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Discussion Starter #1
Don't hear much about this food.

I'm like so incredibly happy with Fromm, their company, etc. He is almost through the bag of Duck and Sweet Potato and we just got a free bag on Black Friday of Pork & Applesauce.

However, he's been itching a lot more than usual, and also licking his butt. Anal glands don't seem to be an issue - he was just groomed a week and a half ago, he's been to the vet for his yearly three weeks ago, no fleas or anything, so I'm thinking it's got to be some sort of allergies, whether environmental or food, I don't know.

But the Fromm does have a lot of ingredients. I really really love this company and was sure I found THE ONE. But I want to do an experiment and see if the itching begins to go away on something else. Which is gonna suck because I really love Fromm. They have two new lower fat grain free foods coming out in Jan that I'll be interested in.

Went to the mall and the movies tonight, and on way stopped in at our pet boutique. I saw a 4lb bag of Lotus. It looked pretty perfect - I wanted simple, easy to digest, not TOO high in fat but not too low.

Now, it was a bit pricey... $20 with tax for 4lbs. So that kind of sucked. But thought it was worth a shot.

Now, it's different than any kibble I've seen - it looks more like a treat. Apparently, it's oven baked.

I got the grainfree Duck formula:
http://www.lotuspetfoods.com/dry-dog-duck.php

Duck, Duck Meal, Tapioca Flour, Fish Meal, Dried Peas, Dried Potatoes, Pea Fiber, Dried Egg Product, Dried Sweet Potatoes, Soybean Oil, (Preserved with Mixed Tocopherols and Citric Acid), Sea Salt, Brewers Dried Yeast, Ground Flax seed, Olive Oil, Salmon Oil, Carrots, Apples, Potassium Chloride, Calcium Carbonate, Pumpkin, Spinach, Blueberries, Garlic, Zinc Proteinate, Iron Proteinate, Vitamin E Supplement, Dicalcium Phosphate, Copper Proteinate, Manganese Proteinate, Niacin, Sodium Selenite, Calcium Pantothenate, Chicory Root Extract, Yucca schidigera, Dried Kelp, Dried Lactobacillus Acidophilus, Lactobacillus Lactis, and Lactobacillus Casei, fermentation solubles, Folic Acid, Vitamin A Supplement, Riboflavin, Calcium Iodate, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Thiamine Mononitrate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (source of Vitamin B6), Vitamin D3 Supplement and Rosemary Extract.

Crude Protein (Min) 27.0%
Crude Fat (Min) 12.0%
Crude Fiber (Max) 6.0%
Moisture (Max) 10.0%
Vitamin E (Min) 100 IU/kg
Omega 3 Fatty Acids* (Min) 0.75%
Omega 6 Fatty Acids* (Min) 2.50%
Ascorbic Acid (Vitamin C)* (Min) 250mg/kg
Ash 8.46%
Calcium 1.66%
Phosphorous 1.23%
Sodium 0.792%
Magnesium 0.040%
I got the Regular Bites which says it's Calorie Content (ME, calculation): 3,273kcal/kg (367.8kcal/cup) but when I look on the website, the Small Bites say One standard 8oz measuring cup = 4oz of food.
Calorie Content (ME, calculation): 3,273kcal/kg (619.5kcal/cup) Why the big difference between Small Bites and Regular? (367 vs. 619?!)

I don't wanna over-feed, but it seems the bag guidelines are WAY over-estimates. It says for a 5lb dog to feed 3/4 cup... that's what I typically feed 16lb Jackson. However with the Small Bites it recommends an 8lb dog to be fed 1/2 cup.

Anyways I am just confused if it's supposed to be fed different than regular kibble. I gave Jackson 2/3 cup tonight and he scarfed it down.
 

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If the goal of switching foods is to find out if he is allergic to something, I would NOT use this food. It has multiple protain sources as well as multiples types of veggies. I would switch him to something like Natural Balance LID, something without Duck or Sweet Potato. If his allergies go away, then you know he's allergic to one of those, if he doesn't it may be environmental.
 

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After studying dog food for a few months now, I would wonder about the garlic and the soy (soybean oil) IMHO ?
 

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Discussion Starter #4
LOL I am so weird and wish-washy. I returned the Lotus - the kibble was kind of weird and after the initial excitement of something new, Jackson kept going over and sniffing it, and not really knowing what to do. But I couldn't find much about Lotus in general (and some ingredients seemed a bit weird to me) and they were too expensive for me to continue feeding all the time anyways, so I decided to return it while I could and we are just going to begin Acana again which I should have probably done a long time ago. I was worried about the fat content... but I honestly don't believe it matters now (and it's not super high, either), I don't even think Jackson had pancreatitis, which is why I was worried about it and even if he did, it's been months. And we were always happiest with Acana in the past so I'm done with the food wish-wash thing. I was perfectly happy with Acana for about a year and I hope it still works for us. So if all goes well, we'll finish the bag of Acana, see if the itching goes away, or if it even has to do anything with food, and keep the Fromm around as well. If the itching starts up again, then I'll know/guess it's the Fromm.

LOL, I am crazy. I just never felt totally satisfied or comfortable with Natural Balance, Cali Natural, etc, etc, for him, even though I never had any MAJOR problems with them. I just think he's an active little dude who needed a bit more and from a company that I at least 98% trust (Champion and Fromm being my first two trustworthy companies, also Petcurean).

Thanks guys!
 

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May I suggest one of the two new Nature's Variety's Limited Ingredient Diets? Working very well for my dog who has allergies/food sensitivities. Be aware, this food bag looks alot like their regular bags...I was at Pet Co & thought they had the LID ones but they don't, the bag sure looked like the one I had! Have you ever tried The Honest Kitchen? I'm in the process of putting both of mine on it for both meals.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
I'm not sure if he really HAS allergies. He's never had them in the past; he's three years old now. So I guess it's kind of trial and error. It may just be the dry air or something causing him to be a bit itchier. It's not like obsessive itching... it's just more so than usual for him, but still nothing insane or crazy. So it may not even be the food.

I fed NV Instinct (regular) in the past but was uncomfortable with the 22% minimum fat levels. I think that is a bit pushing it for me. 17% in Acana is as high as I will go. But yeah, the LID lines look really good -- I will look into them, thanks!

I got a sample of THK at one point and Jackson looked at it like I was nuts. He's all about texture and stuff, and I know he just wouldn't eat that stuff. Plus it was so pricey.

I'm also waiting for the new Go! and Now! formulas to come out. Some look like they'd work great for us, so hopefully our store gets them in soon. :) For now, I'm really hoping the Acana works well like it did for us in the past.
 

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I dunno, I bought a bag of Instinct Duck (4lbs) just to try... but it's giving the dogs seriously soft poo, which I'm really not happy about :( I had to mix some grained kibble in to get their poo to firm up! And I was decreasing their food intake like crazy on the Instinct. They usually get 1/2 cup a day but I had lowered it down to maybe 3/4 of the 1/2 cup. They were HUNGRY, but their poop just kept coming out soft. So right now I've decided to just feed them both a mixture of the Instinct and another grained food (Nutri Edge--given to me by Lyra's previous owners... I hadn't planned on feeding it at all) and that solved the soft poo problem. I think Instinct is maybe just too rich for the dogs... which is odd, because Cadence always did just fine on Orijen and EVO.

Honestly, I think Acana is my favourite to feed as well... I just kind of like rotating foods, though! I like all the Champion Petfoods brands--Acana, Orijen, etc. My 2nd favourite would be TOTW. The dogs do pretty well on that too.

Cadence HATED THK too. He didn't even think it was food. Seriously, I think I would've been better off feeding him rice. I had to pretty much throw the whole pack out. He does LOVE LOVE LOVE Ziwipeak though!
 

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I dunno, I bought a bag of Instinct Duck (4lbs) just to try... but it's giving the dogs seriously soft poo, which I'm really not happy about :( I had to mix some grained kibble in to get their poo to firm up! And I was decreasing their food intake like crazy on the Instinct. They usually get 1/2 cup a day but I had lowered it down to maybe 3/4 of the 1/2 cup. They were HUNGRY, but their poop just kept coming out soft. So right now I've decided to just feed them both a mixture of the Instinct and another grained food (Nutri Edge--given to me by Lyra's previous owners... I hadn't planned on feeding it at all) and that solved the soft poo problem. I think Instinct is maybe just too rich for the dogs... which is odd, because Cadence always did just fine on Orijen and EVO.

Honestly, I think Acana is my favourite to feed as well... I just kind of like rotating foods, though! I like all the Champion Petfoods brands--Acana, Orijen, etc. My 2nd favourite would be TOTW. The dogs do pretty well on that too.

Cadence HATED THK too. He didn't even think it was food. Seriously, I think I would've been better off feeding him rice. I had to pretty much throw the whole pack out. He does LOVE LOVE LOVE Ziwipeak though!
Not just you but when I hear that people's dogs didn't like THK, I wonder two things. First, did they, the owners, give off a "wtf is this s**t" vibe and/or actually say that (since dogs can sense things, I;m quite sure if I didn't want to feed something or thought it weird, some of mine may have not eaten it) and second, did they add a little bit to their kibble over & over, or put it in a kong to give them a chance to like it? I have feed THK to many many dogs, since I've had quite a few new dogs come into the family since I found the stuff and not one of mine wouldn't eat it after awhile.
 

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Nope, I tried for weeks. First I added warm water like the instructions say... no go, he sniffed and walked away. Then I gave it dry. Still no go. After that I tried hand feeding it to him, and he wouldn't even take it! He usually eats whatever I hand feed, just because it's hand fed, lol. After that I didn't know what to do with the rest of the pack so I started feeding it to the stray cats outside (added water)... and even they didn't want to eat it, so yup... I had to throw it away. :( It sucked because I spent a lot of money on that one pack!
 

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We sell THK at the training center and its our most returned food. Addiction dehydrated raw seems to be returned almost never.

As for lotus i like it so far (i only feed dog food once a week so take my review for what it is :D). I read the review in TWDJ i think it was and they seemed pretty pleased with it.

Have to say i do love fromm too. The company have just rocked my socks so far!
 

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I must be really lucky because all dogs we've had have loved THK. I wish I knew you were going to throw it out, I'd have purchased it from you!
 

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Lol, I would have gladly given it to you! Definitely better than throwing it out.

Katielou, I tried Addiction as well.. I think it was the lamb flavour. Cadence also hated it. -__- It was weird.. the food smelled like herbs? It reminded me of a Chinese medicine store, lol.
 

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I fed NV Instinct (regular) in the past but was uncomfortable with the 22% minimum fat levels. I think that is a bit pushing it for me. 17% in Acana is as high as I will go. But yeah, the LID lines look really good -- I will look into them, thanks!
Why does more than 17% fat scare you? Fat does not make dogs fat like it does in humans. They are able to use it for energy just like they do with protein. Sure you don't want a Ton of it, but 22% certainly will not hurt.

I dunno, I bought a bag of Instinct Duck (4lbs) just to try... but it's giving the dogs seriously soft poo, which I'm really not happy about :( I had to mix some grained kibble in to get their poo to firm up! And I was decreasing their food intake like crazy on the Instinct. They usually get 1/2 cup a day but I had lowered it down to maybe 3/4 of the 1/2 cup. They were HUNGRY, but their poop just kept coming out soft. So right now I've decided to just feed them both a mixture of the Instinct and another grained food (Nutri Edge--given to me by Lyra's previous owners... I hadn't planned on feeding it at all) and that solved the soft poo problem. I think Instinct is maybe just too rich for the dogs... which is odd, because Cadence always did just fine on Orijen and EVO.
The thing about grains is that when you switch off of them, the dog's system no longer has to comprimise for the hard to digest celulose and whatnot, so the poo ends up being soft. If you had waited it out, the poops would have gone back to normal in a couple weeks.
 

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Discussion Starter #14 (Edited)
Why does more than 17% fat scare you? Fat does not make dogs fat like it does in humans. They are able to use it for energy just like they do with protein. Sure you don't want a Ton of it, but 22% certainly will not hurt.
I watch Jackson's fat because he may have had pancreatitis. We're not 100% certain. He had classic symptoms of it, and his lipase levels were increased (he stayed over 24hrs in hospital on IV's) but current vet believes it was just bad GI upset. Either way, I've slowly been introducing more fat into his diet and I would certainly not feed him 22% fat, which I believe is a bit much for a pancreatitis-prone breed anyways.

Right off the "attack", of course the vet put him on Purina EN which I was not happy about. But we used it for about a month following just to get things back in order. Keep in mind, this attack of whatever came on after eating too many human fatty foods, so it was not caused by dog food. He had eaten Acana for a year and then TOTW Lamb for a few months and then this happened. He had eaten grainfree food his whole life though. But we transitioned from EN to a few other lower fat grain inclusive foods and actually had pretty good results in general. He's never had a sensitive stomach in the past but I worry since his one event, if it was pancreatitis, he's more prone to it happening again.

I did briefly feed Instinct (before Acana, etc) but he gained weight on it in a short amount of time and I was feeding WAY less than recommended amount. I don't like to have to cut back THAT much on food either for him. He's a very active dog and enjoys eating!
 

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The thing about grains is that when you switch off of them, the dog's system no longer has to comprimise for the hard to digest celulose and whatnot, so the poo ends up being soft. If you had waited it out, the poops would have gone back to normal in a couple weeks.
Nope, that wasn't the problem. My dogs are always fed grainfree--if you re read my post, the grained food that I added wasn't bought by me. My dogs are always fed Acana grainfree, Orijen, or TOTW--all grainfree foods. They only had problems with Instinct, not the other foods.

Their soft poo only went away when I added sweet potatoes into their diet. But when I stopped adding that, their soft poo came back. They were on Instinct for a month--no change.
 

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Have you considered.Wellness' Simple Solutions line? I think they are for.allergies but also for sensitove.stomachs. Not that Jackson has sensitive tummy per se, but with a history of possible pancreatitis, a simpler food may be the answer. I couldn't find in your post whether you prefer grain-free though. Just a thought.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Yeah, I am kind of thinking simpler is better. We're on the 4th day of Acana and his poo just hasn't been like I want it to be. I know that's gross, lol, but it's still just a bit soft. It's formed and all, but not very firm. I'm still going to give it more time though.

I will say that his bit of itching seems to have decreased significantly. But maybe that's pure coincidence and was just environmental. I gave him a regular bath last night too so we'll see.

Because I really want to stick with the Fromm so I really hope it wasn't that food making him itchy. In all other aspects, he did great on the Duck & Sweet potato, and now I have our free bag of the Pork and Applesauce to try.
 

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On a fb forum I'm on, someone mentioned California Natural herring & sweet potato. I kind of forgot about that. Five years ago, when i was looking for something for Boone with no chicken, corn, wheat, soy, rice or flax, that was one of three foods. I don't know if Orijen or Acana was around then but TOTW was not. Boone did great on this particular Cal Nat.
 

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P&G has bought over the company that makes California Natural (and Evo, Innova, Healthwise) though, so I stopped buying it :( Kind of sad because I actually really liked their foods... but P&G is scum and I absolutely refuse to buy anything they sell.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
I haven't seen nor heard of any changes yet with the P&G and I would still feed their foods if they worked for my dog. EVO is too high in protein/fat/calories/everything for my liking. We did try a sample of Innova once, or maybe he was on it as a pup, but he never much liked the taste of it. I fed a bag of California Natural grain-free lamb in September, I think, and he actually seemed to really enjoy it and do well on it for the most part. His coat had started looking a little dull to me, but I'm not sure if that's going to be THAT noticeable after only one bag of food. So again, may have been something else.

The thing with Jackson is, most kibbles he's been on he does well for the most part. It's only really small subtle changes that I notice with different ones, such as softer poo, maybe a bit smellier breath, or some gas, or something. But he's never had any like OMG-I'd-never-feed-that-food-again food, LOL. So for him it's just a matter of me being picky and noticing little things with each kibble he's been on.

Btw, I've been feeding Weruva canned foods to him for a few months now and he LOVES those. I mix in a bit. Low fat, but they look like real people food, chicken noodle soup or something. I wanna eat them they look so tasty. Unlike other smelly canned foods I've fed, I'm really happy with it.
 
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