[J_hulk]

HI i am interested in creating a new dog breed and im wondering if any of you guys have the same desire. i know this is a touchy subject for alot of you guys and im not trying to step on anyones toes or trying to start and arguement with anyone. if anyone else has wondered about this or has a desire pm me. the purpose of this dog would be the ultimate gaurd dog/nanny dog i know alot of you guys are thinking great another dumb person trying to make mutts. im really not trying to make any mutts. the ideal starting stock would be a co for the gaurding instinct and the newfoundland for the gentleness and the nanny-ness. im not trying to create a designer dog or anything and i understand that this will take decades to do. and i also understand that it takes alot of money which isnt a problem since i own a couple businesses. also i know that i need to do alot of research with is why i wont be attempting this for years to come. please like i said no bashing critisizm is welcome ideas are also welcome but please no arguements for petes sake

 

[Pawzk9]

I don't think you get to tell people how to respond, And likely you'll get some answers you won't like. That's life on an internet forum. Thing is, when you breed two breeds together with VERY different characteristics, you don't get something in the middle, You get some characteristics from column A and some from column B. And some of the mixtures might be dangerous. Particularly with selecting for such specific behaviors, do you just put them out with children and see which ones work? Do you put down the ones who are too protective? Or not protective enough? Quite honestly, people shouldn't be trusting the care of their children to the family pet, or trusting that pet to know the best way to protect the children. Especially with very large dogs, and with CO included, this could create a lawsuit worthy situation. Telling people that the dog they buy will be a "nanny" creates unreasonable expectations, and putting the dog in situations they may not be prepared for.

 

[J_hulk]

I don't think you get to tell people how to respond, And likely you'll get some answers you won't like. That's life on an internet forum. Thing is, when you breed two breeds together with VERY different characteristics, you don't get something in the middle, You get some characteristics from column A and some from column B. And some of the mixtures might be dangerous. Particularly with selecting for such specific behaviors, do you just put them out with children and see which ones work? Do you put down the ones who are too protective? Or not protective enough? Quite honestly, people shouldn't be trusting the care of their children to the family pet, or trusting that pet to know the best way to protect the children. Especially with very large dogs, and with CO included, this could create a lawsuit worth situation. Telling people that the dog they buy will be a "nanny" creates unreasonable expectations, and putting the dog in situations they may not be prepared for.

im not telling people how to reply. im just asking them to not be so nasty with there response seeing as this is a touchy subject. im just looking for some feedback on it. some tips, some do's and dont's things to stay away from. like i said i know this is a very touchy subject and im not trying to start an arguement. i understand that people shouldnt be trusting there pet to that degree but for some people like me and my dad and my whole family for that matter. we dont believe in keeping guns incase the kids find it and what not. our way of thinking is we get a dog and hopefully deter would be robbers from trying to break in. when you look at it like that at least in my eyes it makes sense

 

[boxerlover876]

We already have it just like you said...the Newfoundland. It should have an instinct to guard as it goes along with the "nanniness". Train them to guard if you wanted, there's lots of personal protection trainers.

Problem solved.

 

[boxerlover876]

And what's a co? Probably just a dumb moment on my side.

 

[PatchworkRobot]

We already have it just like you said...the Newfoundland. It should have an instinct to guard as it goes along with the "nanniness". Train them to guard if you wanted, there's lots of personal protection trainers.

Problem solved.

Thats the same thing I was thinking.

 

[J_hulk]

We already have it just like you said...the Newfoundland. It should have an instinct to guard as it goes along with the "nanniness". Train them to guard if you wanted, there's lots of personal protection trainers.

Problem solved.

yes but some people cant handle big dog breeds. and personal protection trainers can cost up to 25,000$ or at least the ones that ive seen advertised, and i doubt the general public has that much money laying around to spend on dog training.

a co is a caucasian ovcharka or caucasian shepherd or mountain dog whatever you want to call it. its a very beautiful dog google it. it looks like a bear crossed with a lion

 

[J_hulk]

Thats the same thing I was thinking.

very nice doberman on your avatar

 

[boxerlover876]

Thats the same thing I was thinking.

Exactly.

Not top mention genetics is freaky, weird, and complicated. It's not something you can just mess around with. Things mutate and create so many problems sometimes, not too mention not everything will breed true. You could create an absolute monster with crazy health, behavior, mental, physical, etc. problems. Leave breeding to the pros; especially with creating new breeds. And no, I do not count myself as a pro.

 

[Pawzk9]

im not telling people how to reply. im just asking them to not be so nasty with there response seeing as this is a touchy subject. im just looking for some feedback on it. some tips, some do's and dont's things to stay away from. like i said i know this is a very touchy subject and im not trying to start an arguement. i understand that people shouldnt be trusting there pet to that degree but for some people like me and my dad and my whole family for that matter. we dont believe in keeping guns incase the kids find it and what not. our way of thinking is we get a dog and hopefully deter would be robbers from trying to break in. when you look at it like that at least in my eyes it makes sense

And when you've got a dog (particularly a big dog) that barks that IS a deterrant. Of course, if you have a really dedicated home invader, he'll just shoot your dog and come in anyway.

 

[aiw]

My instinct is to say DONT DO IT!!! But in my experience people will do what they want regardless of internet advice. I'll just say this... dont get into this lightly. Do you have prior experience breeding dogs? Have you ever shown dogs before? Whelped them and raised puppies? Before creating a new breed you need to be extremely familiar with how an established breed was created and is bred nowadays. Find a reputable breeder and take a look at what really goes into the practice, I think you will be surprised by the investment, emotional and financial that these people put into their dogs. Read everything you can get your hands on, about breeding in general and the breeds you are considering specifically. Make sure to look specifically at the dangers of improper or uneducated breeding, you could end up with very sick pups or a safety liability, especially with a breed like the CO. I worry that you're expectations are unrealistic, mixing aggressive/guarding qualities with an affinity for children could be disastrous, what if one of the dogs you create turns that aggressive nature towards a child? What if it decides it needs to guard a child from its parent? I'm not bashing here and I'm not necessarily against the creation of new breeds, but I am against it being done irresponsibly. Research and prepare for this the way you would for a business, in my opinion the stakes here are even higher because these are living beings and people's safety is at stake. I'm glad to hear you're going to wait to start this project, its a massive undertaking.

 

[boxerlover876]

Just looking at pictures of the CO I can already see health problems that would be created...

And a CO is just as big. Not too mention their temperament can be unstable. I would never mix those two. Plus, I highly doubt you'll be able to get good stock from a responsible breeder if they know you're going to cross those two, it'd be a mess.

 

[Willowy]

yes but some people cant handle big dog breeds. and personal protection trainers can cost up to 25,000$ or at least the ones that ive seen advertised, and i doubt the general public has that much money laying around to spend on dog training.

Um, how big do you think COs are?

Trying to make a "nanny dog" out of a breed made for human aggression sounds like a lawsuit waiting to happen. And, already touched on, but creating a new breed makes a lot of "in-between" dogs, that can't be sold as the breed. And not many people want big hairy mutts. What will you do with them? Just kill them? Place them in unsuitable homes (where they'll likely end up killed and maybe take someone with them)?

 

[J_hulk]

My instinct is to say DONT DO IT!!! But in my experience people will do what they want regardless of internet advice. I'll just say this... dont get into this lightly. Do you have prior experience breeding dogs? Have you ever shown dogs before? Whelped them and raised puppies? Before creating a new breed you need to be extremely familiar with how an established breed was created and is bred nowadays. Find a reputable breeder and take a look at what really goes into the practice, I think you will be surprised by the investment, emotional and financial that these people put into their dogs. Read everything you can get your hands on, about breeding in general and the breeds you are considering specifically. Make sure to look specifically at the dangers of improper or uneducated breeding, you could end up with very sick pups or a safety liability, especially with a breed like the CO. I worry that you're expectations are unrealistic, mixing aggressive/guarding qualities with an affinity for children could be disastrous, what if one of the dogs you create turns that aggressive nature towards a child? What if it decides it needs to guard a child from its parent? I'm not bashing here and I'm not necessarily against the creation of new breeds, but I am against it being done irresponsibly. Research and prepare for this the way you would for a business, in my opinion the stakes here are even higher because these are living beings and people's safety is at stake. I'm glad to hear you're going to wait to start this project, its a massive undertaking.

i have experience breeding dogs ive bred dogs from english bull dogs, ive bred newfoundlands with my dad and all sorts of other dogs up to neo mastiffs and french mastiffs. i dont plan on doing it irresponsibly i plan on taking my time and actually know exactly what i want. right now im just throwing ideas. like pretty much brainstorming. i just want other people opinions on this. ive learned the hard way to not just jump into something that its good to get others opinions about things.
show dog no ive never bred them before. i really appreciate your answer on this. very informative.

 

[Nev Allen]

J_Hulk, Your thinking is outside the box. No doubt about it. There are absolutely tons of breeds out there that will act as a detterent to a would be criminal and come home and lick the kids to death.

My border collie used to excell at attack work and regularly beat Rotties, GSD and Dobs in competition. If you came within 10 feet of my young kids without permission, you were on dangerous turf. My daghter however was able to trip all over her, and rough house and pull ears, all without so much as a lip twitch.

It is all in the training buddy. Select any breed you like, even a chihuahua, and train it properly and thoroughly and it will do what you want.

However, at the end of the day, all it takes is either a bitch in season or a juicey T Bone steak and your guard dog will become a puppy.

 

[J_hulk]

Um, how big do you think COs are?

Trying to make a "nanny dog" out of a breed made for human aggression sounds like a lawsuit waiting to happen. And, already touched on, but creating a new breed makes a lot of "in-between" dogs, that can't be sold as the breed. And not many people want big hairy mutts. What will you do with them? Just kill them? Place them in unsuitable homes (where they'll likely end up killed and maybe take someone with them)?

the ones ive researched about get range from 26-31.5 inches at the withers and range from 130-180 lbs thats not the standard but the general range for them

 

[boxerlover876]

i have experience breeding dogs ive bred dogs from english bull dogs, ive bred newfoundlands with my dad and all sorts of other dogs up to neo mastiffs and french mastiffs. i dont plan on doing it irresponsibly i plan on taking my time and actually know exactly what i want. right now im just throwing ideas. like pretty much brainstorming. i just want other people opinions on this. ive learned the hard way to not just jump into something that its good to get others opinions about things.
show dog no ive never bred them before. i really appreciate your answer on this. very informative.

I think the real question is have you bred responsibly? You know, health tests, temperament tests, meeting the standard, etc. I'm guessing you haven't. Those breeds are all over the place and you haven't shown. And it interests me you say French Mastiff versus Dogue De Bordeaux.

 

[Willowy]

the ones ive researched about get range from 26-31.5 inches at the withers and range from 130-180 lbs thats not the standard but the general range for them

Yeah, and you said people can't handle big dogs? That's pretty darn big.

And you didn't answer about what you're going to do with the in-between dogs or how you plan to get a breed known for HA not to eat children.

 

[lucidity]

Uh,.... Caucasian Ovcharkas are the same size as Newfoundlands.. only Newfies are fluffier.

 

[PatchworkRobot]

very nice doberman on your avatar

Thank you! He's the best and I"m going to use him as an example as I touch on your next post.

the ones ive researched about get range from 26-31.5 inches at the withers and range from 130-180 lbs thats not the standard but the general range for them

The top of standard for a doberman is 28inches at the shoulders and about 96lb. While they are technically a "medium"-sized breed the general public things that they're large dogs. I agree with you completely when you say that "some people cannot handle big dogs" and, if that's the case, why would you put a CO in the mix? Compared to a Doberman (often considered to be a big dog by the general public), the CO is super huge.