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Discussion Starter #1
In two weeks, my family are all going to our lakehouse and we want to be able to let our dog off leash and have her on the e collar because she will run away otherwise. The problem is, when we put the e collar on her, she just stops being herself. She is extremely scared of it, and when we put it on her she just lies under all the tables, sometimes won't even go to the toilet and just gets really snuggly. Don't get me wrong, when we put it on she gets really nice, but she won't do anything, won't play fetch, run around, she won't do anything.
 

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Well, the simple answer is to not use an electronic collar, since you are seeing the fallout from that type of training.

If you want to be able to let her off lead, then you need to train a recall. There is a DVD called Really Reliable Recalls that is very helpful. Clean Run Really Reliable Recall DVD There is also an online class on teaching recalls coming up in August. Fenzi Dog Sports Academy - FE240: Calling All Dogs

Meanwhile, you will have to keep her on a leash or long line.
 

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Stop using it then she is obviously scared stiff this damn torture device.
use a long lead keep her penned take her for walks actually try putting effort into this instead of just letting her run around.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
I don't think that is the solution. It is not a torture device and for your information, we only ever use the beep aspect of it to alert her. We just want to know how to get her used to it and your comment was not helpful.
 

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I don't think that is the solution. It is not a torture device and for your information, we only ever use the beep aspect of it to alert her. We just want to know how to get her used to it and your comment was not helpful.
That was about Pandora's comment. In regards to LeoRose we have done so much recall training. My dog is a chaser though. Inside the house and backyard, we say come she sprints. Out of the house, she could not care less, even with treats.
 

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I do agree that you should stop using it because of how scared she is of it and it takes just as much training to perfect recall. A longline would also work if your dog is like mine who although attached, will happily leave me to go hunt down local wildlife. E-collars can also be very distressing to "soft" or "sensitive" dogs that do not react well to correction based training like an E-Collar( this also applies for timid and/or unconfident dogs)...
 

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Well, I'm not sure what else you'd expect. Those are all classic indications of improper use, whether you're only activating the ecollar's warning function or otherwise. Regardless, overall it's simply not working for you. I'd even go as far as saying that your dog's life is miserable because of it. Hard to say for sure, without getting unduly judge-y, but IMO perhaps it's even bordering on cruelty on your part? Maybe. So in light of that I'd also strongly agree with the other posters suggestions of ditching the ecollar entirely. In this case, it's probably best to err on the side of caution.

As for recall training, sounds like you haven't properly "proofed" your dog in high distraction environments. And until you do that ... properly and thoroughly ... your dog will likely fall short of your expectations.

Concentrate your efforts on proofing, increasing distractions gradually. Use only positive reinforcement methods. Watch the recommended DVD asap, and sign up for the on-line class for August. In the meantime throw away the ecollar.
 

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My belief may vary from the majority, but IMO there are very few dogs who can be trained by us ordinary folks to have such a reliable recall that the dog is safe off leash. Other dogs, deer, small animals, there are just too many things that can cause a dog to tune out everything but that lure. My dogs are only off leash in my fenced yard and for certain competitions. Some dogs will run out of an obedience ring (never mine to date, knock on wood), but at least there are enough other dogs and people around in that situation that the runner is caught quickly. My dogs are leashed when off my property. Always. It's for their protection.

I'd say a dog that is so sensitive to the beep of an e-collar that she behaves as described is too sensitive for its use.
 

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Unfortunately, "just a beep" does not say anything about the effect the collar has on your dog. One of the biggest points shock collar users make is to have the human try it out to see how 'harmless' it is. But that action only shows a human deciding their perceptions being more important than the dog's. And from a simple behavior perspective, that is not how any learning works in any animal. Besides the fact that dogs have different epidermal and nerve structures than we do, even if it was 'just' a beep or a tickle, we don't know how that dog will perceive that sensation.

A good analogy is situations surrounding human fear. If you were afraid of spiders, would it convince you to hold one if your friend reassured, "this one can't bite you - it's harmless!"? There is proof everywhere that just because a stimulus is literally harmless, doesn't speak to the psychological and physiological effects on the dog's mind and body.

I am sure that you love your dog and you just want her to be able to enjoy freedom and be safe. But objectively speaking, your dog is showing extreme signs of fear when this tool is applied. If you've only used the beep, then I can't even imagine how you would begin to desensitize her to the collar. I am not here to call you an abuser or torturer. But you have already identified the problem - this tool is not a good fit for your dog. Honestly, this is exactly how these collars work. The dog becomes too afraid of consequences to run away. Your dog is just having a more extreme reaction than other dogs might. Most owners would find this acceptable - if a dog is too scared to cross boundaries, they see the problem as fixed because the dog won't run away. I commend you for caring about your dog's emotions and mental wellbeing. And I understand that you don't want to see your dog cowering every time the device is put on. There are other solutions to keeping a dog safe and getting them exercise and enrichment outdoors. I hope you find a happy solution for yourself and your dog.
 

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My dog is hard as hell but he hates the smoke alarm low battery beep. Acts like it's going to murder us all. It'd be unkind to put a beeping collar on him. Can't even imagine how upsetting it could be to a more sensitive dog.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Thank you for your thoughts. You have convinced me that I shouldn't use the e collar. I seriously don't know what to do though. At my lake house, we have a super long leash for my dog, but she just wants to keep going further. She is an explorer by heart, and she hates any type of leash. When she was a puppy she was scared, so we could let her off leash and she would come back. If we accidentaly let the door open she would just hang around our backyard. Now if we accidentally leave the door open, she sprints. When my I lived in England, I went to several training sessions when she was a puppy. These were focused on recall. There were other dogs just around her and she would still come. There were even people squeaking toys and clapping. It's just outdoors. I feel sorry for her. She loves running through the lake, playing fetch just being free. When I go on walks with her, she wants to be off leash and sniff things. I just don't know what else to do. Do you have any suggestions?
 

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Long leads are a great way to do those things with your dog! The longer the better. I have a German Pointer so I can relate to the things you are saying but for her safety and the wildlife's I keep her on a leash at all times. Even when we went hiking my dog was on a leash (she is 13 now and the vet said hiking and similar activities are a no-go).
 

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I think compromise is present in all parts of dog ownership. It's not that your dog can never run free or explore. But maybe she can run free in safer areas, or go on a hike with you on a long line? That way she still gets to experience the outdoors, run, swim, etc. She just doesn't need to have endless borders to her exploration. We all want our dogs to be happy and experience those unbridled moments. But indulging that is kind of like letting kids choose their own menu - no one should be surprised if they would choose candy and pizza for three meals a day. So same for your dog. I'm sure you can find areas and times when she can run off leash, situations where she can explore in a more controlled way, and maybe even some times when she's not allowed to be off leash or far (ex. in a new area, perhaps).

The only thing about long lines is you should use it with a harness. Hopefully your pup is not afraid of that. But it protects your dog if she gets tangled or hits the end of the line. Better that the pressure is on her body and not her neck.

It also sounds like she loved training and did great at recall games in the past. You're right that once a dog experiences off leash freedom it can be hard to motivate them to be more restrained. And I have seen dogs refuse food once off leash outside. But if you go back to basics and start doing some training with treats, especially on the long line, your dog should be able to relearn all those skills. And maybe she can even be trustworthy off leash again :)
Best of luck!
 

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I don't think that is the solution. It is not a torture device and for your information, we only ever use the beep aspect of it to alert her. We just want to know how to get her used to it and your comment was not helpful.
Heres the thing torture does not have to involve physical pain. So if I point a gun at you and command you to do something you comply, not because Ive hurt you but because Ive scared you, the gun doesnt have to be loaded the mere implication or something worse to come is enough.
You claim you only beep your dog but this beep terrifies her therefore to continue using it is torture you are trying to train by fear which is another method comdemned by most decent trainers and countries. The reason she gets snuggley is not because she want to be with you its because she knows if she strays you will beep her so she is making herself submissive to you to avoid punishment. Thats sad for her and pathetic as a training method.

You didnt like my answer not because it wasnt helpful but it challenged your way of doing things.
The advice is sound stop using the collar and start using a long line or a fence or actually walking with your dog instead of letting her roam.

I know thats not the answer you want but its the only sound one there is. As for my challenge to your methods its not just me millions of people and many countries and lawmakers feel the same way.. I dont think we are all wrong.
 

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You can purchase very long lines for your dog on Amazon. I used a 100ft line to walk my dog when we lived in town because the parks and large green areas were quite close to streets and other people's houses, and even though my dog has a pretty great recall, the risk of a giant jackrabbit popping up and leading my dog on a chase right into a car was a little more risk than I wanted to take. Long lines are really great options to give your dog some freedom, as well as have complete control.

I must second some advice state above, ALWAYS use a harness with a long line. I purchased a harness for a reasonable price from Amazon, as well.
 

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Heres the thing torture does not have to involve physical pain. So if I point a gun at you and command you to do something you comply, not because Ive hurt you but because Ive scared you, the gun doesnt have to be loaded the mere implication or something worse to come is enough.
You claim you only beep your dog but this beep terrifies her therefore to continue using it is torture you are trying to train by fear which is another method comdemned by most decent trainers and countries. The reason she gets snuggley is not because she want to be with you its because she knows if she strays you will beep her so she is making herself submissive to you to avoid punishment. Thats sad for her and pathetic as a training method.

You didnt like my answer not because it wasnt helpful but it challenged your way of doing things.
The advice is sound stop using the collar and start using a long line or a fence or actually walking with your dog instead of letting her roam.

I know thats not the answer you want but its the only sound one there is. As for my challenge to your methods its not just me millions of people and many countries and lawmakers feel the same way.. I dont think we are all wrong.
The OP already decided not to use the E-collar...
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Ok, I think I'm going to look into the long lead because it seems perfect for a dog like her. I have one other question though. My dog has a habit of table surfing. We have tried so many things to try to get her to stop, but nothing seems to stick. The e collar did help with that, but I now realise it was just because she was scared. Does anyone have any training tips as to how I can get this habit to stop?
 

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Table/counter surfing is a self-rewarding behavior. The most effective solution is to avoid the opportunity and keep food off an untended table or counter.

Pick your battles.
 
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