KONGS Puppy Inept? Do we hang in there?

Rosealima · 2018-05-21

Here are the facts: Puppy prone to soft stools, so we are careful with diet. Puppy only has Victor Puppy Dry. Training treats are ½ oz cheese and about 2 Tbsp. cat food daily Currently eats meals (1 cup ea) in Kong dry, rolling it around to get kibble, takes 10 mins Max. Not food motivated in general, nor much of a chewer, although we do give raw hide (quite supervised!) out of crate when we read or do paperwork with her at our feet. We desire: Our business is quite busy until lunch, so we desire pup to eat slow b'fast in crate. I have read: Puppies will work hard to get food out of KONGS for hours Give KONGS frozen although this may cause soft stools (yuck, already have those!) What happened: Put softened (with water) kibble (with ½ T cat food) in KONG. Only gave one half of regular meal's worth. Pup only ate ONE THIRD of that, cried the whole time she licked it, and after the 10 mins that took, was barking/whining/finally quietly sitting doing nothing...ignoring the last two-thirds that were 'hard' to reach, I guess. She is twice the size of a cat, but we are using a large KONG...is her tongue too short? Will a frozen KONG really cause diarrhea? If she gave up so soon, how will she EVER work on a frozen KONG? Should we hang in there? Is this really going to accomplish anything? Thanks all!

1262 Views 9 Replies 8 Participants Last post by MarieLovesChis, Jun 6, 2018

Rosealima

Discussion Starter · May 21, 2018 (Edited)

Here are the facts:

Puppy prone to soft stools, so we are careful with diet.
Puppy only has Victor Puppy Dry.
Training treats are ½ oz cheese and about 2 Tbsp. cat food daily
Currently eats meals (1 cup ea) in Kong dry, rolling it around to get kibble, takes 10 mins Max.
Not food motivated in general, nor much of a chewer, although we do give raw hide (quite supervised!) out of crate when we read or do paperwork with her at our feet.

We desire:
Our business is quite busy until lunch, so we desire pup to eat slow b'fast in crate.

I have read:

Puppies will work hard to get food out of KONGS for hours
Give KONGS frozen although this may cause soft stools (yuck, already have those!)

What happened:

Put softened (with water) kibble (with ½ T cat food) in KONG. Only gave one half of regular meal's worth.
Pup only ate ONE THIRD of that, cried the whole time she licked it, and after the 10 mins that took, was barking/whining/finally quietly sitting doing nothing...ignoring the last two-thirds that were 'hard' to reach, I guess.

She is twice the size of a cat, but we are using a large KONG...is her tongue too short?
Will a frozen KONG really cause diarrhea?
If she gave up so soon, how will she EVER work on a frozen KONG?
Should we hang in there? Is this really going to accomplish anything?

Thanks all!

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LeoRose

· #2 · May 21, 2018

I'd suspect the rawhide is what's giving her loose stools.

As for what happened with the Kong, I'm wondering if she just wasn't frustrated, and gave up when the kibble didn't come out like she she was used to? Not every dog is super food motivated, and the less motivated ones are more likely to give up when getting the food is too hard.

Try giving her part of her breakfast, so that she isn't hungry, and then giving her a smaller sized Kong stuffed with something really yummy, like plain yogurt or canned tripe that has been partially frozen, and see if that works better. If that she goes for that, gradually work up to completely frozen Kongs.

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Lillith

· #3 · May 21, 2018

I also suspect the rawhide may be causing the diarrhea. Rawhide isn't that great for dogs, anyway. And why cat food? Cat food isn't great for dogs, either, as it can be too rich. Can you use wet dog food instead?

Some puppies might just not have the ability to pay attention to a KONG for more than a little while quite yet. They get frustrated and give up. Perhaps make it easier for her, get her a smaller KONG, or just wait until she's a little older.

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Rosealima

Discussion Starter · #4 · May 21, 2018

LeoRose said:
I'd suspect the rawhide is what's giving her loose stools...
Try giving her part of her breakfast, so that she isn't hungry, and then giving her a smaller sized Kong stuffed with something really yummy, like plain yogurt or canned tripe...

She has always (5 weeks with us) had loose stools, firmer now than ever. (initially coccidia; completely healthy of it now) But, we will do a few days w/out the raw hide as a trial. It is only a one half hour per day (not ½ hr at a time even) 2 week 'habit'. We choose raw hide as a supervised distractor for occasional treat out of the crate as the lesser of ALL evils. She is a gentle chewer (so far) and has eaten an inch (if that) of the highest quality, rolled tight, US made we can find. We rotate every 5-10 mins as it gets soft. It seems that everything causes choking, diarrhea, gas, or ill behavior habits in dogs!
So, along the loose stool lines...wouldn't tripe cause loose stools? It just seems like it to me, admittedly without any experience, the tiny amount of raw hide she is ingesting is nothing compared to canned food or tripe, but I would like to try something soft so we don't have to wet/mush her food. I have also 'heard' tuna doesn't cause diarrhea, but I am scared to play around too much.

Lillith said:
I also suspect the rawhide may be causing the diarrhea. Rawhide isn't that great for dogs, anyway. And why cat food? Cat food isn't great for dogs, either, as it can be too rich. Can you use wet dog food instead?
Some puppies might just not have the ability to pay attention to a KONG for more than a little while quite yet. They get frustrated and give up. Perhaps make it easier for her, get her a smaller KONG, or just wait until she's a little older.

See above re: how much raw hide.
Cat food? We chose a small amount as a 'desperate' clicker treat when we really want her attention & she needs distraction. I would say it varys by day & my written amount was generous...1 Tbsp is more like it, at most. She really likes it & it is plentiful around here...will consider based on your advise, though - didn't know it wasn't good for dogs as even a treat. Thank you!
And, about the puppies not maybe being ready, I appreciate hearing that. When I read a book that suggests it is HOW to feed your puppy (Ian D) or see blog after blog saying it is the best way to keep your puppy busy for hours, I first think it must be easy for everyone but us LOL!

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Karms

· #5 · May 21, 2018

I never had luck with Kong's until I took advice from my vet on "the more it smells the more interested she'll be" which makes a ton of sense, giving that dogs interact with the world through scent and taste more than anything. If you're just giving her, her Normal kibble and she's not highly food motivated she's not going to work hard for something she can get easily at a different time. And cat food isn't going to help with her soft poo any.

Frozen Kong's shouldn't cause runs anymore than drinking water would.. but you may have the mess of it melting before she gets it all.

For my dog's Kongs I make a "slop" of Liquid+nutritious food+ treat to entice them...whatever low sodium chicken, or cream of chicken, or beef soup .. whatever we have in the pantry (low sodium) is the liquid and the treat. Then I add their dog kibble and sometimes some pineapple chunks.. sounds gross right? But my dogs would jump through hoops to get this stuff. I only make what I need.. 1 can of soup or cream of chicken+ other ingredients usually fills 4 Kongs for me.

They also love peanut butter + dog kibble+ tuna + apple slice Kong's .. the more it smells the more interested they'll be. . I hope this helps.

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Lillith

· #6 · May 21, 2018

Rosealima said:
She has always (5 weeks with us) had loose stools, firmer now than ever. (initially coccidia; completely healthy of it now) But, we will do a few days w/out the raw hide as a trial. It is only a one half hour per day (not ½ hr at a time even) 2 week 'habit'. We choose raw hide as a supervised distractor for occasional treat out of the crate as the lesser of ALL evils. She is a gentle chewer (so far) and has eaten an inch (if that) of the highest quality, rolled tight, US made we can find. We rotate every 5-10 mins as it gets soft. It seems that everything causes choking, diarrhea, gas, or ill behavior habits in dogs!
So, along the loose stool lines...wouldn't tripe cause loose stools? It just seems like it to me, admittedly without any experience, the tiny amount of raw hide she is ingesting is nothing compared to canned food or tripe, but I would like to try something soft so we don't have to wet/mush her food. I have also 'heard' tuna doesn't cause diarrhea, but I am scared to play around too much.

See above re: how much raw hide.
Cat food? We chose a small amount as a 'desperate' clicker treat when we really want her attention & she needs distraction. I would say it varys by day & my written amount was generous...1 Tbsp is more like it, at most. She really likes it & it is plentiful around here...will consider based on your advise, though - didn't know it wasn't good for dogs as even a treat. Thank you!
And, about the puppies not maybe being ready, I appreciate hearing that. When I read a book that suggests it is HOW to feed your puppy (Ian D) or see blog after blog saying it is the best way to keep your puppy busy for hours, I first think it must be easy for everyone but us LOL!

Google how rawhide is made. It's pretty gross, and a bit toxic.

Instead, try things like bully sticks, beef tracheas, raw bones, antlers, hooves, and other by-products that are not processed like rawhide. Some of those you may want to wait on (like raw bones, hooves, and antlers) until she's older and has strong adult teeth, though.

Also, here's an article about dogs eating cat food. Basically, its too high in protein for dogs. Apparently its okay as an occasional treat, but 1-2 tablespoons might still be too much for a little puppy. https://www.akc.org/expert-advice/nutrition/general-nutrition/can-dogs-eat-cat-food/

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Sandakat

· #7 · May 26, 2018 (Edited)

My pup is a completely disinterested eater. We could never get her interested in a Kong at all. Not every dog loves it. I completely agree with everyone on the rawhide. They are toxic! What worked for us were bully sticks, especially the curly ones, and frozen marrow bones. You can buy them much more cheaply in the grocery store than in any pet store. My dog would spend hours licking the marrow out of the bone. Dogs that are really hard chewers can crack teeth on the bones, but we never had a problem.

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Jen2010

· #8 · May 28, 2018

I never had luck with Kong's until I took advice from my vet on "the more it smells the more interested she'll be" which makes a ton of sense, giving that dogs interact with the world through scent and taste more than anything. If you're just giving her, her Normal kibble and she's not highly food motivated she's not going to work hard for something she can get easily at a different time. And cat food isn't going to help with her soft poo any.

My dogs can clean out a Kong in about 10 minutes. I've read lots too saying it will last for hours, but it probably depends on the dog. Even frozen, my dogs are done within 30 minutes. I usually just use natural peanut butter and coconut oil. I don't fill it up completely, but just scrape it around the edges mostly (I don't want them eating that much peanut butter). But yeah, if I just put kibble in there, my one dog would lose interest pretty quickly - it just wouldn't be worth the effort.

I suspect it's the cat food making your dog's stools soft - cat food is not good for dogs.

Since you are having issues with soft stools I would recommend putting some canned pumpkin (plain, not pie filling) in the Kong. It's more interesting than kibble and will help with the soft stools.

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Bluemoods

· #9 · Jun 6, 2018

Nix the rawhide and cat food. get something like a Busy Bone or Better than Ears for chew time, safe, edible, nutritious. Instead of a Kong, try a more open treat ball and bigger kibble if you can. Or feed in a bowl and put treats in the ball that take work to remove but, that the dog can get with a bit of effort.

Not all dogs go for the same things. I have one that hates bacon, loves sweet potato. Another ignores sweet potato, wants blackberry, number 3 wants beef or bacon, number four is a peanut butter freak. Two of them like Kongs, one only a busy ball, one wants the peanut butter inside a real bone. Each dog is different, just have to find what trips their trigger.

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MarieLovesChis

· #10 · Jun 6, 2018

What I find works best for my dog is to not fill the entire thing up with something sticky like peanut butter. If it isn't possible for her to reach it then she tends to lose interest. I've heard too many horror stories of dogs getting their bottom jaw stuck in a Kong anyway so I prefer not to put anything too difficult towards the bottom. Instead what I do is fill the first narrow half with something easy to roll out, like kibble and treats. Then I top off the second wider half with the fun stuff like yoghurt and peanut butter and freeze it. That way she has to work a bit to get the peanut butter/yoghurt combo and once that's gone she just rolls and bounces around the Kong to get the kibble out. No frustration and I don't have to worry about her shoving her face in it to try to reach food that isn't even reachable.

A filled Kong typically only lasts my dog 15 minutes or so but she's always been fast with puzzles. Most puzzle toys only take her about 2 minutes to complete so 15 minutes is fine with me lol.

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