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Discussion Starter #1
Hi All,

I am hoping you all can assist me (admin, please move if this is posted in the wrong place). I was wondering if any of you knew of any Miniature American Shepherd breeders in or around KY. I have done some research/googling of some breeders but as you may know, a good website doesn't mean anything. I found a thread on here about miniature american shepherds but the thread is pretty old, so I wanted to start a new one. Anyone know of any good, responsible MAS breeders in or around KY?

Thank you for your time!
 

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Most national breed clubs have a list of member breeders. This is the link to the MAS club. MASCUSA

Two main things to consider are a) what are they doing with their dogs besides just breeding them? and b) what health testing are they doing?

Ideally, breeders will title their dogs in conformation and performance sports. However, people who don't title, but actively work their dogs on stock are not to be written off, as that is the job the breed was designed to do.

MAS, like many herding breeds, can have a genetic mutation that makes them more sensitive to certain drugs than dogs without the mutation. Always ask to see the hard copies of any testing results. It's actually a good idea to check the OFA website https://www.ofa.org/ to see what tests are recommended for MAS.

If they are breeding merle x merle, that is someone to avoid like the plague, as it can result in puppies that are deaf, blind, or both.
 

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LeoRose,

Thank you very much for your reply! I did look into the AKC Breeder of Merit but never thought about seeing if MAS has a club. I will definitely look into the MAS club more. I come from the GSD world, so health tests are important to me and I have read about the health concerns about merle x merle; however, that is totally different than what I know in the GSD world.

May I ask your thoughts on the following.... on the AKC website, under the breeder profile, there is a section where it lists the following :

AKC Registration Application Provided

AKC National Breed Club Member: Miniature American Shepherd Club of the USA, United States Australian Shepherd Association

AKC Specialty Club Member

AKC Licensed/AKC Member All-Breed Club

Dogs Compete in AKC Events: Conformation, Agility, Performance


How much should one take consideration of this? I have read that even though it might seem like a good idea to find puppies through the AKC website, sometimes it is not because it is just a platform for anyone to sell their puppies. Kind of like a Facebook marketplace. Ideally, a breeder should have all those items checked, right?

Thank you so much for your time!
 

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All AKC recognized breeds have a national parent club, as it's one of the requirements for recognition.

The AKC Marketplace is just classified ads. The only requirement to advertise there is that your AKC privileges haven't been suspended, so you can find really good breeders who work hard to produce sane, sound, healthy dogs advertising there, as well as really lousy breeders who breed their dogs with no thought beyond "Boy dog + girl dog = puppies to sell".

Providing the registration application is the absolute bare minimum a breeder can do. Any puppy advertised or presented as "AKC" has to have their individual registration application provided at the time of purchase, unless there are really good reasons why it's not. ("Haven't gotten around to sending off for them yet" is not a good reason.) Also, breeders are not supposed to charge extra for the papers. I would be extremely leery of a breeder who says that they will put full registration on the puppy instead of limited for an extra charge. Now, a really promising show prospect might sell for more than a pet or performance prospect, but for the most part, breeders tend to charge the same for pet or show prospects. Some breeders will require a co-ownership on all the puppies they produce, while others will require it on a show prospect. Others sign them over outright. You'll have to decide what you are comfortable with.

If they are members of good standing in the national breed club, that is a point in their favor, although not always the sign of a good breeder. There are some that I know of in the national Doberman club that I wouldn't touch with a ten foot pole.

Belonging to a local specialty and/or all-breed club is another point in their favor, again with the same caveat.

Competing in conformation and/or other sports is another point in their favor.
 

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I agree with LeoRose but would add:

- Good breeders have contracts that obligate you to a certain standard of care and say what you can expect of the breeder. For instance, good breeders want a first right of refusal if for some reason in the future you can't keep the dog. READ the contract. Don't assume that some provision you don't like will never come into play. Don't sign a contract you aren't willing to honor in every detail.

- The Rottweiler breeders (members of code of ethics clubs and good, caring breeders) I know do charge higher prices for show than pet puppies, and I've heard of the same in other breeds. That's always seemed pretty reasonable to me. Some will refund back to pet price if the puppy doesn't develop as hoped. For instance, if some teeth don't come in. The contract on a show prospect should specify.

- Some good breeders do sell pet puppies on limited registration (which means you can't register puppies bred from your dog). It's not necessarily a scheme to charge a little more for changing limited registration to full. Some breeders use the limited registration in an attempt to make sure pet puppy buyers don't go on and breed their pet. Other breeders feel they need to get to know prospective buyers so well there's no chance of a buyer violating their purchase promises and contract like that.

- Yes, a lot of breeders want co-ownership on their puppies for the same reason as above; they feel it gives them a better chance to make sure the puppy is treated/handled as it should be and the buyer promised it would be. This too is something some believe in and others don't.

Good luck in your search.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
All AKC recognized breeds have a national parent club, as it's one of the requirements for recognition.

The AKC Marketplace is just classified ads. The only requirement to advertise there is that your AKC privileges haven't been suspended, so you can find really good breeders who work hard to produce sane, sound, healthy dogs advertising there, as well as really lousy breeders who breed their dogs with no thought beyond "Boy dog + girl dog = puppies to sell".

Providing the registration application is the absolute bare minimum a breeder can do. Any puppy advertised or presented as "AKC" has to have their individual registration application provided at the time of purchase, unless there are really good reasons why it's not. ("Haven't gotten around to sending off for them yet" is not a good reason.) Also, breeders are not supposed to charge extra for the papers. I would be extremely leery of a breeder who says that they will put full registration on the puppy instead of limited for an extra charge. Now, a really promising show prospect might sell for more than a pet or performance prospect, but for the most part, breeders tend to charge the same for pet or show prospects. Some breeders will require a co-ownership on all the puppies they produce, while others will require it on a show prospect. Others sign them over outright. You'll have to decide what you are comfortable with.

If they are members of good standing in the national breed club, that is a point in their favor, although not always the sign of a good breeder. There are some that I know of in the national Doberman club that I wouldn't touch with a ten foot pole.

Belonging to a local specialty and/or all-breed club is another point in their favor, again with the same caveat.

Competing in conformation and/or other sports is another point in their favor.
LeoRose, Thank you very very much for your response. I will most certainly take this and keep this in mind when searching for a breeder. I truly appreciate your time and effort in my post!!
 

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Discussion Starter #7
I agree with LeoRose but would add:

- Good breeders have contracts that obligate you to a certain standard of care and say what you can expect of the breeder. For instance, good breeders want a first right of refusal if for some reason in the future you can't keep the dog. READ the contract. Don't assume that some provision you don't like will never come into play. Don't sign a contract you aren't willing to honor in every detail.

- The Rottweiler breeders (members of code of ethics clubs and good, caring breeders) I know do charge higher prices for show than pet puppies, and I've heard of the same in other breeds. That's always seemed pretty reasonable to me. Some will refund back to pet price if the puppy doesn't develop as hoped. For instance, if some teeth don't come in. The contract on a show prospect should specify.

- Some good breeders do sell pet puppies on limited registration (which means you can't register puppies bred from your dog). It's not necessarily a scheme to charge a little more for changing limited registration to full. Some breeders use the limited registration in an attempt to make sure pet puppy buyers don't go on and breed their pet. Other breeders feel they need to get to know prospective buyers so well there's no chance of a buyer violating their purchase promises and contract like that.

- Yes, a lot of breeders want co-ownership on their puppies for the same reason as above; they feel it gives them a better chance to make sure the puppy is treated/handled as it should be and the buyer promised it would be. This too is something some believe in and others don't.

Good luck in your search.
Storyist, Thank you very much for your comments. I truly appreciate you taking the time to reply to my post and provide insight. There is a lot to think about when finding a breeder and I welcome all comments to help me find the right one. Again, thank you for your time!
 
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