I laid some nice footwork with the weave-o-matic at a low angle. It is currently a V (pretty much exactly like the letter as it's typed) and I am in no rush. But I have no qualms about him learning weaves. Soro is such a champ. I randomly asked him to do the weaves straight up and he still remembers it, despite no longer having the speed or footwork. I think Sor learned it within 6 weeks of regular practice back in the day.
 
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