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I am wondering if the King Shepherd is it's own breed or if it is a larger GSD?
I have been reading several sites now and am getting conflicting information.Some people say it's a rare breed and it's own breed and others say it is a larger GSD.

:confused:
 

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Wikipedia says the breed has only been around since the 90's and is not recognized by the AKC. I would say it's more a designer dog, but a more sophisticated designer dog. Apparently it's a cross of an Alaskan Malamute, GSD, and Great Pyrenees.
 

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As far as I know, The "King Shepherd" is a breed that was developed by breeding GSDs with large livestock guardian dogs and then again with German GSDs to increase the size, so really, they're both right. They are large GSDs that were made by breeding GSDs to a larger breed. I don't know that they're rare, but I would never own one or support anyone who bred them. The GSD has enough joint problems without adding 60 more pounds to it's frame. :)
 

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Some of them are just big GSDs, either just by a freak of nature or by people breeding specifically for large size. Others are GSDs crossed with other breeds (like hulk said) to get the larger size.

Regardless... I'd steer away from them if they're from a breeder. Generally, people who breed for unnatural size, etc. don't pay attention to issues that come with that size (hip dysplasia, bloat, etc.) and aren't health testing their breeding stock to avoid it.
 

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I should add that they're not UKC recognized either or any kennel club that I would consider as legit recognizing bodies. They're recognized as a breed by the American Rare Breed Association (recognizes most breeds that are not recognized by the AKC), American King Shepherd Club (self explanatory), World Wide Kennel Club (registers all breeds from any other registry) , Eastern Rare Breed Dog Club (found no info online on their registering standards with a quick search), States Kennel Club (found no info), American Pet Registry Inc (found no list of breed standards or even a list of accepted breeds on their site. Looked fishy to me).

In short, I would not consider them a separate breed. I certainly cannot find a legit kennel club that does.
 

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They are their own breed but still under development. They are a large mixed breed bred from GSD and other breeds for size.
 

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As far as I know, The "King Shepherd" is a breed that was developed by breeding GSDs with large livestock guardian dogs and then again with German GSDs to increase the size, so really, they're both right. They are large GSDs that were made by breeding GSDs to a larger breed. I don't know that they're rare, but I would never own one or support anyone who bred them. The GSD has enough joint problems without adding 60 more pounds to it's frame. :)
Ditto that.

Also, they are supposed to be, like the Shiloh shepherd, similar to a German shepherd without the drive, intelligence, and intensity.
 

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There ARE Labradoodle breeders out there who are making a genuine effort to get the breed recognised, and part of this has been setting up national breed clubs and putting a standard together. The problem is that these breeders are in a very small minority, which is why I am still wary of most Labradoodle breeders.

Just out of curiosity -- what is the purpose of the King Shepherd? I've never even heard of it.
 

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So are King Shepherds an offshoot of Shiloh Shepherds? I thought Shilohs were supposed to be the 'bigger, fluffier version' of GSDs. Seems redundant to have two kinds of that.
 

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There ARE Labradoodle breeders out there who are making a genuine effort to get the breed recognised, and part of this has been setting up national breed clubs and putting a standard together. The problem is that these breeders are in a very small minority, which is why I am still wary of most Labradoodle breeders.

Just out of curiosity -- what is the purpose of the King Shepherd? I've never even heard of it.
Not quite.

Hybrid Labraradoodles (the designer dog type doodle) are either poodle and lab (F1) or poodle and F1 doodle back-cross (F1B), so breed recognition is not an option.

These are completely unrelated to the much rarer and more expensive Australian Labradoodle which are bred from multi-generational lines of Australian Labradoodles and are trying to achieve breed recognition.

One of the purposes of both King and Shiloh shepherds is to create a large powerful shepherd type dog with the intelligence and athleticism of a German Shepherd but with less drive and independence making them a more suitable pet for many people, as well as eliminating that horrendous slope and other structural problems with the breed.
 

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American dog breeders Shelley Watts-Cross and David Turkheimer developed this large breed from American and European German Shepherd Dogs, Alaskan Malamutes, and Great Pyrenees. An official breed club was established in 1995.
Thats from dogbreedinfo.
 

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One of the purposes of both King and Shiloh shepherds is to create a large powerful shepherd type dog with the intelligence and athleticism of a German Shepherd but with less drive and independence making them a more suitable pet for many people, as well as eliminating that horrendous slope and other structural problems with the breed.
Do you have any links you could post that explains that further? I am genuinely trying to learn. I always heard and thought that those "breeds" were considerably less intelligent than the German shepherd. Also, I never did see the German shepherd as an independent breed, and rather, the opposite. I would say malamutes are much more independent than German shepherds.

I definitely hear the "make more suitable for pet homes" reason quite a lot, especially among designer mutt breeders. Regarding the Shiloh and King shepherds, I had thought they tried to make them less intelligent in comparison to the GSD because the German shepherd requires so much mental as well as physical stimulation. A more intelligent breed would not make for a better pet (ie: most people would recommend a GSD over a Border Collie for a strictly pet/companion dog).
 

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...as well as eliminating that horrendous slope and other structural problems with the breed.
Just a quick note, there *are* quite a few structural problems within the GSD, but the slope really is not one of them. The slope in and of itself causes no structural instability to my knowledge, and there have probably been at least a dozen highly posted threads on this exact topic in the last 6 months.

The whole: "look at that slope, what a cripple" thing is just completely untrue. Now, start looking at how the back curves (roached or sagged), and you're on to something. You can have roach backs with no slope. You can have roach backs with extreme slope.

Do I personally like the really extreme slopes found in some lines? Absolutely not. Are the slopes themselves detrimental to the dog? I don't believe so.



As far as the australian labradoodle, I'd absolutely love to see them succeed in breeding true a new breed. There are a ton of people in the United States alone who are allergic to dogs, and the poodle just is NOT for everyone. My apologies to all the poodle lovers out there, but if I had to choose between a poodle and no dog because of allergies, I'd choose no dog. LD's have the potential to fit this bill quite well, but they have a long ways to go.
 

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As far as the australian labradoodle, I'd absolutely love to see them succeed in breeding true a new breed. There are a ton of people in the United States alone who are allergic to dogs, and the poodle just is NOT for everyone. My apologies to all the poodle lovers out there, but if I had to choose between a poodle and no dog because of allergies, I'd choose no dog. LD's have the potential to fit this bill quite well, but they have a long ways to go.
I agree with this 100%.

Regarding my previous post: sorry KaseyT, my bad. You are far more knowledgeable on the subject of doodles than I.
 

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I'm not sure what the point is here? Yes there are also people who are trying to create a line of labradoodles that breed true and to a standard.
My point is anyone can create a breed standard and start breeding dogs. To me this doesn't make the off spring a new breed. I could breed a basset and a cocker spaniel to try to create a less intelligent, but still very friendly animal that has longer fur. I could call it a basser spaniel and put together a list of specific qualities I'm looking for. I could even start a breed club for other breeders trying to do the same thing. That wouldn't make the basser spaniel a new breed. To me a breed becomes a legitimate breed when it gets recognized by a legit breed recognition body (such as the AKC or the UKC). In my mind, putting together a breed standard and forming your own breed club doesn't make a breed a breed.
 
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