[mrsawesome]

I just need someone to maybe dumb it down a little for me. Here's what happened, this morning i'm literally leaving the house for work (getting watch on, shutting blinds, turning on discovery channel for dogs) when i notice them chewing on something. I go check it out. it's one of them travel bottles of Advil. (disclaimer: I have NO IDEA where they got the bottle. All my medicines are in upper cabinet. i'm SPECULATING that they found the travel bottle in my camera bag or something). I took the bottle and 2 pills from the floor (the bottle only holds 10 tablets and I don't know how many were already gone from bottle). I remembered reading somewhere that Advil wasn't good for dogs so i called the animal ER they said get them in. so we were at ER within 30minutes of them ingesting the advil. ER gave them something to throw up everything in their stomach. there were no pills so they think pills already disolved. When the vet was talking to me, i was an emotional WRECK and she gave me so much information that not only was it too much, but using medical terms that i'm not familiar with. I called up to the ER a little bit ago and their blood levels normal. they'd like to keep dogs for 48 hours, but it's $1500/dog per night which is $3000 total per 24 hours. Is this safe to treat at home since their blood levels are normal? Dogs are 2 females, utd on shots and 20lbs each.

 

[Hiraeth]

In my opinion, leave them at the vet for at least 24 hours. Blood work does not cover all of the bases of what can happen from ingestion of Advil, and if one of them ingested all 8 of the missing pills, it could easily be fatal.

Once swallowed, ibuprofen and naproxen are rapidly absorbed from the stomach and intestines. Depending on the amount of drug ingested, toxic effects can occur within an hour, but some signs can take a few days to appear.

There is no specific antidote for ibuprofen or naproxen toxicity. Treatment may include intravenous fluid therapy, blood transfusions, medications to help heal stomach damage, and other medications to help support and stabilize the patient. Hospitalization may be required so that blood values, urine output, and vital signs can be monitored. Ibuprofen or naproxen toxicity can be fatal. However, pets can survive if the condition is recognized, diagnosed, and treated quickly. The amount of drug involved also has a direct effect on recovery and long-term outcome.

It really stinks, but that is a lot of missing Advil.

Did the vet offer any sort of payment plan for the stay, like CareCredit, so you can pay the bill off over time instead of all at once?

 

[nadia]

Wow! That's a hefty vet bill. Honestly it frustrates me how much they can wipe out your bank account just to watch your dogs over night. Not to mention how much extra it would be if something went wrong!

If your dogs blood levels or okay and they haven't been showing signs of nausea vomiting lethargy etc and seem otherwise normal, I would take them home. You're going to have to spend that money anyway if something does end up being wrong, so I see no point in wasting 3000 dollars tonight if nothing is wrong.

Go with your gut!

 

[nadia]

Hiraeth, that's more helpful than my input and I didn't know Advil could take days to show symptoms. (I figured they should be showing symptoms by now) so thank you for adding that and giving them an informed solution.

 

[sassafras]

At the low end of the toxic dose range, ibuprofen can cause stomach ulcers.
At the higher end of the toxic dose range, ibuprofen can cause severe damage to the kidneys, but the damage may not show up for 24-48 hours. Running IV fluids helps protect the kidneys from this damage.

Since you don't know the dose your dogs ingested or even for sure which dog ingested it, there is no way for anyone to answer the question about whether it is safe to treat at home. It is safest to assume the worst and treat accordingly. You might get lucky assuming the best, but there's no way to know.

 

[sassafras]

Wow! That's a hefty vet bill. Honestly it frustrates me how much they can wipe out your bank account just to watch your dogs over night.

They are not "just watching the dogs overnight."

 

[TGKvr]

That price is... off the charts! How can it be so much? And I honestly wonder - do they REALLY have someone there all night long, monitoring them? Some facilities do, some don't. I'd definitely ask if there is 24/7 supervision before making your decision. I'm no vet, or even close, but if the bottle only had 10, you were able to capture two, and you're not sure if any were already gone then worst-case scenario you have one dog that ate 8 and one that had none, or both had SOME... they've already thrown up. I would guess that it's probably OK to take them home and monitor them but that's just me, and my personal opinion. If in ANY doubt about it, then leaving them seems the best bet - but that is a REALLY hefty fee for something like that. Unbelievable.

(take what I say with a grain of salt... I came home to my dog with a pack of straight pins scattered about on the floor and decided to wait it out a day or two instead of going for x-rays. Everything was fine, but... these are the choices we make and if anything HAD been wrong, I probably would have kicked myself for it)

 

[RonE]

A few responses here are advising you to take a chance with your dog's life. Do you feel lucky? How are you going to feel if they're wrong?

 

[mrsawesome]

Yes, I have care credit.

but the damage may not show up for 24-48 hours- OH MAN!!! THIS IS SCARY! is that something they will see when they run their blood levels?

yes, there is actually someone there overnight- usually 3 workers. One of the girls somehow got parvo back in February (even though UTD on shots) and she at that ER, i pretty much lived at that place for 2 nights and 3 days with her (a very expensive stay-cation).

Yeah, they have them on fluids and then they're giving them 'activated charcoal' to absorb the medicine and something to help with their stomach lining?

 

[TGKvr]

FWIW, I wasn't advising one thing or another - I understand how something like this can cause conflicting feelings. Some of us don't have that kind of money - and sure, our dogs' lives are priceless and I'd bet that any one of us here would spend whatever it took to keep our babies healthy. But in reality? $3K is a LOT of money for ONE night of supervision. Not everyone has the luxury, unfortunately, to always do the "right" thing for their pets. It's very sad, but very true. Sometimes we take chances that perhaps we wouldn't otherwise, if financial circumstances were different. Ultimately, no one can really tell the OP what exactly to do or not do... it will have to be a decision she makes on her own, based on weighing the pros and cons and her gut feelings. Obviously it's better to err on the side of caution and leave the dogs at the vet's overnight, but that price tag is high enough that it could REALLY compromise some people's ability to pay their bills, etc. I would think the office would work with a payment plan for something like that, though. Definitely worth asking.

Ultimately, "taking a chance" is a decision that we are responsible for... and many of us enter into that chance knowing exactly what the risks are and exactly how terrible we'd feel if we were wrong. But that's life. If the OP decided to take that chance and not stay at the vet's, I wouldn't judge her for it.

 

[Hiraeth]

A few responses here are advising you to take a chance with your dog's life. Do you feel lucky? How are you going to feel if they're wrong?

Agreed. Especially with so many missing pills and such small dogs. Blood work can only show so much when it's done an hour after the pills were potentially ingested.

It does seem like an exorbitant price. Is this vet your only choice in the area? Can you ask them why an overnight stay is so expensive?

FWIW, I wasn't advising one thing or another - I understand how something like this can cause conflicting feelings. Some of us don't have that kind of money - and sure, our dogs' lives are priceless and I'd bet that any one of us here would spend whatever it took to keep our babies healthy. But in reality? $3K is a LOT of money for ONE night of supervision. Not everyone has the luxury, unfortunately, to always do the "right" thing for their pets. It's very sad, but very true. Sometimes we take chances that perhaps we wouldn't otherwise, if financial circumstances were different. Ultimately, no one can really tell the OP what exactly to do or not do... it will have to be a decision she makes on her own, based on weighing the pros and cons and her gut feelings. Obviously it's better to err on the side of caution and leave the dogs at the vet's overnight, but that price tag is high enough that it could REALLY compromise some people's ability to pay their bills, etc. I would think the office would work with a payment plan for something like that, though. Definitely worth asking.

Ultimately, "taking a chance" is a decision that we are responsible for... and many of us enter into that chance knowing exactly what the risks are and exactly how terrible we'd feel if we were wrong. But that's life. If the OP decided to take that chance and not stay at the vet's, I wouldn't judge her for it.

I'm not necessarily into "judging" people for their decisions, however, I do feel like everyone should be able to absorb a *certain* amount of emergency vet bills when they are pet owners. If anyone gets a dog and thinks that they're never going to pay for anything outside of vaccines and routine checkups, hoo boy, they're probably very wrong.

That being said, $6K is on the higher side of what I think most 'average' households would be able to comfortably absorb. Ask about a payment plan, for sure, and perhaps look in the area for a facility that won't charge as much for a night of observation?

 

[mrsawesome]

also, i don't know who ate what. they're speculating that the tan one (we have a tan and a black dog) ate most of it because her puke was redder than the others puke.

 

[mrsawesome]

One of the rescue ladies friended me on fb. she's not a vet, but has much dog experience (a lot more than me!). she said that the ER i've been taking her to seems to be 'overkill and ripping me off'. so kind of why i'm asking. I can take them out of that ER monitor them tonight. get them to their regular vet tomorrow for more blood work/testing, and if need be take them over to the other 24 hour vet that the rescue lady suggested.

 

[Hiraeth]

also, i don't know who ate what. they're speculating that the tan one (we have a tan and a black dog) ate most of it because her puke was redder than the others puke.

Red as in... The color of Advil? Or as in, their stomach linings may be bleeding because Advil has been known to cause bleeding ulcers? Because if the Advil has been digested, I wouldn't imagine the color would be left behind?

Even ONE Advil can be fatal to a dog of that size. If there were ANY signs of consumption, leave them or find another vet to take them to. I would strongly recommend that you DO NOT take them home.

One of the rescue ladies friended me on fb. she's not a vet, but has much dog experience (a lot more than me!). she said that the ER i've been taking her to seems to be 'overkill and ripping me off'. so kind of why i'm asking. I can take them out of that ER monitor them tonight. get them to their regular vet tomorrow for more blood work/testing, and if need be take them over to the other 24 hour vet that the rescue lady suggested.

ETA: Like I said, perhaps take them to a different clinic, as the prices at this one seem very high. Taking them home when they have eaten pills that are known to be fatal to dogs could be dooming them to horrible deaths. By the time you notice signs of kidney failure, it will be too late.

 

[TGKvr]

Ahhh... I guess I glossed over the part where it's the ER folks actually going to monitor your pups overnight. That makes much more sense as to the high cost now. Still doesn't make it right though and it DOES seem like an exorbitant amount. It just sucks to be put in a position where you truly have to weigh the pros and cons of a risky situation and to be so uncertain. Have you called your regular vet yet to ask their advice?

I'm really sorry you have to deal with this... so scary. I wish you luck!

**ETA: also, I've thrown up before after taking Advil and long enough that I'm certain it had dissolved... the color was definitely a pinkish advil color - though I wouldn't have called it red or reddish.

 

[mrsawesome]

Red as in... The color of Advil?

yes, the advil had a reddish color candy coating. but they also didn't know how much of that 'red' was from their dog food. We actually ran out on monday and my husband mixed 'emergency' food all together and was feeding them that. btw, Their emergency food consists of cheaper food we'd get when unexpected food needs arised (longer visits to friends than planned etc...)

 

[sassafras]

What you seem to want is for someone to tell you it's fine to take your dogs out of the hospital. No one who truly understands ibuprofen toxicity is going to tell you that.

If you don't have the money, you don't have the money. But if you don't want to spend the money then you have to decide how comfortable you are with gambling. Maybe they vomited it up, maybe they didn't. Maybe they didn't even eat it in the first place. Maybe one of them ingested a toxic dose, maybe both of them did. Those are all unknowns and you just have to decide how comfortable you are with assuming the best vs assuming the worst and acting accordingly. No one can objectively, factually say it's ok or not ok.

As for the cost. The cost is substantial but it is NOT just to babysit or supervise and it's ridiculous to suggest that it is. An emergency/overnight facility has a great deal of overhead, far more than a day clinic. Who among you would like to take the responsibility for running IV fluids in a safe manner - working overnight hours, calculating an appropriate fluid rate, purchasing and maintaining the facility and equipment you need to do so, not overhydrating or underhydrating, monitoring for adverse reactions and being able to address them, etc? If you do and you think you can do it cheaply, good luck to you.

 

[Hiraeth]

Red as in... The color of Advil?

yes, the advil had a reddish color candy coating. but they also didn't know how much of that 'red' was from their dog food. We actually ran out on monday and my husband mixed 'emergency' food all together and was feeding them that. btw, Their emergency food consists of cheaper food we'd get when unexpected food needs arised (longer visits to friends than planned etc...)

Did they have food in their stomachs that they were vomiting? Or was it only stomach acids and fluids?

I can't imagine red food dye staying in the stomach that long. Or Advil caplet dye, honestly.

 

[Amaryllis]

ETA: Like I said, perhaps take them to a different clinic, as the prices at this one seem very high. Taking them home when they have eaten pills that are known to be fatal to dogs could be dooming them to horrible deaths. By the time you notice signs of kidney failure, it will be too late.

This is true. By the time you visually see any evidence of kidney problems, it's way too late. I think $1,500 per night per dog is high and I live in a very high cost of living area, however, if that's the only option for overnight monitoring of a dog that may be going into kidney failure as we speak, that's what you do.

 

[mrsawesome]

ok, yes. i'm looking for validation that they're going to be okay. but I didn't know it takes 24-48 hours to notice anything.

If any advil was eaten it was at 7am
they were eating thier breakfast about 7:05 while i was on phone with ER (I was leashing them up at their food bowls) so yes- food was in their stomachs.

Do we have the money? yes and no. if it were all coming out of pocket- no. but we got care credit/payment plan, so yes. we'll just have to scale back a bit on extra curricular spending.