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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Oakley has been having bowel issues for about 3 weeks now... where in the morning his stools appear to be fine, but as the day progresses they become more and more loose. I brought him to the vet a week ago, and was given some pills for him to take (2 at a time, every 12 hours). He's almost done these pills and there really hasn't been any change in his bowels. If anything the one he did tonight was his worst yet. Very liquid and almost yellow.

As for him, he's been fine, no loss of energy (still does 2+ hours of heavy activity), eating the same 4.5/cups a day, and drinking like a camel.

I switched him to Orijen LBP about 2 months ago (before that he was on Chicken Soup), and he did great on it, stools were firm, although a bit dark. When his bag ran dry is when the problems seemed to have started. The 2nd day on the new bag of Orijen he started having issues. But at that point I chalked it up to something else, ate something or whatever. About a week later we ended up getting Juno, our second dog (so there's added stress there). Three days after getting Juno, her stools became 'perfect' on the same Orijen food that Oakley was having issues with. So I thought maybe it's too extreme and took him down to Acana Prarie Harvest. Which is almost identical, however a less extreme option, with many less ingredients. (Hoping to eliminate any allergy). After feeding him a mix of the 2 foods for a week with no change, we took him to the vet, who requested a fecal and prescribed those pills. He also recommended a Hill's I/D food for 4-5 days, which I argued with him was horrible food and had nothing but bad things in it. With the vet stating that Corn is one of the easiest things for a dog to digest. :eek: What? So that's why when we eat corn on the cob the kernels come out just like we ate them?

Hills I/D said:
Ingredients:
Ground Whole Grain Corn, Brewers Rice, Dried Egg Product, Chicken By-Product Meal, Corn Gluten Meal, Pork Fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols and citric acid), Soy Fiber, Dicalcium Phosphate, Chicken Liver Flavor, Iodized Salt, Potassium Citrate, Choline Chloride, Calcium Carbonate, Potassium Chloride, Soybean Oil, vitamins (Vitamin E Supplement, Niacin, Thiamine Mononitrate, Vitamin A Supplement, Calcium Pantothenate, Biotin, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Riboflavin, Folic Acid, Vitamin D3 Supplement), Taurine, minerals (Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Oxide, Copper Sulfate, Manganous Oxide, Calcium Iodate, Sodium Selenite), Ethoxyquin (a preservative).
I highlighted all the ingredients I have the most issues with.

In the end he said he wasn't going to argue with me, and compromised stating to stop the Orijen food completely, and trying the Acana by itself. Now, it's been another week with still no real change, everything is about the same. I dropped off a fecal about 2 days ago as per vet's request.

Now, I REALLY don't want to switch Oakley to Hill's I/D, even for 4-5 days... those ingredients look like they could wreck him. I'm wondering is there a good food out there, that is easily digestible and very low in fat? (What the vet said he wanted to see him on, even though he doesn't know corn isn't easily digested) So I can try him on it for 4-5 days to see if things clear up?

I bought a big bag of Acana Pacifica out of desperation the other day to see if maybe a complete diet change with slightly less fat might help things, however I am hesitant to open it and debating switching down to a more generic, grain-filled food (although hollistic) such as just Acana LBP.

My pet food store does have other brands of food and I would consider switching if it could make a difference, however as you can see I am partial to this brand for a couple reasons, high quality, it's local (Canadian), price, availability, and variety.


Help...


Oh, for easy comparison, here are the ingredients of the foods I'm feeding and am considering...

Orijen Large Breed Puppy said:
Deboned chicken, chicken meal, turkey meal, russet potato, lake whitefish, chicken fat, sweet potato, whole eggs, turkey, salmon meal, salmon and anchovy oils, salmon, natural chicken flavour, sunflower oil, sun-cured alfalfa, dried brown kelp, carrots, spinach, peas, tomatoes, apples, psyllium, dulse, glucosamine Hcl, cranberries, black currants, rosemary extract, chondroitin sulfate, sea salt.Chicory root, licorice root, tumeric root, funugreek, marigold flowers, sweet fennel, zea mays, peppermint leaf, chamomile flowers, dandelion, summer savory, rosehips.

Iron proteinate, zinc proteinate, manganese proteinate, copper proteinate.

Dried Lactobacillus acidophilus fermentation product, dried Enterococcus faecium fermentation product.

Mixed tocopherols (source of vitamin E), choline chloride, vitamin A, vitamin D3, thiamine mononitrate, vitamin B12, folic acid, biotin.

Acana Prairie Harvest said:
Ingredients:
Chicken meal, russet potato, fresh free-run chicken, peas, chicken fat (preserved with mixed tocopherals and rosemary), fresh walleye, pumpkin, fresh whole eggs, sun-cured alfalfa leaf, fresh northern Lake Whitefish, chicken cartilage (a natural source of glucosamine and chondroitin), red delicious apples, carrots, turnip greens, organic kelp, organic bladderwrack, organic dulse, juniper berries, cranberries, Saskatoon berries, angelica root, chicory root, red clover, red raspberry leaf, dandelion
root, peppermint leaf, marigold flowers, chamomile flowers, rosemary extract, Enterococcus faecium.

Vitamins (vit. A, vit. D3, vit. E, niacin, riboflavin, lysine, thiamine mononitrate, vit. B12, pyridoxine, folic acid, biotin). Minerals (iron proteinate, zinc proteinate, manganese proteinate, cobalt proteinate, copper proteinate).
Acana Pacifica said:
Ingredients:
Salmon meal, russet potato, peas, fresh boneless salmon (source of DHA), fresh boneless herring, herring meal, pumpkin, fresh boneless flounder, salmon oil (preserved with mixed tocopherols and rosemary), ground lobster shell (natural source of glucosamine), sun-cured alfalfa leaf, red delicious apples, carrots, turnip greens, organic kelp, organic bladderwrack, organic dulse, juniper berries, cranberries, Saskatoon berries, black currants, angelica root, chicory root, red clover, red raspberry leaf, dandelion root, peppermint leaf, marigold flowers, chamomile flowers, rosemary, Lactobacillus acidophilus, Enterococcus faecium.

Vitamins (vit. A, vit. D3, vit. E, niacin, riboflavin, lysine, thiamine mononitrate, vit. B12, pyridoxine, folic acid, biotin). Minerals (iron proteinate, zinc proteinate, manganese
proteinate, cobalt proteinate, copper proteinate).
Acana Large Breed Puppy said:
Ingredients:
Chicken meal, steamed oats, fresh free-run chicken, peas, fresh deboned salmon (source of DHA), brown rice, chicken fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols and rosemary), chicken liver, fresh whole eggs, sun-cured alfalfa, salmon oil, pumpkin, chicken cartilage (natural source of glucosamine and chondroitin), red delicious apples, carrots, turnip greens, cranberries, Saskatoon berries, organic sea vegetables (kelp, bladderwrack, dulse), burdock root, marshmallow root, juniper berries, fenugreek, sweet fennel, angelica root, sea buckthorn, chicory root, stinging nettle, red raspberry leaf, milk thistle, peppermint leaf, marigold flowers, chamomile flowers, Enterococcus faecium, Lactobacillus acidophilus.

Vitamins (vit. A, vit. D3, vit. E, niacin, riboflavin, lysine, thiamine mononitrate, vit. B12, pyridoxine, folic acid, biotin). Minerals (iron proteinate, zinc proteinate, manganese
proteinate, cobalt proteinate, copper proteinate).
Chicken Soup for the Puppy Lover's Soul - Large Breed said:
Ingredients:
Chicken, turkey, chicken meal, ocean fish meal, cracked pearled barley, whole grain brown rice, white rice, oatmeal, millet, potatoes, egg product, tomato pomace, chicken fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols), duck, salmon, flaxseed, natural chicken flavor, salmon oil (source of DHA), choline chloride, dried chicory root, kelp, carrots, peas, apples, tomatoes, blueberries, spinach, dried skim milk, cranberry powder, rosemary extract, parsley flake, yucca schidigera extract, L-carnitine, Enterococcus faecieum, Lactobacillus casei, Lactobacillus acidophilus, Saccharomyces cerevesiae fermentation solubles, dried Aspergillus oryzae fermentation extract, vitamin E Supplement, iron proteinate, zinc proteinate, copper proteinate, ferrous sulfate, zinc sulfate, copper sulfate, potassium iodide, thiamine mononitrate, manganese proteinate, manganous oxide, ascorbic acid, vitamin A supplement, biotin, calcium pantothenate, manganese sulfate, sodium selenite, pyridoxine hydrochloride (vitamin B6), vitamin B12 supplement, riboflavin, vitamin D supplement, folic acid.
 

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Why not go see another vet.

And while Hill's may not be the best food, I highly doubt it will wreck a dog.

What were the pills?

And have you considered a probiotic?
 

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My dog was on Hills for a little while after some vomiting and diarrhea problems. Got her system right back on track after a few days. Get another vet if you are not in agreement with their methods.
 

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Its only going to be for such a little while it is not going to damage her. It will get her system back on track. Then you can put her on something you have researched for a synsetive stomach.
 

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Dogs have been living to ripe old ages on corn-based food for generations now.

If a dog does well on a food, what's the problem? If the food you are currently feeding doesn't seem to be a good fit, why not try something completely different.

I think dogs can survive and thrive on a variety of diets - it's the primary reason they've been so successful living with humans and surviving on our "scraps" for so long.
 

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Hi sorry your dog is having such a tough time. If you do not want to feed the I/D than here is another option.

Bland Diet


Ice cubes or very small amounts of water.

Bland diet mixture:

A. Cooked white rice with boiled hamburger (drain off fat) or boiled chicken breast (no fat).

OR

B. Cooked pasta with boiled hamburger (drain off fat) or boiled chicken breast (no fat).


Feeding directions:


1st day-Give small amounts frequently.

2nd day- (If no vomiting) gradually increase the amount of each portion.

3rd day- keep gradually increasing the amount of each portion.

4th day-(If pet continues to improve) Start mixing small amounts of regular diet with bland mixture.

5th day- Mix larger amounts of regular diet with decreasing amounts of the bland diet.

6th day- (If pet is doing well) Resume normal feedings.

If pet has diarrhea eliminate the cooked white rice or cooked pasta. Feed only boiled hamburger or boiled chicken breast.

When you start mixing the regular dog food back in with the bland diet I would suggest going back to the Chicken Soup. Some dogs are fine with rotating foods some are not. Seems that Oakley has a sensitive digestive tract and changing foods is causing an upset. If it were me I would stick with what works (the Chicken Soup). My guess it that the pills that the vet gave you are this
http://www.wedgewoodpharmacy.com/monographs/metronidazole.asp
Hope this helps.
 

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We just went through something similar with our puppy. Was doing fine then diarrhea started, fecal tested and negative for any type of parasites. She was on metronidazole for a week which seemed to help firm her up a bit, but never got to normal stools. We were doing the rice/chicken diet and gradually adding in her food. Our vet told us that Pro Plan Sensitive - fish based protein - would be fine once we were adding in kibble. While she was doing great otherwise her stool didn't actually firm up until we added a prebiotic. The metronizadole really kills the intestinal flora. The first meal after we added a prebiotic and she was having normal stools. We are using In Clover Fresh Digest Daily Intestinal Aid that we got from Petco. 1/2 tsp in her food and all is well. I would definitely recommend adding a pre/probiotic to his diet and see what happens.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Thanks for all the replys... sorry for taking so long to respond. Finally got a confirmation from the vet that his fecal was negative (someone filed it before they phoned me)

As for the pills, they were Metronidazole (250mg, 2 pills every 12 hours for 10 days) and they did nothing, which means it wasn't a bacterial thing.

After I did my first post here it reminded me that he did very well on Chicken Soup, which contained grain, but was still corn free. So I ended up bringing back the Acana Pacifica (Grain-free, fish based) and got Acana Large Breed Puppy. So far in the past 2 days he seems to have firmed up. If this fails, I can always go back to Chicken Soup, which is a comparable food to the Acana LBP, but about $15 more per bag.

Oh, and as for the vet... he wasn't my usual vet, just the only one that was available when I was. Also, with times being the way they are, I didn't really want to bring him the first time for fear of spending $125+ for nothing more then confirmation that nothing is wrong with him. Just learnt a lesson that I need to think out things my own and not rely on the vet so much.
 

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I JUST went through this.

Good stools in the morning, and then all the rest throughout the day were yellow and nasty! He had horrible gas!! I had my dog on Wellness and tried Chicken Soup neither worked. So I talked to one of the vet techs about whether or not it could be a food thing, or a bacterial thing.


They said:
A. Switch too a low residue food
B. Put some yogurt in his food for a few days
C. If not better after a few weeks to a month, bring him in for tests as it could be a bacterial thing in the stomach or intestines.

The best low residue allergy food that I've found was Natural Balance. My dog has been on it about a month and all is well! He's on the potato and fish kind. Literally after having him on it for a few days his poo was normal and no gas! I put plain yogurt in for a few days too.
 

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Some of our dogs have had major issues with grain free foods causing loose stools. Summer is fine on the high protein grain free diets but the others are not. I've fed I/D before and it really actually seemed to help a lot. I wouldn't feed it long term though.

We switched to a typically lower 'ranked' food and things have improved a lot for everyone but Summer (who is now having watery eyes again). The only foods that have worked for us have been Blue Buffalo, Fromm, and Eagle Pack Holistic. Fish and duck formulas work the best it seems.
 

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Hi...if your dog was doing good on Chicken Soup Dog Food - why did you switch?

Can't you put him back on Chicken Soup Food?;)
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Hi...if your dog was doing good on Chicken Soup Dog Food - why did you switch?

Can't you put him back on Chicken Soup Food?;)
Originally I switched after learning about Orijen, how high quality it was, being grain free... and it actually saved me money, only a couple dollars more, but the bag lasted about a week or so more. If I need to switch back to Chicken Soup, I will... however, the reason I'm leaning to Acana now is price/quality ratio. $47 vs $60... for the same size bag, and the Acana has more calories per cup, so the bag lasts longer with the ingredients being the same if not better then the Chicken Soup. Right now, with 2 large dogs, I go through 2 - 30lb bags per month. So... I'm saving $26 a month on the most recently acquired bag of Acana. On top of that, they have a bag program, every 13th bag is free. So far he's doing good on the food, but if things happen to change, the next bag I buy will be Chicken Soup.

I like to get the best 'value', but... that is 2nd to the dogs well being, if the more expensive food is what works, then, thats what he'll end up getting in the long run.
 

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Not sure this will be much help but I thought I would throw my opinion in. For quite a while and on multiple foods I basically found the same thing with my dog. As the day went on, the poop became mushy and nasty. I started spacing the food out over the day so he got the same amount but in 3 feedings instead of 2. That has seemed to really fix the problem. If I try to give him much more than he gets now he goes right back to having loose stool. I can't say that would work for you, but might be worth a try with the food you are currently using. Good Luck.
 

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Glad to hear your boy's doing a little better. I too struggled with this with Nala, and the food that I found worked well for her was California Natural. She's got a very sensitive stomach, and with so few ingredients it helped alot. The food she was on before that was supposedly a low allergy food, but it didn't work. California Natural did though. By the time her food was split 25% old 75% new she had firm stools.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Not sure this will be much help but I thought I would throw my opinion in. For quite a while and on multiple foods I basically found the same thing with my dog. As the day went on, the poop became mushy and nasty. I started spacing the food out over the day so he got the same amount but in 3 feedings instead of 2. That has seemed to really fix the problem. If I try to give him much more than he gets now he goes right back to having loose stool. I can't say that would work for you, but might be worth a try with the food you are currently using. Good Luck.
Yea, they get 3 feedings, I had him on 2, but it just seemed like WAY too much food for a single sitting (4.5cups a day, 2.25 per sitting)... so he gets 1.5 cups x 3 per day. Did that switch a while ago, but very good advice nevertheless.
 

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There is also Wellness Allergy which is a limited ingredient diet (LID) food and very good. It can work for allergies but also dogs with a sensitive stomach.

I will say, I feed only high quality kibble (Innova EVO for the adults and regular Innova for the pups) and am considering switching to raw but I still keep a few cans of I/D around. It's NOT a healthy food for longterm but when they need something just to settle their stomachs it's awesome for a couple of days.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Yea, I'm going to the Vet tomorrow to get some I/D as he is had a couple pure liquid movements tonight... not sure if I should get a bag of the dry food or a couple cans? In looking at the cans/bags, the cans look like they are marginally healthier.
 

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Yea, I'm going to the Vet tomorrow to get some I/D as he is had a couple pure liquid movements tonight... not sure if I should get a bag of the dry food or a couple cans? In looking at the cans/bags, the cans look like they are marginally healthier.
My vet has always given me the can stuff to use.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Canned, eh? In reading on the Hill's site, I'm supposed to use like 5.5 cans a day? This is going to be an expensive week...
 

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Canned, eh? In reading on the Hill's site, I'm supposed to use like 5.5 cans a day? This is going to be an expensive week...
Your dog may not need to be on it for that long. Mine was on it for 2 days, also I was instructed to give her less than a full amount as it is used really to restart your dog's system.
 
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