[mochi20]

Hey all,

I own a 15 months old male shih tzu. He is really friendly most of the time. Loves
guests and is always wanting to play with you.

However, just last night when I took him out for his last toilet time before going
to sleep, he was reluctant to pee and wanted to come in to the house. I didn't
let him, so I just stayed in the doorway and cross my hands and said "pee." He
growled a little bit and barked at me. I then loudly said "NO!" And he managed
to kept quiet and after awhile he finally did his business.

I wanted to praise him, so I said "good boyyy" in a nice friendly tone. However
when I wanted to give him a little snack for his good behavior he refused to sit.
(He usually knows this very well) so I repeated myself and said "sit." I did this
a couple of time but he still didn't want to sit. So I put my hand on his bum and
press it to the ground while repeatedly saying sit, sit, sit. He stood tall and
didn't want to do the command and suddenly without any warning (no growl) or
anything he bit my arm.

I quickly snatched my arm away and firmly said NO, bad boy! I don't quite
understand why he would do that to me? Because he usually does have a good
temper and is super friendly.

Is it because I woke him up when he was already sleeping to take him out to
pee? But I did this very gently and gave him sime time to stretch and drink first.

Please help me as I am very confused :s

Much thanks
Xxx

 

[jesirose]

Would you like someone manhandling you after you've already told them you're not in the mood? He did give you warning, he growled and barked earlier.

Also, if you wanted to give him a treat for going potty, the time to do so was immediately after potty. Not after asking for a sit.

 

[Inga]

Hm, if this behavior is completely out of character for him (and it sounds like it is) I wonder about him being in pain. Maybe a bladder infection? that might explain reluctance to pee and to sit. Might be worth talking to the vet. Good Luck.

 

[Freekshow]

Would you like someone manhandling you after you've already told them you're not in the mood? He did give you warning, he growled and barked earlier.

That "How would you feel if.."-thing is old. Why didn't you just say "How would it being owned and not free?" or "how would it feel being on a leash?"

Come on .


And to the OP, sounds frustrating. My dog would never bit me, although he has shown some negative sides when hes eating his pig ear. He only gets them once a month so, probably thats why.
Anyway, I think theres something wrong with him. A friendly dog just doesent "bite", perhaps you (when you forced him to sit) hurt him? He could be sore or something.
Sorry it wasnt much help, but I wish you luck

 

[ThoseWordsAtBest]

That "How would you feel if.."-thing is old. Why didn't you just say "How would it being owned and not free?" or "how would it feel being on a leash?"

Come on .


And to the OP, sounds frustrating. My dog would never bit me, although he has shown some negative sides when hes eating his pig ear. He only gets them once a month so, probably thats why.
Anyway, I think theres something wrong with him. A friendly dog just doesent "bite", perhaps you (when you forced him to sit) hurt him? He could be sore or something.
Sorry it wasnt much help, but I wish you luck

The commenter was not implying some ridiculous concept when they said "How would you feel.." Clearly the dog expressed that it was upset with the situation. I don't understand how putting it in a simple comparison for someone is "old" and immediately means they should have said something ridiculous like "How would you feel being owned?" which doesn't even make sense.

Your dog showing "negative sides" isn't over only having that treat "once a month" it's because he is resource guarding, and clearly the pig ear is a very high value treat to him. There isn't necessarily something wrong with the OP's dog, because even friendly dog will bite, and judging by what the OP described, the dog didn't "just bite" without warning, he showed her plenty of warning with growling and barking. Dogs can't talk and tell you they don't like what is going on, but there are plenty of warning signs. My mini doxie is absolutely in love with me and we have a friendly relationship, but once he bit me, and it wasn't because he was hurt or had something wrong with him, it was my fault and I should have seen the bite coming a mile away.

 

[blackrose]

Hm, if this behavior is completely out of character for him (and it sounds like it is) I wonder about him being in pain. Maybe a bladder infection? that might explain reluctance to pee and to sit. Might be worth talking to the vet. Good Luck.

I agree.

Your pup might also have not been having a good day. Chloe gets grouchy at times and I just back off and leave her alone. I bite people's heads off when I am tired too, so I know where she is coming from.

 

[BobSD]

Some peoples replys can be so far out in right field, you have to be able to sift through them and be prepared for some not so helpfull.

This is how I see it, your dog is still in the puppy category and you can expect some surprised behavior. But remember this pup was sleeping and wanted to call it a day and possibly was startled, and then you started with basic training sit, stay. I think the dog just wanted to go to bed and you should not give a treat for that final outing because it could just stimulate wanting to go out to poop four hours later.

One last point, for that final out door rest room trip. Make sure you have not already have taken the dog out only under two hours ago, I like to make it at least three hours since my dogs went last, so this way you know he or she has something meaningful to get rid of.

 

[Elana55]

DO check with the Vet first and foremost.

Second, there are better ways to get a sit than to push a dog's butt down. This is the old way of doing it. A better way is to raise the treat over the dogs nose (up high) and then move it back. Most dogs will sit naturally and if they don't, try doing this with a wall behind them.

Third there is an age where some dogs suddenly seem to "forget" what sit means. I call it that teenage thing. When they do it, you just retrain it (it doesn't take as long as the first time around) and move on. Remember to only say a command ONCE or the command will become three sits or three come heres etc.

Now, please do not take this as chastising as it was not meant that way. I used to use the "push the but to the ground" method and it worked but the lure into a sit works better and the dog is a lot happier to comply and the only biting is the treat.

If I were you, assuming the vet finds nothing wrong, I would investigate clicker (or some other marker) training. As some dogs mature they will take offense at Modeling type training. Modeling is physically maneuvering the dog into a position or a response you want. Not all dogs mind, but when one does, you can get bitten etc.

Modeling is an old school methodolgy and there are better ways. Check out the book, "The Complete Idiots Guide to Positive Dog Training" by Pamela Dennison. Take a look at the stickies at teh top of this site. Focus on NILIF (nothing in life is free), Doggy Zen Game and the Free Clicker training sites. You can get more advice from www.clickertraining.com

Yes. Your dog warned you that he was going to bite by growling. You will know to heed to warning next time and come up with a better way to get the dog to respond (again this assumes no medical issues). The point of dog training is not master-servant but partners. to that end you do not want your partner to fail and a bite is a fail.. so prevnet a next time from happening and make sure your partner succeeds.

 

[Westhighlander]

Something seems wrong when a dog bites its owner.

 

[Inga]

Something seems wrong when a dog bites its owner.

especially a previously friendly dog. I don't know what others are thinking but If I tell my dog to sit, I expect him to do that. I guess I don't have the luxury of having my dogs listen only when they feel like it or it is a good time for the dog. I don't think a dog should growl or bite me if I DO decide to push his little rump down after repeatedly asking for a sit either. I do agree that luring a dog into a sit is a better option but at this point my concern would first be to rule out why a previously friendly dog suddenly plants a bite onto it's owner.

 

[Freekshow]

especially a previously friendly dog. I don't know what others are thinking but If I tell my dog to sit, I expect him to do that. I guess I don't have the luxury of having my dogs listen only when they feel like it or it is a good time for the dog. I don't think a dog should growl or bite me if I DO decide to push his little rump down after repeatedly asking for a sit either. I do agree that luring a dog into a sit is a better option but at this point my concern would first be to rule out why a previously friendly dog suddenly plants a bite onto it's owner.

Agree..it's not normal for friendly dogs to bite their owners. And I really doubt if your, otherwise friendly dog, is grumpy could bite you. I got a cojack (corgi/jack russel mix) and I really can't think of any day where he could've been grumpy, sad and whatnot.
Perhaps something else happend

 

[pamperedpups]

It seems to me your dog gave you plenty of warning before the bite, though I do agree with getting him checked out by a vet to rule out any physical and/or mental problems that may be causing him to act out. That said, repeating your cues really isn't helpful as it devalues them. You want your cue to be "sit" (or "down," or whatever) not "sit, sit, siiit, *butt push*, sit, SIT!" As mentioned previously, dogs really aren't good at learning through molding (being physically put into position). Luring can be helpful, but it's very important to fade the lure quickly when training so your dog does not become dependant upon the lure as a part of the cue. You can also capture and shape behaviors for great results. I second the suggestion to check out the clicker training links already provided and also suggest you get "The Complete Idiot's Guide to Positive Training" by Pamela Dennison. http://www.dogstardaily.com is another great source for information. I will also advise against using negative words such as NO, bad, etc. or actions such as swatting, etc. as you won't be telling your dog what TO DO and that leaves a lot of options open that may be equally as undesirable. As you have experienced, these things can also lead to aggression. Redirect instead, or as a friend of mine says, "change the subject." Just be sure to spend most of your time with your dog practicing, marking and rewarding, rewarding, rewarding all of the good things your dog does every day.

 

[KBLover]

I guess I don't have the luxury of having my dogs listen only when they feel like it or it is a good time for the dog. I don't think a dog should growl or bite me if I DO decide to push his little rump down after repeatedly asking for a sit either.

My thinking exactly.

Maybe it was just a "bad day". I'd write it off as that, for now.

Wally bit me once when my mother went on a business trip and he didn't see her for 3 days. So some parts of his routine were broken, and it just made too much tension for him.

So he got it out on me (which was a bit laughable because it didn't even hurt) and then suddenly his tail was wagging and all happy again. I wrote it off as a stress release (and I was the available "chew toy"). I did correct him for it, but just thought it was a one-time thing, and it was. Never bit me again.

As mentioned, dogs aren't really good at learning through molding (being physically put into position).

Wally must be a genius because he has actually learned things like this rather quickly (walking up and down stairs for one).

 

[pamperedpups]

I wouldn't say Wally learning through molding makes him a genius, KB, just different. Most dogs have a hard time connecting the dots between the position they are put into being the position they are to assume on their own later on. More often than not, some physical movement of the handler becomes a part of the cue, as often happens with luring, as well.

 

[KBLover]

I wouldn't say Wally learning through molding makes him a genius, KB, just different. Most dogs have a hard time connecting the dots between the position they are put into being the position they are to assume on their own later on. More often than not, some physical movement of the handler becomes a part of the cue, as often happens with luring, as well.

One way I get around that is to click the motion (or the end result) while I'm still and/or in the position I'm most likely to be - then generalize from there once he learns it without any "cheat sheets" as it were.

Usually, if I need to teach him the actual movement, I'll use luring/molding to teach him to move his body that way. Teach the movement then teach the movement in relation to whatever task I want to actually teach him.

It's a round-about way, but sometimes its the way to get him to start the movement and start then offering it in his attempts to figure out the task. This is how I finally got a breakthrough with the folding down. Had to teach him the folding motion first, then teach him to use it for the down.

It's like he's paw-challenged or something. Doesn't know how to maneuver his body sometimes.

 

[jesirose]

I don't know what others are thinking but If I tell my dog to sit, I expect him to do that. I guess I don't have the luxury of having my dogs listen only when they feel like it or it is a good time for the dog.

I don't have a robot, I have a living creature that has her own complex set of rules and feelings. If my boss says jump usually I say how high, but not every day is the best day for that. Why should I expect my dog to be more perfect than me?

Most people think their dog is completely friendly, yet the dog is constantly giving off warning signs that it's not. It's not black and white, the dog isn't either perfectly friendly or an attack dog.

 

[pamperedpups]

Very well said, jesirose!!!

It's like he's paw-challenged or something. Doesn't know how to maneuver his body sometimes.

If your dog were to try to teach you to dance, he would probably say the same thing.

 

[mochi20]

thanks so much for all the replies! my dog is due for his yearly vaccination in a weeks time so I'll make it a point to ask the vet to see if he has any bladder infection.

but other than that I'd like to think it as that he was just having an off night.

thanks again!

xxx

 

[jesirose]

If your dog were to try to teach you to dance, he would probably say the same thing.

Well said to you! I've started having my classes do the "fruits and veggies" game from Karen Pryor's book and it really helps people understand why our dogs can "forget" something they know or get annoyed with our attempts to teach them.

I'm trying to imagine Sadie trying to teach ME the dance cue we have for her. I already walk on two legs and wave my arms around She'd easily capture it

thanks so much for all the replies! my dog is due for his yearly vaccination in a weeks time so I'll make it a point to ask the vet to see if he has any bladder infection.

If it were an infection you'd see increased urination and desire to urinate with less actual urine. Possibly blood in the urine. If that were the case you'd want to go ASAP not in a week. Urinary infections are incredibly painful, you wouldn't want your dog to suffer pain, burning and urges to go for a whole week.

 

[KBLover]

If your dog were to try to teach you to dance, he would probably say the same thing.

He might not have taught me how to dance (yet), but he's taught me how to play the canine version of twister with him.

All I have to do is drop some porkchop on the floor and try teaching him to leave it.

Pretty soon, I think "leave it" will mean "oh, he wants to play that game where I try to get the treat and make him try not to trip over me!"

Well said to you! I've started having my classes do the "fruits and veggies" game from Karen Pryor's book and it really helps people understand why our dogs can "forget" something they know or get annoyed with our attempts to teach them.

Oh I'm pretty sure I've annoyed Wally more than a few times trying to teach him things, especially when I knew less than I do now (which still ain't much).

Thinking back on it, I wish I counted how many of the nose-licks and averted glances I saw before I knew those actually meant anything.