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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
There are some questions I have at the end of this post, so you can skip this rant if you want. I am just getting it off my chest. I'll put the rant in Italic so you can skip it.

Last night I took Luna out to do the usual before bed walk when - out of nowhere - a pitt bull ran in and tried to grab Luna. I am night blind and it was pretty dark, so I only saw the dog when she was at about 5m at a full sprint. She was so focussed on Luna that she seemed to not know I was there, and I somehow managed to jump in front of her and shout "ai!" before she got to Luna. This gave her a fright and she turned on her heel and sprinted back to the bushes.

This has happened before! The freaking neighbors from across the street (I don't know which house they live in, but I am planning to find out soon) keep letting this Pitt out and run about the neighborhood on this crazy rant! My boyfriend was so angry, he said he would get the dog (he was mad and had gotten a fright) but I am more p*ssed off with the owners than the dog. Argh! I am sick of people being so irresponsible. My dog isn't the only one in the neighborhood. :/


Anyway, also a few opinions and advices I'd like to ask for about 12 week old Luna.

1. Luna eats a lot one day and very little the other. Her father is a Berner Sennen, and her mother an Appenzeller x Golden Retriever. Any advice? She's not underweight and has usually got no problems defecating, and has only thrown up once since we got her. EDIT: we've been to the vet and she is healthy, they say. I'd just like your view and experience with these things.

2. Luna has discovered a bark. Yes, one loud bark. I will be sitting working on my laptop, and she (especially in the evening) will stare at me, and then bark this really loud, shrill bark that makes me jump. I honestly don't know how to handle it without getting irritated, because I tried ignoring it (my boyfriend is good at that) but I absolutely hate loud sounds. Any tips?

3. I walk Luna two times a day for 45 minutes. I change where we go. Sometimes to the dog park, sometimes to the forest - but 2x a day is the norm, and sometimes during the midday I'll take her with me to wherever I am going or walk her again. I am home nearly all the time, but I also do my own thing. She has a kong, a knotted tug of rope, chewy bully sticks and a pillow that she likes to play with - but she seems to sometimes get bored. She will push the rope on the couch and stare at me (I play with her on and off for 15 minute intervals - but also need to do other things) and she will start biting my feet or hands. I get a little irritated (yes, it hurts) so I try my best at redirecting her, although then she learns that by biting my feet she'll get attention.

So... if you guys have advice or criticism, PLEASE let me know. I want to raise her as best as I can, and even though I've never lived without dogs I've never had to raise one without companions (other dogs).

Thank you for any responses.

EDIT: I should also add that my father always had strict disciplining techniques like holding the dog in the scruff of the neck and pushing them to the floor or on their backs when they really misbehaved. I don't usually use these techniques myself, unless she really hurts me with biting or something. BUT - let me know what you guys do. There's no need to tell me what not to do, please... I will read your posts of what you DO do, and try out some of those techniques. I am open to anything, but will also see how it works for me and Luna.

I should also add (as has been mentioned below) that I have been training dogs for a long time. I just want to expand my horizons, and ask these questions not because I know nothing, but because I am interested in knowing more or perhaps even different techniques. So lay off the "but you said you trained dogs" thing... yes I did, just doing this out of reasons I just mentioned.
 

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There are some questions I have at the end of this post, so you can skip this rant if you want. I am just getting it off my chest. I'll put the rant in Italic so you can skip it.

Last night I took Luna out to do the usual before bed walk when - out of nowhere - a pitt bull ran in and tried to grab Luna. I am night blind and it was pretty dark, so I only saw the dog when she was at about 5m at a full sprint. She was so focussed on Luna that she seemed to not know I was there, and I somehow managed to jump in front of her and shout "ai!" before she got to Luna. This gave her a fright and she turned on her heel and sprinted back to the bushes.

This has happened before! The freaking neighbors from across the street (I don't know which house they live in, but I am planning to find out soon) keep letting this Pitt out and run about the neighborhood on this crazy rant! My boyfriend was so angry, he said he would get the dog (he was mad and had gotten a fright) but I am more p*ssed off with the owners than the dog. Argh! I am sick of people being so irresponsible. My dog isn't the only one in the neighborhood. :/


Anyway, also a few opinions and advices I'd like to ask for about 12 week old Luna.

1. Luna eats a lot one day and very little the other. Her father is a Berner Sennen, and her mother an Appenzeller x Golden Retriever. Any advice? She's not underweight and has usually got no problems defecating, and has only thrown up once since we got her. EDIT: we've been to the vet and she is healthy, they say. I'd just like your view and experience with these things.

2. Luna has discovered a bark. Yes, one loud bark. I will be sitting working on my laptop, and she (especially in the evening) will stare at me, and then bark this really loud, shrill bark that makes me jump. I honestly don't know how to handle it without getting irritated, because I tried ignoring it (my boyfriend is good at that) but I absolutely hate loud sounds. Any tips?

3. I walk Luna two times a day for 45 minutes. I change where we go. Sometimes to the dog park, sometimes to the forest - but 2x a day is the norm, and sometimes during the midday I'll take her with me to wherever I am going or walk her again. I am home nearly all the time, but I also do my own thing. She has a kong, a knotted tug of rope, chewy bully sticks and a pillow that she likes to play with - but she seems to sometimes get bored. She will push the rope on the couch and stare at me (I play with her on and off for 15 minute intervals - but also need to do other things) and she will start biting my feet or hands. I get a little irritated (yes, it hurts) so I try my best at redirecting her, although then she learns that by biting my feet she'll get attention.

So... if you guys have advice or criticism, PLEASE let me know. I want to raise her as best as I can, and even though I've never lived without dogs I've never had to raise one without companions (other dogs).

Thank you for any responses.

EDIT: I should also add that my father always had strict disciplining techniques like holding the dog in the scruff of the neck and pushing them to the floor or on their backs when they really misbehaved. I don't usually use these techniques myself, unless she really hurts me with biting or something. BUT - let me know what you guys do. There's no need to tell me what not to do, please... I will read your posts of what you DO do, and try out some of those techniques. I am open to anything, but will also see how it works for me and Luna.
I'm a tad confused as I read one of your replies below on another thread.

Nope... at the SPCA I helped with the dog/horse rehabilitation as a trainer and handler. I did have moments then where I didn't really fear the dog, but I was a bit unsure about how the situation would turn out which had me quite tense. The dogs with issues can have some serious problems especially that some can become unpredictable.
Just curious, of course maybe I misunderstood the reply.
 

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Discussion Starter #3 (Edited)
I helped in the rehabilitating of dogs (and horses) at the SPCA but am curious at the opinions out there about different techniques. Right now I am in the Netherlands (so I am not at the SPCA anymore) and it seems that with my first dog on my own I am a little insecure about if I am doing things right and would like to expand on my knowledge. And since there are knowledgeable people on the forum, I was curious to see how others would handle the situation. It is not like I can not handle it - or that she is being problematic, for that matter. I've had many people amazed at how much she already knows and how many manners she already has. And how calm she can be. There are only a few things I wonder (especially because I haven't been doing so well psychologically lately and find it difficult to stay calm and balanced and 'know' what to do as I usually do) how people on this other forum would handle it... always looking to expand my horizons.

edit: I just added a note at the bottom of my thread... perhaps it makes things more clear. I read it and understand it may be confusing to read in contrast to my working with the SPCA.

thanks

p.s can you tell me anything about the picture formats? Am struggling with my signature and the photo's.
 

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There are only a few things I wonder (especially because I haven't been doing so well psychologically lately
Curiosity answered and don't feel alone on the above.

With new pup just relax and let common sense be your guide, as far as neighbor in the states a cattle prod would do wonders to stop charging dog in tracks quickly. Not sure what can be used in Netherlands. I also might take cattle prod over to neighbor and give him/her a little buzz.

As far as eating, some dogs eat to live and others live to eat. As long as weight is good not too much to worry about. With pups I prefer to worm them myself as I'm not a big fan of fecal checks. Sometimes a pup with worms can have some appetite problems. Do not, I repeat do not take this advice as something you should do it's just method I used, if in doubt check with a vet 1st rather than online advice.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Thank you for the advice. She has been dewormed (only two days ago) and has been okay as far as I could tell... I agree with cattle prodding the neighbors, even though over here the one person has more rights than the next and with a country with such a low crime rate, the smallest things that happen are the biggest issues. So cattle prodding a neighbor - or even their dog - definitely may be followed with a court case as extreme as that may sound. I can't wait until Peter is done studying so we can move. -.-

I will try to relax. I've been in a bit of a dark place in my life, but I still want the best for little Luna. I just want to be that perfect owner, but right now keep doubting my ability to give her the perfect life. I've never had this with our Rotties, I always found it 'easy' to raise a well behaved, friendly but playful and individual dog. Now I am just doubting everything. :(

What is this Dinosaur Dog Training that I see, though? Is it an organization?

Thanks for the help and words of wisdom. :)
 

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Well, the perfect life sounds good but is pretty unattainable for man or beast. When trying to accomplish such a lofty goal you set yourself up for failure.

How about just regular feed/care/training for pup, toss a little love in and he will be fine.

No I am the Dinosaur Dog Trainer, 50 years and 90 breeds trained just the oldest trainer on DF not necessarily the brightest just the longest. (oh, still learning)
 

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2. Luna has discovered a bark. Yes, one loud bark. I will be sitting working on my laptop, and she (especially in the evening) will stare at me, and then bark this really loud, shrill bark that makes me jump. I honestly don't know how to handle it without getting irritated, because I tried ignoring it (my boyfriend is good at that) but I absolutely hate loud sounds. Any tips?
Teach the "Quiet" command. Like teaching most commands, start with lots of tasty little treats. As first, don't actually say the command. Simply have the treats ready and when she's barking, wait for any quiet (even just a 2 second pause) and immediately treat (or click and treat if you use clicker training). Over and over, slowly expecting a longer quiet time. If the dog really gets barking, you can make a strange loud sound (like a meep, yelp or just any thing odd to distract her) and that should get her to pause her barking, then you treat. Once she gets the connection between not barking and getting a treat, you can add the command "Quiet". What I do is as soon as she is quiet, I say "Quiet" as I give the treat. The command marks the behavior as she is doing the correct behavior. After awhile, you should be able to tell her Quiet when she starts barking and have her actually be quiet.

1. Luna eats a lot one day and very little the other. Her father is a Berner Sennen, and her mother an Appenzeller x Golden Retriever. Any advice? She's not underweight and has usually got no problems defecating, and has only thrown up once since we got her. EDIT: we've been to the vet and she is healthy, they say. I'd just like your view and experience with these things.
If she is healthy per the vet, it might just be related to how much exercise she gets, how much water she drinks and how hot or cold it is. As long as she is gaining weight like she should and doesn't really go off her food, I don't see it as a problem.

She has a kong, a knotted tug of rope, chewy bully sticks and a pillow that she likes to play with - but she seems to sometimes get bored. She will push the rope on the couch and stare at me (I play with her on and off for 15 minute intervals - but also need to do other things) and she will start biting my feet or hands. I get a little irritated (yes, it hurts) so I try my best at redirecting her, although then she learns that by biting my feet she'll get attention.
I'd use an exercise pen to contain her but still keep her in the room with you; visible and safe but unable to get too pushy for attention.

Last night I took Luna out to do the usual before bed walk when - out of nowhere - a pitt bull ran in and tried to grab Luna. I am night blind and it was pretty dark, so I only saw the dog when she was at about 5m at a full sprint. She was so focussed on Luna that she seemed to not know I was there, and I somehow managed to jump in front of her and shout "ai!" before she got to Luna. This gave her a fright and she turned on her heel and sprinted back to the bushes.
If the dog turned tail and ran at a sharp noise/shout, she can probably be scared off again. You could carry a bike horn or noisemaker maybe. If you can find the owners, try to find out if the dog is actually dog aggressive or just playful and ill-mannered. You say she "tried to grab Luna" but could she simply have been going "oh yay, doggie!"? I had my foster pit bull ALSO NAMED LUNA (just to make this less confusing) get loose (collar broke) early on in her stay with me and she ran to play with this big lab and she jumped on him like she would jump on Chester; the lab was happy to play, Luna was happy to play, the Lab's owner freaked out and started screaming that Luna (at 40 lbs) was trying to kill her Lab (at easily 100 lbs). It was dark (we were on a group night hike) and it made it harder to see that their body language was fine and Luna's open mouth play biting was truly play biting. I could see it, other people could see it but the owner was panicking too much.
That said, if the dog is actually aggressive, you could try carrying a walking stick or a trekking pole.
 

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If the dog turned tail and ran at a sharp noise/shout, she can probably be scared off again. You could carry a bike horn or noisemaker maybe.
I agree with this. Having owned a severely DA dog, I can say that most dogs that are DA are not also HA, so usually inserting yourself between the two dogs will work, unless you wait until biting has already started. Then you're likely to get a redirected bite. I get myself between the two dogs, spread by arms out a bit, stamp one foot and yell "GO!" Most of the time, that works.

I also use the "quiet" command as taught above. Plus, luna is a foster, right? It's not unusual for dogs to suddenly find their voice after a while in a home and then use it inappropriately for a while. It's like a baby figuring out how to make a certain sound. They figure out "da" and then they won't stop saying it for a while. So Luna may stop with the random barking on her own after a while.

I should also add that my father always had strict disciplining techniques like holding the dog in the scruff of the neck and pushing them to the floor or on their backs when they really misbehaved. I don't usually use these techniques myself, unless she really hurts me with biting or something.
Violence begets violence. If she's playing and hurts you, she just needs to be taught bite inhibition, which is not taught through alpha rolls (what you described above). If she's aggressive and hurts you, alpha rolls still won't help and she shouldn't be adopted out anyway. I'd remove these techniques from your repertoire and learn some new techniques. The training forum has a sticky on teaching bite inhibition called The Bite Stops Here.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
I agree with this. Having owned a severely DA dog, I can say that most dogs that are DA are not also HA, so usually inserting yourself between the two dogs will work, unless you wait until biting has already started. Then you're likely to get a redirected bite. I get myself between the two dogs, spread by arms out a bit, stamp one foot and yell "GO!" Most of the time, that works.
I'm new to the forum and all these abbreviations are rather overwhelming. Would you mind explaining the terms to me? Other than that, I've also started using the technique named above and it works for me. She is too intelligent for anything else.

also use the "quiet" command as taught above. Plus, luna is a foster, right? It's not unusual for dogs to suddenly find their voice after a while in a home and then use it inappropriately for a while. It's like a baby figuring out how to make a certain sound. They figure out "da" and then they won't stop saying it for a while. So Luna may stop with the random barking on her own after a while.
Luna is definitely not a foster... I adopted her at 8 weeks. She is a mix breed though, and not from an official breeder but a lady who decided to let her dog Noah have one litter in her life. She was very responsible and even gave us a 'puppy packet' when we left with informative leaflets. She was a fantastic caregiver, even though she was not an official breeder. It took me by surprise.

violence begets violence. If she's playing and hurts you, she just needs to be taught inhibition, which is not taught through alpha rolls (what you described above). If she's aggressive and hurts you, alpha rolls still won't help and she shouldn't be adopted out anyway. I'd remove these techniques from your repertoire and learn some new techniques. The training forum has a sticky on teaching bite inhibition called The Bite Stops Here.
Thank you for your advice. You stated your opinion clearly, but I will still apply some of my techniques that have worked and I've learned from being raised with dogs. I do not believe in violence and I didn't always agree with my dad, so I will not be using the exact same techniques. I prefer close to 0 physical contact. I work predominantly with eye contact and body language - barely with my voice unless I am using a specific command.

That said we do have different views - which is fine. But I still respect your opinion and hope you will continue to give me your point of view. Thank you for your advice.

edit: I will be looking at those stickies - thank you!
 

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DA= Dog Aggressive
HA= Human Aggressive

And I believe that Amaryllis was mixing up the young adult dog I had as a foster, named Luna, with your puppy who is also named Luna.

Remember that she's at a very formative time in her life where experiences matter a great deal, both positive and negative experiences. She's also going to be finding her personality more- doing things like barking and talking and growling and nipping and being annoying.

Has 12 week old Luna completed her shots? (For taking her to a dog park and other places where dogs are around) or maybe your area has low disease rates for things like parvo and distemper?
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Teach the "Quiet" command. Like teaching most commands, start with lots of tasty little treats. As first, don't actually say the command. Simply have the treats ready and when she's barking, wait for any quiet (even just a 2 second pause) and immediately treat (or click and treat if you use clicker training). Over and over, slowly expecting a longer quiet time. If the dog really gets barking, you can make a strange loud sound (like a meep, yelp or just any thing odd to distract her) and that should get her to pause her barking, then you treat. Once she gets the connection between not barking and getting a treat, you can add the command "Quiet". What I do is as soon as she is quiet, I say "Quiet" as I give the treat. The command marks the behavior as she is doing the correct behavior. After awhile, you should be able to tell her Quiet when she starts barking and have her actually be quiet.


If she is healthy per the vet, it might just be related to how much exercise she gets, how much water she drinks and how hot or cold it is. As long as she is gaining weight like she should and doesn't really go off her food, I don't see it as a problem.


I'd use an exercise pen to contain her but still keep her in the room with you; visible and safe but unable to get too pushy for attention.



If the dog turned tail and ran at a sharp noise/shout, she can probably be scared off again. You could carry a bike horn or noisemaker maybe. If you can find the owners, try to find out if the dog is actually dog aggressive or just playful and ill-mannered. You say she "tried to grab Luna" but could she simply have been going "oh yay, doggie!"? I had my foster pit bull ALSO NAMED LUNA (just to make this less confusing) get loose (collar broke) early on in her stay with me and she ran to play with this big lab and she jumped on him like she would jump on Chester; the lab was happy to play, Luna was happy to play, the Lab's owner freaked out and started screaming that Luna (at 40 lbs) was trying to kill her Lab (at easily 100 lbs). It was dark (we were on a group night hike) and it made it harder to see that their body language was fine and Luna's open mouth play biting was truly play biting. I could see it, other people could see it but the owner was panicking too much.
That said, if the dog is actually aggressive, you could try carrying a walking stick or a trekking pole.
I've been working on these techniques and they have worked within a day already. It's been really affective, I'm glad to have learned something new. The Pitt Bull may not have been trying to grab Luna (I was rather mad when I wrote this post, so excuse the over exaggeration) but I am not sure of her intentions. It could have been that she was just ill mannered - and I can imagine she is, with such irresponsible owners. A dog reflects the behavior of their owner.

I am not usually one to panic though. I am usually the one telling people "just give the dog his head, he's just trying to smell Luna" or "if you relax everything will be fine, they are just meeting each other", but because I am night blind I guess it scared the hell out of me because I didn't know what it was until I had chased it off. The person you are talking about I would have probably laughed at, if my puppy were "killing" another dog it'd probably be with love. ;)

Thank you for the advice. It really helped.
 

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DA= Dog Aggressive
HA= Human Aggressive

And I believe that Amaryllis was mixing up the young adult dog I had as a foster, named Luna, with your puppy who is also named Luna.

Remember that she's at a very formative time in her life where experiences matter a great deal, both positive and negative experiences. She's also going to be finding her personality more- doing things like barking and talking and growling and nipping and being annoying.

Has 12 week old Luna completed her shots? (For taking her to a dog park and other places where dogs are around) or maybe your area has low disease rates for things like parvo and distemper?
Yip, today she actually had the cocktail (ironically enough it was exactly her 12 week birthday) and she has also had "kennel hoest", which is also something that goes around kennels here in the Netherlands.

Thank you for the abbreviation information, I sometimes read all kinds of them and am always wondering what it means...
 

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I'm not the most knowledgeable person when it comes to dogs, but I just wanted to give a small opinion here:

1- I used to have the loose dogs problems all the time when we lived in Voorburg. I had to call the police a few times because some owners just over estimate their ability to keep the dog close by and let them loose when the dogs are still not well trained to come. Anyhow, back to your problem with your neighbor: If the dog is friendly enough, try catching it. If the owner doesn't come, take it to the closest asiel, they should be able to contact your neighbor with the microchip information. If your neighbor does show up, just calmly let them know that letting their dogs wander off can be dangerous, not only for you and your dog, but also to their dog. If it happens again, you are entitled to call 112 and tell them there's a loose dog in your neighborhood. Eventually your neighbor will learn that if they let their dogs run far from them, they'll have to go pick it up from the asiel. At least that's how my mum learned her lesson. I can't remember how many times I got into a fight with my mum for letting the dog go off leash and run off. We probably picked her up from the pound three times max.

2-If she's not losing weight, I wouldn't worry too much.

3- Aside from the great training advice other people have given (I know nothing about training), may I recommend ear plugs? With all that silence training you're going to be doing, I'm sure it will be handy to have some. They sell some nice airplane ear plugs at intersport or perrysport, but I think that at this time of the year you can also find some cheap ones at kruidvat and etos.
Also, if you can teach 'silence', I suppose you can also teach 'speak', I think I read about this a few years ago, let me fetch the article for you: http://www.clickertraining.com/node/237
Hope that helps!

4-I think other people already covered the biting issue.

I hope I was able to help! Best of luck and hugs!

Edit: yeh, most dogs in The Netherlands are not really aggressive. And indeed thank you for the abbreviations! -Also, if I'm being annoying, sorry.
 

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They sell some nice airplane ear plugs at intersport or perrysport
ha ha ha, when I started writing this thread I actually was thinking about ear plugs in a sarcastic way :D wel grappig dat je dat advies gaf, ik moest er om lachen ;) but thank you for the advice, I think catching her would be good... I remember before I had Luna she followed me home once. She was skittish, but very attentive and before I knew it she was in my house! I just discovered that it was the same Pitt Bull. I wanted to freaking keep her in the house, she was too cute and obviously needed some guidance. But, being a responsible person, I shunned my heart and put her outside. You can't just high jack someone's dog, but what you said about the kennel is a good idea. As long as she is chipped, otherwise I am taking her to the neighbors so that they do not euthanize her or something. :/

Bedankt voor het advies! Leuk om nog een Nederlander te ontmoeten.
 

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Geen dank! ;) Het is leuk om mensen uit NL hier te ontmoeten! :D

My brother had that same thing happening to him once. He was walking in a park and this huge German Shepherd followed him home. We gave him food and water (he was a nice doggy) and then we brought him to the park again. The owner was so relieved! It's just some people here don't think much and let their dogs wander off too far.

I think that most kennels here don't put doggies to sleep just like that. You can ask around, but I think that as long as they are partners of the dierenbescherming, it should be alright.

Edit: there's a new number for the dierenpolitie, it's 144.
 

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Yeah, that's what I was gonna say :p I don't think calling the emergency number 112 is appropriate for loose dogs, that's what 144 was created for last year. That's for anything related to animals instead of humans.

Any shelter or rescue affiliated with the Dierenbescherming (animal protection) is not allowed to put any healthy animal to sleep, by law. In the Netherlands, healthy dogs are not euthanized, so you don't have to worry about that :)

Adding to what Cailin said, I do believe there are plenty of aggressive dogs here due to lack of socialization or proper management. And because everyone lives so close together in our overpopulated tiny country, chances are there will be (more than) a couple of... not so friendly dogs... in your neighborhood.

About self defense regarding a loose dog coming up towards you, I agree with things that have been mentioned like getting in front of your dog and raising your voice. Something to keep in mind (I don't know how it's like in South Africa), but here in the Netherlands it is FORBIDDEN to have any weapons on you. So no knives, cattle prods, guns, you name it. Not even pepperspray. If a cop catches you with it, you're screwed.
A walking stick is a good suggestion though... and personally, my advise would be to carry deodorant with you. It works somewhat like pepperspray and you can use it to protect yourself or your dog... but it's technically not a weapon ;)

Pushing her toys against you sounds very familiar :p My dog Mike can be pushy like that too, he was terribly spoiled by his previous owner, the old woman always gave in to his antics. But he knows now that with us, when we say 'no' we're not going to play and he doesn't need to waste his time, and when we're through playing and say 'klaar' (we're done), playtime REALLY is over. He knows these words, and he knows we're serious about them. We have to, if we aren't strict with their meaning, he'll want to play all day long and become and I don't even want to know how annoying he'll become. He can't force us to play, it's just not how it works :p

Like you, we don't like barking dogs either :p We got neighbors on both sides of our house and they can hear our dog barking, so that needs to be kept at a minimum. Thankfully Mike isn't all that barky, but he can get like that when he's sooo enthusiastic and he wants to plaaaaay! But the moment he starts barking at us to throw a ball away, the game is OVER. Like Mike in this situation, Luna wants to accomplish something when she barks, and if she reaches her objective, she'll learn that her barking will get her what she wants... and that's not what you want ;) So make sure that whatever it is she wants to accomplish by barking at you, she won't get it.

I also wholeheartedly agree with Wvasko: there's no such thing as 'perfection', and giving yourself such a goal will only make you end up depressed and frustrated. Think more along the lines of 'tending to her needs to the best of your abilities'. You can't do more than what you're physically and mentally capable of :) If you know you're doing the best you can, you can't ever be disappointed with yourself, even if something doesn't work out the way you want it to.

There's one last thing I wanted to say, and that's about the amount of time you walk your pup. Luna's 12 weeks old, but you already walk her two times a day for a period of 45 minutes? That's quite a long time for such a young puppy and I'm not sure whether it's the smartest thing to do. I'd recommend taking her on shorter walks and more often, so she still gets the exercise she needs but without the amount of strain her body's probably getting now. I know it's not something you asked advise on, but it's something I noticed and thought to be very peculiar. Imo (in my opinion :p), it'd be appropriate to take her out on +- 15 minute walks by now.

Good luck with raising Luna! I don't have any experience raising pups myself, I've only ever taken in adult dogs. I did experience our neighbors' Altdeutscher Schäferhund puppy growing up though, two months ago he turned 1 year old :)
 

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Geen dank! ;) Het is leuk om mensen uit NL hier te ontmoeten! :D

My brother had that same thing happening to him once. He was walking in a park and this huge German Shepherd followed him home. We gave him food and water (he was a nice doggy) and then we brought him to the park again. The owner was so relieved! It's just some people here don't think much and let their dogs wander off too far.

I think that most kennels here don't put doggies to sleep just like that. You can ask around, but I think that as long as they are partners of the dierenbescherming, it should be alright.

Edit: there's a new number for the dierenpolitie, it's 144.
Ag, baie dankie :p net zo simpel nummer maar dan anders. Well, I don't want to take the risk. I think perhaps if this happened again I'd take the dog to the back yard for Luna to meet and if they get along, I'll go inform the neighbors (hopefully they'll come to me) that their dog was being hazardous to itself and other dogs. And then... I'll run away with her :D ha ha, no, well, it'd be tempting but of course I wouldn't ;)
 

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Yeah, that's what I was gonna say :p I don't think calling the emergency number 112 is appropriate for loose dogs, that's what 144 was created for last year. That's for anything related to animals instead of humans.
Thank you, I'll keep that in mind.

Any shelter or rescue affiliated with the Dierenbescherming (animal protection) is not allowed to put any healthy animal to sleep, by law. In the Netherlands, healthy dogs are not euthanized, so you don't have to worry about that
That's good. In South Africa thousands of dogs a year go through rehabilitating and then death. It is why I couldn't work with them anymore. You help a dog, who ends up just needing to die due to a lack of homes. You want to take them all home but having over 50 dogs in your apartment (or even on your farm) is pretty hard core! It did inspire me to want to start a rescue center one day, though.

Adding to what Cailin said, I do believe there are plenty of aggressive dogs here due to lack of socialization or proper management. And because everyone lives so close together in our overpopulated tiny country, chances are there will be (more than) a couple of... not so friendly dogs... in your neighborhood.
It's really sad! In South Africa they neglect dogs, but here in the Netherlands (where dogs are fat and look better) they are psychologically neglected! There are so many people that buy a dog like a nice couch and then expect it to be like another human... it's terrible to see for me.

About self defense regarding a loose dog coming up towards you, I agree with things that have been mentioned like getting in front of your dog and raising your voice. Something to keep in mind (I don't know how it's like in South Africa), but here in the Netherlands it is FORBIDDEN to have any weapons on you. So no knives, cattle prods, guns, you name it. Not even pepperspray. If a cop catches you with it, you're screwed.
A walking stick is a good suggestion though... and personally, my advise would be to carry deodorant with you. It works somewhat like pepperspray and you can use it to protect yourself or your dog... but it's technically not a weapon
Indeed, I was born here so don't worry - I know the rules! No guns for me (damn it) :p

Pushing her toys against you sounds very familiar :p My dog Mike can be pushy like that too, he was terribly spoiled by his previous owner, the old woman always gave in to his antics. But he knows now that with us, when we say 'no' we're not going to play and he doesn't need to waste his time, and when we're through playing and say 'klaar' (we're done), playtime REALLY is over. He knows these words, and he knows we're serious about them. We have to, if we aren't strict with their meaning, he'll want to play all day long and become and I don't even want to know how annoying he'll become. He can't force us to play, it's just not how it works :p
I agree :) it's hard to resist her because she is cute and I want her to be happy. But I know I can't always do that.

Like you, we don't like barking dogs either :p We got neighbors on both sides of our house and they can hear our dog barking, so that needs to be kept at a minimum. Thankfully Mike isn't all that barky, but he can get like that when he's sooo enthusiastic and he wants to plaaaaay! But the moment he starts barking at us to throw a ball away, the game is OVER. Like Mike in this situation, Luna wants to accomplish something when she barks, and if she reaches her objective, she'll learn that her barking will get her what she wants... and that's not what you want. So make sure that whatever it is she wants to accomplish by barking at you, she won't get it.
Indeed, that is what I am trying to do! I am not quite used to that behavior. I had a lot of help from my other dogs in the past who were able to communicate with the puppies very well, and it was a great help. Now I need to really do everything on my own.

I also wholeheartedly agree with Wvasko: there's no such thing as 'perfection', and giving yourself such a goal will only make you end up depressed and frustrated. Think more along the lines of 'tending to her needs to the best of your abilities'. You can't do more than what you're physically and mentally capable of :) If you know you're doing the best you can, you can't ever be disappointed with yourself, even if something doesn't work out the way you want it to.
I think I am just overly aware that it is a living being that I am dealing with. And not just a living being - a different living being from myself. I mean, no matter WHAT anyone says, no one really knows what dogs are thinking or why they do certain things. No matter if you listen to Cesar Milan, use 'positive training' methods or nothing particular I do not think there are many people that'll really know what it's like to be a dog - because we are not dogs. So that's why I am always a bit skeptical on training techniques. I see it as creating a system that your dog and you understand, by using treats and other nice things to get the dog to do what you want them to. That is good - and dogs may listen very well for that treat or to please you, but that still doesn't have to mean that you understand the dynamics of the dog and the nature of the dog. You just know how to teach him tricks and bring a certain message through to him - which I think is different to really understanding the natural dog. It's similar with horses. You see so many people (it tortures me, really) riding horses and making them jump with a saddle, a bridle and other tools (e.g. spurs and crops) which don't HAVE to be bad, but if you have never learned how horses work in a herd you are just making the horse do what you want in that moment and that is about it. I learned how to ride only after doing a lot of ground work and observation (I am an artist, so I often sat in the field and watched horses interacting together in a herd) and I've learned so much from simply watching them! It's amazing how much you can understand just by watching your dog. And that is also why I am not against someone like Cesar Milan. I am pretty diverse and like to expand my knowledge, and don't stick to one certain "right". But by watching dogs I have learned more than any person has ever been able to teach me.

Okay, now to the point I am trying to make: it just frustrates me that I cannot be a 'natural' companion to her. I love nature, and with my dogs in South Africa I was constantly on the move on the farm (not the same as NL farms, they're way wilder and bigger) and always off leash. I felt a closer bond to them. With Luna, she needs the leash (which my dogs in SA also were able to do, of course, but I did it as little as possible) and she has to deal with all the traffic and pavement that I also am not fond of. It's hard to explain, but I just want the best for her. Perhaps I am just reflecting my own unhappiness when I am not in nature to my dog, which is also not good :D

There's one last thing I wanted to say, and that's about the amount of time you walk your pup. Luna's 12 weeks old, but you already walk her two times a day for a period of 45 minutes? That's quite a long time for such a young puppy and I'm not sure whether it's the smartest thing to do. I'd recommend taking her on shorter walks and more often, so she still gets the exercise she needs but without the amount of strain her body's probably getting now. I know it's not something you asked advise on, but it's something I noticed and thought to be very peculiar. Imo (in my opinion :p), it'd be appropriate to take her out on +- 15 minute walks by now.
The walks are 'broken' walks. I'll walk her for a bit, and then we'll sit down on a log or something. I usually head for the forest where it is nice to sit down in the fresh air. She usually with our walks has energy to spare though, and she doesn't seem to be struggling... it's the weirdest thing, but if I don't take her for a good walk she is very hyper. I also let her walk off-leash quite a bit (unless there is that risk of traffic) and she does better off leash, and prefers to sprint after me and then hold back and do the same again.

Good luck with raising Luna! I don't have any experience raising pups myself, I've only ever taken in adult dogs. I did experience our neighbors' Altdeutscher Schäferhund puppy growing up though, two months ago he turned 1 year old :)
Thank you! I appreciate your advice and it was nice to scroll through your photo's and see your beautiful dogs. I love the name Odin - huge fan of Nordic mythology :D
 

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I also wholeheartedly agree with Wvasko: there's no such thing as 'perfection', and giving yourself such a goal will only make you end up depressed and frustrated.
Please don't think because I said that, that I believe that it's easy to do because we all got the things/habits that drive us inside our heads and sometimes very hard to change. One thing that puzzles me, we've all heard the statement "we want our kids to have better life than we did" Sometimes people want their dogs to have that type of life and get upset if it's not so. It's a dog, no more, no less.
 

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Well, I actually have hijacked a lot of the loose dogs in my neighborhood. They are so neglected, and I was worried about what the owners would say. So far, nothing. So by having my dogs out there on a long leash, I worked on 'come' and 'sit'. My neighbors are so tickled to see that when I walk down the street their dogs sit when they see me! The dogs also cearly have love for me that they don't for the owners- one teen boy got really jealous.

And now that my pups have their shots, I also let the wandering dogs into our yard to play, with the gate closed, one at a time. My dogs LOVE it.

ha ha ha, when I started writing this thread I actually was thinking about ear plugs in a sarcastic way :D wel grappig dat je dat advies gaf, ik moest er om lachen ;) but thank you for the advice, I think catching her would be good... I remember before I had Luna she followed me home once. She was skittish, but very attentive and before I knew it she was in my house! I just discovered that it was the same Pitt Bull. I wanted to freaking keep her in the house, she was too cute and obviously needed some guidance. But, being a responsible person, I shunned my heart and put her outside. You can't just high jack someone's dog, but what you said about the kennel is a good idea. As long as she is chipped, otherwise I am taking her to the neighbors so that they do not euthanize her or something. :/

Bedankt voor het advies! Leuk om nog een Nederlander te ontmoeten.
 
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