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crate maybe too big, if its just the right size, ie not big enough for a toilet area then it may be more likely to hold on to do its business when you take it out of the cage and put it outside
 

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A friendly reminder that this is a VERY old thread and the OP hasn't been on the forum since October, 2006.
 

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Through the years I have cratebroke many puppies starting at 7 weeks of age. Due to the way we are setup during the hours we are awake pups are out of crate every 1 hr to 1.5 hrs and stay in crate all night 8 hrs. Do puppies have accident in crates you betcha. If done properly accidents get less and less until done. We do spread newspaper on crate bottoms and also use the fiber-glass/plastic crates. Dogs would prefer to sleep in clean areas so you have mother nature as your partner in this. It is a lot of work, but nobody ever promised me a rose garden whenever I cratebroke a pup. It just comes with the territory.(the work)
 

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I wish you'd get an ex pen instead of expecting him to potty train in a crate at 11 weeks old. See some of my other rants... He will most likely start, around 4 months of age, to wait a bit... that's the more natural time than 11 weeks...
I have a question for you blackgavotte -- i have my 9wk old pup set up in my bathroom that isnt carpeted, his crate is in there lined with a blanket, but i took the door of it and i have a pad set on the floor for him to use while i am at work and cannot come home for lunch. I use a baby gate so that I can leave the bathroom door open and he can have a view.... i will be moving to a new carpeted house soon and i think the kitchen more than likely will be the new set up (maybe an ex-pen)..... do you think its possible for him when he is older to be able to do botht he pads while i am at work and go outside when we go for walks and exercise?
 

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I know that this thread is pretty old, but it looks like there has been some recent activity, so I'll post here rather than start a new thread for now. It had particular relevance to me since I'm experiencing a similar issue. First, some details (and I apologize in advance for the length).

We picked up our little guy Dakota last week from the pound. He's an 8 week old Lab mix that has been fixed. We believe that he was at the pound for several weeks and do no know where he was before that. We brought him home and adjusted a large cage/crate to give him some space to move around that wasn't too tight nor too large (we think...we have about the same distance as shown for the puppy on the website).

As far as what we keep in the cage, we leave a Kong chew toy and a nylabone in there for him to gnaw on during the day. We also have a towel for him to lay on in there. Sometimes he pees on the towel, sometimes on the plastic tray. It varies.

Re: our schedule for him. Wake up @ 5, give him water and walk/play for 30-45 minutes. He always pees & does @ least one #2 in this period. Then food and more water if he wants it. At that time I get ready for work and he goes back to his crate for another hour until my g/f takes him for another walk before she leaves for work (7 am), which is typically 30 minutes.

Unfortunately I'm not able to come home for lunch until 12 (at which time he's soiled his cage). I then walk/play with him for 30-35 minutes and water if he wants it. Back to his crate.

I get home by 4:30, and it's immediately walk/play time again for at least another 30-40 min, then food and water again. When I head off to school, the g/f will let him hang on the couch/around the house with him until she walks him again @ around 7-7:30 for another 30 min.

He gets a walk/play again when I get home from school, for up to an hour which takes us to 9:30-10:00 pm. I take him outside before I rack @ 11 and wake up again @ 2am to take him for a quick outside trip.

*Phew* Sorry about the verbosity there, just wanted to give all the details for anyone who cares to respond. As you can see, he doesn't have a problem with #2 in the house, he always crunches outside. It's just the intermittent peeing in his cage. So I'm wondering, given that he was a pound puppy and caged all the time combined w/ the fact that he's still so young, am I just needing to exhibit more patience? We've discussed getting an outside kennel to house him during the day. But I'm worried that this will have an adverse affect on trying to house-train him. Because right now, there really aren't any visual cues that he's trying to go pee (even his poo one is really quick), he just squats and lets it fly.

Again, sorry for the length and appreciate any input anyone is willing to provide. Looking forward to hearing from you guys!
 

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I think patience will help, but I also think setting him up in some way that he can get away from his mess- a crate opening into an exercise pen or a dog door into an outdoor run- would REALLY help him learn to LIKE being able to get away from his mess. It just sounds like that one long gap from 7 to 12 is just too long for him right now. (A more vigorous walk before he's left at 7 MIGHT help. The problem is, he's only JUST woken up from a 3 hour nap, so getting him right back to sleep is going to be tough.)
 

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I think patience will help, but I also think setting him up in some way that he can get away from his mess- a crate opening into an exercise pen or a dog door into an outdoor run- would REALLY help him learn to LIKE being able to get away from his mess. It just sounds like that one long gap from 7 to 12 is just too long for him right now. (A more vigorous walk before he's left at 7 MIGHT help. The problem is, he's only JUST woken up from a 3 hour nap, so getting him right back to sleep is going to be tough.)
Unfortunately, due to the way our house is setup, the option to get him outside is not available. The only exterior door to the back yard is setup such that we would able to get his cage there.

Re: moving is crate to an area where he could exit to EP. We could probably find room for that (our house is relatively small, 1100 sq ft and most of that space is used) but wouldn't that just reinforce him to take care of biz in the house?
 

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Reinforcing him to potty outside of the crate on newspapers is FAR preferable to reinforcing him for pottying in the crate. And while he's having to then lay in it, that's not going to bother him if he has lost the instinct to be clean (that's recoverable, but MUCH slower to fix than if it distresses him) and the feeling of relief he gets from eliminating *is* a (mild) reinforcer in itself.

Either he has lost the instinct to be clean (and honestly, this wouldn't be my bet) or he just plain CAN'T hold it any longer when he's awake.
 

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Re: Peeing in crate

Where did you get the dog from? A breeder or a pet shop?? Dogs bought from a pet shop are used to going to the bathroom in the crate and laying in it.
I have to say this was not my experience. I bought my dog at a pet store 7.5 yrs ago (before I knew better) and she hardly ever had an accident in her crate at all, but when she did............. she would be cuddled up in the farthest distance from where she had the accident.
 

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Reinforcing him to potty outside of the crate on newspapers is FAR preferable to reinforcing him for pottying in the crate. And while he's having to then lay in it, that's not going to bother him if he has lost the instinct to be clean (that's recoverable, but MUCH slower to fix than if it distresses him) and the feeling of relief he gets from eliminating *is* a (mild) reinforcer in itself.

Either he has lost the instinct to be clean (and honestly, this wouldn't be my bet) or he just plain CAN'T hold it any longer when he's awake.
Dogstar, I guess I'll have to talk to the g/f and see about getting something else setup if we can. Like I said we're limited in area in our house, so we'd have to find someplace to get a setup like that done. I suppose that doing this is better than just putting him outside in a kennel during the day, since that won't be teaching him to be house broken or prevent him from going in his crate.

My question if we go with this setup though is how does it relate to trying to house-break him? If he gets accustomed to going inside the ex pen, won't that be trouble later down the line for him to always want to go in that area? Additionally, he'll be big enough to just bull through an ex pen I would think and get into the house. Or am I way off here?
 

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Well, putting a top on the exercise pen really helps, and putting it on something (a shower curttain, plastic sheeding) with paper over it (newspaper or potty pads- I actually prefer newspaper- initially covering the entire floor so that urine can't accidentally soak into the floor.

I've got detailed steps on my blog here http://dogstaracademy.wordpress.com/2008/05/06/crate-soilin/
This topic comes up a lot on this board. :p
 

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I agree that more frequent outings never hurt and I am very curious about the breed. I have a Papillon and I probably let out every 1and1/2 to 2 hours when she was a puppy- and I would have to wake up in the middle of the night to let her out to potty too. Best of luck with your bundle of joy!
 

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Actually now, at almost 6 months, he doesn't go in his cage anymore. He gives us a whine if he's in crate to let us know if he needs to go out and handle business. The only problem that we have now is that he occasionally has an accident (pee) in the house if we're not paying close enough attention to his wanderings. Last night was the first time in about 3 weeks that we've had an accident. Every since we got the outside kennel for him, we haven't really had an issue w/ him. He actually doesn't even go in his kennel during the day. Just waits til we get home!
 

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I have a similiar problem. My puppy, Shylah is approximately 14 weeks old
(3 1/2 mths). We got her from a family member at 10 weeks old. As soon as we got her, we got a large crate with the the separater to make it the proper size and allow for growth. She was already accustomed to the crate, only previously with her two other siblings. She did very well in the beginning. I fully expected her to have an accident every night, but she didn't. we started with newspaper, but she just wanted to tear that up. So we don't put any type of paper down, and she manages to hold it over night. Typically every morning she wakes us up with a bark letting us know. This morning, oddly, she did not wake us up with a bark. As we let her out, she let it go as she was walking. I'm unsure as to why she didn't let us know. I already took her outside for a walk and play earlier today and then gave her a bath. Since this she has already had two accidents in her crate. I don't understand it. She does so well for about a week or two, then all the sudden, one day she will have 2-3 accidents with no prior warning. She does a little cry or weep after she's gone. The first time this happen, I thought well maybe from lasting through the night she might have a urinary tract infection, and had to go pee a lot. But it seems to only last a day then she is back to doing well. I need some opinions.. and for extra info: she has not deficated in the crate once. I'm thinking, am I giving her too much water? She seems to be thirsty a lot and will continuously bark if she's not completely satisfied with food and water. What is the proper amount? I am afraid to dehydrate her. What is the longest time span she should go before being let out to potty? and should I wait on a bark for her to signal me? How long can I count on dealing with these accidents before expecting her to have this crate training down? I want to allow her more free time, out of the crate, once I can trust her to give a signal and allow us the time to take her out. I have always heard that allowing a puppy to much area to roam will confuse the puppy and make it impossible to housebreak. This is the first time I have used a crate and I have to say it is working better than other methods. Any advice please help.
Can I get away with three meals for her, at this age?
 

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:p Ok I love my German Shepherd he is now twelve weeks old. He does pee in his crate. I have tried just about everything. Now he is even put outside on a lead all day. I bought him in the house and put him in his crate and sure enough he peed. I am at my wits end just like several others of you. I do not know what to do and my Vet says that he could have a bladder problem but he isnt sure why he does it. All the experts tell you they will not pee where they sleep but I think they need to come and visit some of us. Looks like we are all in the urine filled boat.
 

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Well Shylah for the most part has done pretty well.. she has a little hyper accident when she's been left for a long period of time.
Today I gave her a bath and she hasn't had one in a while. Due to the fact that she always has an accident soon after a bath, I made sure to have her go potty before going back in her crate. well about an hour later she has an accident, a big puddle. Doesn't even make sense how she could pee so much. This makes me so angry because her crate was just cleaned and she was just bathed, then here we go again. You would think she would be more prone to accidents when she's stinky, but she is the opposite. She does get all excited if anyone goes around her crate while she's not in it. She definitely takes ownership of her crate, like her own place. Is it possible she prefers it to smell of pee, because she is marking it so to speak, and she wants to re-make that smell. Also, I clean it with vinegar. I've heard this removes smell, so I don't believe it would encourage her to urinate. She had the one accident today after the bath and the crate does not smell bad (after the usual quick vinegar spray and wipe up). She has not had an accident again, so I don't know what to think. These aren't little "I'm happy to see you, oops some pee slipped out." This is like a whole bladders worth about an hour to half and a half after a bath, which was followed by a potty break. And mind you, this puppy goes through the night with no accidents.
Bath time always take place after playing time, and i fully expect her to be getting a good nap.. but this seems to happen everytime.

Give me your thoughts. thanx.
 

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I don't know how much age has to do with this. My puppy is 8-month-old now and can barely hold it for 2 hours, and she has no reservation whatsoever about peeing inside the crate and sometimes even lying in her own urine. Imagine my frustration of having to clean the crate and give her baths on a regular basis.

Just wanted to let you know you are not the only one, I am just hoping and praying she will get better soon.
 

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I can certainly appreciate the frustration all of you are experiencing. I thought for a while Dakota would never get it. Since the last time I replied to this post, we haven't had a single problem. He wakes us in the morning when to let us know that he needs out and goes to sit by the front door while he's inside roaming to signal his need to go outside.

Chuckles, it's weird that your dog can't hold it longer. Dak manages to hold all his waste for the better part of 9 hours or more when he's outside in his kennel during the weekday.

It's weird, it seems that we actually saw in improvement in the problem when we expanded his crate to actually make it larger for him. *shrug* I do know that it seemed to help that we were consistant in taking him out every couple of hours when he was inside, whether or not his was signalling his need. It seemed to help reenforce that he should go over to the front door when it was pee-pee time. Good luck guys!
 

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I feel for the OP! In my opinion it sounds like she is doing the possible best with what she gots!
I crate trained my bulldog from the time she was 8 weeks old! she did have messes and it got cleaned up and she did it until she was probably 3 or 4 months old then after that she was completely trained! She was usually in the crate for about 4 hrs at a time then at night for a bit at bedtime but i would get up 3 times during the night to let her out and let her sleep in bed with us!

Now we also have a stray that we took in who is around a yr old min pin who is not house trained or crate trained so we are trying to work on that now! he is a smart booger though! we have a small crate for him he will pee on the outside of the crate so its not in his space but all over my floor :( and he has only done this twice but IF he poops he will kick it outside the crate as well....what a stinker huh?

Good luck to you and I know its frustrating and takes time just hang in there! your pup will learn sooner than later what you want and he will be able to do that for ya! in the mean time just make sure you are taking him out plenty and everytime he goes potty outside reward, reward, reward :)
 
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