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Oh wow, let's all gang bang the newcomer.
As if that isn't rude?
Get off of your high horse and spare me the attitude.
Researching and actually owning a breed are 2 different things.
Jeez are you mentally challenged, I mean is it that difficult for you to understand?
You twits should stay far, far away from a breed like CO. I mean just look how stupid you both are.
Even people who trained rottweilers and GSD as guard dogs often want nothing to do with a CO.
This is exactly why I wish CO could stay rare, so idiots like you don't think they can handle them just by reading a book
Lol I sometimes forget just how ignorant people like you are..
Oh wow, guess I was wrong about you being rude. You're making a great impression here. ;)

On the subject of COs being less defensive off-property... Brad owns and uses COs for guarding purposes and has helped breed a litter. Even he has said this:

Having said that, Blue [Cane Corso] is mos def less defensive than our CO - but he is also always "on" - does not matter if he is on property or off... while our CO kinda "turn off" when they are off property. They will guard our car and our house, but they take a few days to start guarding a new location - so they can be walked in public with little issues (using common sense, of course... no petting from strangers!).
No one on this thread has claimed to be an expert on COs. No one here has said they want to run out and buy one with no research (I don't even want one, period). I don't understand why you're getting so upset.
 

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Yes, I know. I, like everyone else on this thread, agree with you that COs are definitely for experienced owners and are not the kind of breed that's going to be friendly with strangers. I haven't said anything about wanting to own one (because I don't want to own one). NewfoundlandOwner might, in the future, but plans to meet with several breeders and make absolutely sure they could handle a CO before ever buying one. People here aren't claiming to be experts; we want to be educated about the breed -- and getting educated about a breed is the first thing a person should do before meeting breeders and dogs of that breed and then possibly eventually buying one. This is why I don't understand your anger.
 

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Oh wow, let's all gang bang the newcomer.
As if that isn't rude?
Get off of your high horse and spare me the attitude.
Researching and actually owning a breed are 2 different things.
Jeez are you mentally challenged, I mean is it that difficult for you to understand?
You twits should stay far, far away from a breed like CO. I mean just look how stupid you both are.
Even people who trained rottweilers and GSD as guard dogs often want nothing to do with a CO.
This is exactly why I wish CO could stay rare, so idiots like you don't think they can handle them just by reading a book
Lol I sometimes forget just how ignorant people like you are..
Way to gang up on everyone else. Rude as hell...you won't last here calling people idiots and mentally challenged....and for what? You're arguing in a discussion. Everyone else trying to talk you down. Respect is part of the forum and just know Mods are watching your comments and members can flag your rude post insulting Crantastic. Eff that noise. It's not right.

Hi and bye you'll be banned soon anyways going on like this or you can calm down and we can welcome you as a member with insight on rarer guardian breeds.
 

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But when NWowner said to me: "The fact that you own CO's doesn't mean someone else doesn't know anything about them." bugged me, especially after he/she claims they've read many books about the breed.
How is this not a true statement?

To make a long story short: true CO's are not extremely friendly towards strangers.
That was my only point.
Excellent. Nobody on this thread has disagreed or is disagreeing with you about this.
 

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Wow, sounds like things got way out of hand after I went to bed. Since I can't find the posts these replies reference, I'm guessing that LittleBear deleted them all. All I can say is that I did not mean to spark off an argument like this. Actually, my OP here in this thread was just a quick reference to the one CO I've met. I'm for chilling and forgetting all about this. It isn't important in any case. As Crantastic said, I'm not planning on running off to buy a CO, and will probably never own one. At this time, I'm quite happy with my Newfie.

I'd like to think we can disagree on something here without getting so upset over it.

Edit - I know we got off on the wrong foot, but I really am fascinated by many giant dog breeds, so if LittleBear was just having a bad day and doesn't mind letting things slide, I'd love to hear what living with a CO is like.
 

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At this time, I'm quite happy with my Newfie...
I'd love to hear what living with a CO is like.
Too bad the Moscow Diver is now extinct. The M.D. was a Soviet experiment to develop a working water dog by crossing the Newfie and C.O.

My understanding is that the experiment met a dead end, once it was determined that, when working, these dogs were more likely to bite than save the sailors they were sent to rescue.
:laugh:

P.S. The only reason I know about the M.D., is that it was one of the secondary breeds used in the development of the BRT.
 

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I love LGDs, particularly the Cão da Serra da Estrela, Sarplaninac and Mastin de los Pirineos. I also really like Tornjaks, but feel like I don't know enough about them yet. Also, since I saw one particular beautiful Central Asian Shepherd a couple weeks ago... the breed has gotten my interest.
Wow, I hadn't seen the Tornjak yet. What a beautiful dog!
 

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Too bad the Moscow Diver is now extinct. The M.D. was a Soviet experiment to develop a working water dog by crossing the Newfie and C.O.

My understanding is that the experiment met a dead end, once it was determined that, when working, these dogs were more likely to bite than save the sailors they were sent to rescue.
:laugh:

P.S. The only reason I know about the M.D., is that it was one of the secondary breeds used in the development of the BRT.
Holy crap! Crossing a breed known for extreme guardian aggression with one known for its sweet temperament doesn't seem like a winning proposition to me. I would assume that the CO's famous ability to discern a threat from a non-threat would be crippled by the easy-going nature of the Newfie, who don't see many things as threats at all (though I've both read and seen a Newfie sit between their human and someone they didn't know). A cross like this seems likely to result in an unstable temperament. Do you know why this was attempted? Newfoundlands already do a very good job at water rescue. CO's do a very good job at guarding. Why mix them?
 

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Wow, I hadn't seen the Tornjak yet. What a beautiful dog!
Me too, I just researched it last night and wow! And funny enough, there's a breeder in Ontario! I wasn't aware we had so many different rare breeds available around here. Not that I'm about to run out and get one. It's just nice to know there are so many people in love with rare breeds.
 

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Nice pics Avie!! They are so strong looking and beautiful at the same time; I used two in my last story: Shadow (b/w) and Snowbelle (tan/white). Not that other LSG aren't strong and pretty.
 

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... Newfoundlands already do a very good job at water rescue. CO's do a very good job at guarding. Why mix them?
I can only guess, based on conversations with long-time Russian breeders.

After WWII, the Soviet government, owning (amongst every other thing/s) their own kennels and research facilities, did a lot of experimentation with genetically creating (and improving existing?) dog breeds...

It was, apparently, felt that the Newfie was somehow lacking ... that, perhaps, their work ethic/drive was either too soft or too limited, and that a more athletic, more "multi-functional" dog to work their waters would be more suitable for their requirements.

Also, and not that I'm an expert on the C.O., but I would not say that "their ability to discern a threat from a non-threat" is not exactly "famous". On the contrary (and I could certainly be corrected here), they were originally developed as a far more intense, more serious flock guardian than we are used to, here in the west. Any and every intruder was to be considered a threat, and any threat was to be eliminated (and not simply warned off). It was a "kill first and ask questions later" philosophy. Different times. Different realities...

I suppose this is similar to the fact that the original, Soviet BRT temperament was far too sharp and intense to have made a suitable family guardian in our society today.
 

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Which LGD breeds are best suited for which jobs? Howcome some breeds are a lot more popular than others? For instance I know a lot of people with farms that have Great Pyrenees, and some others that have Anatolian Shepherds. Are there certain situations where various breeds work best? Is there a difference between employing a LGD to guard a small family farm with a large variety of animals but a small number of each, (like a few chickens, a couple of horses, a few goats, etc.) and guarding a large herd of a single type of livestock, like sheep or cattle?

Also, from what I've read, apparently the CO is more inclined to guard the owner/property, whereas breeds like the Great Pyrenees is actually guarding the livestock? Is this accurate?
 

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That's something I'd like to know too.

Maybe it differs per LGD breed. For instance, I know that the Pyrenean Mastiff had to escort very large flocks of sheep into the mountains and back again, every half year. Apparently the Kangal was always with moving herds (?) and so had to have great stamina.
Maybe it also has to do with the type of predators that the breed was bred to defend against? Estrelas had to guard against Iberian wolves, Sarplaninec had to guard against European wolves and European brown bears, Caucasians had to guard against anything passing by?
Just throwing things out there, I feel like I'm fishing in the dark.
 

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Which LGD breeds are best suited for which jobs? Howcome some breeds are a lot more popular than others? For instance I know a lot of people with farms that have Great Pyrenees, and some others that have Anatolian Shepherds. Are there certain situations where various breeds work best? Is there a difference between employing a LGD to guard a small family farm with a large variety of animals but a small number of each, (like a few chickens, a couple of horses, a few goats, etc.) and guarding a large herd of a single type of livestock, like sheep or cattle?

Also, from what I've read, apparently the CO is more inclined to guard the owner/property, whereas breeds like the Great Pyrenees is actually guarding the livestock? Is this accurate?
Not exactly. From what I understand, the CO is quite happy to guard the owner and property, which would include any livestock on it. Basically, everything living or inanimate become part of the CO's charge. The primary difference, as I understand it, between dogs like the Great Pyrenees and the CO is the level of aggression (besides the very different appearance). CO's will fight just about anything, and have been bred to deal with threats definitively. While many LGD's will use intimidation and chase possible predators off, the CO tend to chase it down and kill it.

I need to add here that this is research-knowledge only. I have no direct experience owning any LGD breeds.
 

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Those are interesting dogs. I have a question though. Being used for protection, against people, how many of these dogs would actually bite? Not just guard, but actually bite? Are they tested against people? How many people has your dog bitten?
 

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From what I understand each LGD has its own purpose. Some guard sheep, others goats, others whatever. They actually put the puppy in with the herd so they grow to love the herd as their own pack, they sleep/eat with the herd, etc. And they aren't afraid to go after a wolf, coyote, fox, etc. I don't know if this is still practiced, but back in the day guardian dogs used to wear those spiked collars. It was said that if they fought an animal, that animal (like a wolf) couldn't go for their throats. So the dog was protected. And if given the chance, yes I think the dogs would bite...not their humans but the animal they're defending the flock against.

That is what I've heard. So yes, I believe their each used for a certain purposes. 1. What they protect. 2. Where they come from (long coats help in winter). 3. How protective are they (that they will go after either a fox or wolf). I'm sure there are other reasons, but that's all I can come up with now.
 

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I know of those spiked collars! I do believe they're still in use with working animals. But the confusing thing is that they have different names all around. For instance, the Mastin de los Pirineos (Pyrenean Mastiff) traditionally wears a spiked collar called a carlanca, a Maremma traditionally wears a roccale or vreccale, and there are more names for them, like hanaka, lanaria, pratolano, maybe more...

Okay, I forgot what point I was trying to make...

Anyway, confusing collar situation. I just refer to them in general as iron/spiked collars. Does anyone know if there are actual differences between all these names or whether they're just different languages for the same thing?
 
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