ISO: Advice on adopting after recent losses

It's always something!

They are asking a truly unbelievable adoption fee for the pair; we were completely gobsmacked. We can do it if it comes to it, but it's so high I feel like I have to call the adoption coordinator and figure out WTH is going on. Almost every rescue I've ever looked at gives some kind of discount on a bonded pair, which as of yet is not happening here, and we're transporting them ourselves. Idk, everyone in the family has experience with rescues (meaning myself, my partner, my parents, his parents, his siblings) and everyone heard this figure and said WHAT?!

So.... we'll see what happens, it honestly felt really manipulative because they had a price set for every other dog in the rescue except this pair who were listed as "TBD." We took this to mean there would be some kind of break, not "let's see how high the costs go." It's just extremely disappointing and feels coercive to be told the price at a point in the process where we have already invested a lot of time and effort into this pair and are starting to see them as our dogs. It just makes for less money we can put towards all of their other upfront costs.

I really don't know what's going to happen. I'm not comfortable saying how much they're asking but it's a price that has gotten everyone this upset and questioning whether or not we can do it. I know rescues have expenses and I don't want anyone getting stiffed, but they just really did not handle this very well at all, especially considering they are (literally) asking for 10x the cost some places adopt out pairs, who are hard to place.

That's the update, wish it were better, but maybe the coordinator can help.

It sounds like you could go out and get some AKC Champion puppies for that price. If the ball is in your court, you might try to get hold of the head of the Rescue, and ask what happened, b/c you were under the impression that fees were XYZ (like you saw on the other dogs), that these might be a difficult case due to Sally's emotion issues, and that you were a unique match b/c of your experience with Pyrs etc. Would they pls break down the fees for you?

Then, audibly say "Oh my" or something similar, and remark that these are two big dogs that will require lots of personal care as well as expenses for food. Can you help us out on the fees?

If they won't budge or if they make a perfunctory effort, then very quickly Thank them, explain how those fees will eat up what you've budgeted for the first five years (or something reasonable like that). You have our contact information. If you are able accept fees more inline with the other rescues - XYZ (from above), then please contact us for further discussion. Thank you very much for your time and efforts. Goodbye.

Be very cordial, friendly, and polite, but after they give you the 'unreasonable' counteroffer, "walk away" by hanging up immediately after you say goodbye.

Note, this is not a bluff. They can make up their costs with other dogs. You aren't required to accept unreasonable pricing. So, if you are comfortable walking away, this is the time to show that you are serious. They will either return the call immediately, within one week, or not at all. For their next counteroffer, they may make another token effort, providing all kinds of reasons and costs. Note, that if those costs are reasonable, then you may not be able to afford to care for these dogs, if care is that expensive. And, you can tell them that.

If they will accept XYZ, then You are excited to take both dogs and ready with a "rehabilitation (?)" plan for Sally. Otherwise, if they have a second candidate who can take both dogs and can work with Sally, as well as afford these costs, now may be the time to call them. Please let us know. Thank you. Goodbye.

Note: This one is a bluff. If they really have a second candidate, they may go to that family.

But, if they don't counteroffer within a week, time to move on.

This is one negotiation option. Y'all will have to decide what fees are appropriate and how you want to negotiate with them. I imagine that most ppl don't negotiate and that the Rescue counts on that, and on ppl getting attached to the dogs, as well as not wanting to wait on an extended process.

It's nice to help out Rescues ... but Sally is 'damaged goods' and there is no reason for the Rescue to expect you to pay a premium for damaged goods, when you might be able to go to a breeder to get a puppy with a known background and history for a lower fee.

BTW, I have always adopted Rescues ... but I avoid unreasonable organizations.

hanksimon said:

BTW, I have always adopted Rescues ... but I avoid unreasonable organizations.

Click to expand...

Thank you, that's all great advice. We thought they were reasonable until this happened, although I guess a lot of our final perception will depend on how they react to our concerns about this. Also, as an aside, we had many of the same thoughts about Sally, so thank you for voicing them and making us feel less like monsters for trying to consider her personality and problems within all of this.

We really don't want to, but are definitely prepared to say no if it comes to it. We are in a tough spot because we CAN afford what they are asking, it's just crazy and even more so given there's not only two of them, but Sally's issues. It takes away money that we would otherwise be putting towards them anyway. It's not like we're heroes but we are ready to handle Sally's unique problems and don't want to punish the dogs by walking away because their rescue org is being nutso, but also certainly don't feel like we should be paying a premium for a challenge dog who would be almost impossible to adopt out on her own. It will be rewarding to us to help her come out of her shell, but we are also trying to do a good thing. There aren't a lot of families who would want to take on a dog like that, even to also get a dog like Bear, and I can't say I blame them.

And I really don't think the figure we had in our head was unreasonable, either. We just thought it would maybe be like ~1.5x the cost of a single dog, and we used the higher end of those estimates at that. If they were just going to charge the same as two separate (expensive) adoptions, why not just say so right on the site? I like this less and less the more I think about it, but maybe they'll be easier to talk down than I am expecting.

It will depend a little on the breakdown. If we can see exactly where the money is going, if there are things we're paying for in that chunk that we won't have to do upon bringing them home, etc., then fine. As of now, it makes very little sense to me, and even less considering pairs are hard to adopt to begin with and Sally is going to be very difficult in her own way.

Basically, we're not paying what they're asking right now, but maybe they will be reasonable or maybe they forgot that we'll be transporting and that was accidentally included or something, I don't know. Even if we paid what they asked and ended up with two dogs we loved, we'd feel like we couldn't ever recommend this organization to anyone and that would also make us kind of uncomfortable, saying "oh we rescued them but don't rescue from this place." The whole thing is just so stressful and frustrating considering all of these places are always so desperate to find homes for their dogs. I know they have costs but it feels like they're asking us to cover them for more dogs than we're looking to adopt.


Thanks again for the very solid advice.

I've watched this thread through your journey and the whole time I've thought about how many hoops you have to go through to even adopt a dog. Are you in the states? It just seems ridiculous that we need serious vetting, home checks, high prices etc to adopt out dogs when dogs are literally dying in shelters. You can't keep making it extremely difficult to adopt, price the dogs wwaaaay too freaking high for a difficult to adopt out pair of dogs and then wine about the number of dogs in shelters.

In my area, most rescues don't require home checks or have prices over $300 for a fully vetted dog. The local shelter and pound don't require anything but for you to show up.

If you have any reservations at all about the timid girl, maybe the price is going to keep you from making a difficult decision easier. Maybe it isn't meant to be. However, gotta say.. if this rescue is really wanting to charge you like crazy and lose an obviously great home willing to jump through hoops MOST people are not willing to do.. they are part of the shelter problem.

I hope the best outcome for you. I'm sorry it is difficult!

I am curious Francl, what rescue charges $900 per dog?!

In my shelter (privately funded, about 1300 animals a year), the cost is $100 for an adult dog (includes: altered, chipped, UTD, dewormed, leash+tag+collar, bag of food, any behavior info and handouts they could possibly want). $200 for a puppy. $250 for "ambassador pets" (ex. purebred 2 yo golden retriever with no behavior challenges), which does mean we charge more for highly desirable animals so that their adoption fee 'makes up for' the money we lose on most adoptions. I can think of maybe two ambassador pets we had in all of 2018.

Dog who has been in the shelter for a while that is hard to adopt (ex. severe behavior challenges, in rare cases severe medical)... Sometimes the adoption fee is waived or the animal sponsored. Complimentary private lesson. Sometimes we even send a trainer out to help them get the dog settled in. Difficult dogs who must be placed together... The adoption fee of the second animal is waived. No home checks. No mandatory list of requirements (though specific dogs may have specific placement needs). Our return rate is not higher than the average for other shelters. In fact, it might be lower, not sure...

It just makes sense to make it EASIER for well matched homes to get animals OUT of the shelter, especially animals who are not easily adopted out.

I know this doesn't help your problem, but I'm just offering perspective from a different organization. Honestly, I feel like there are more poorly managed shelters and rescues than good ones...

I'm sorry, I am being intentionally oblique about the exact cost, but with some research it turns out it is somewhat more in line with some other similar rescues. It's still definitely on the higher end and without an obvious bonded pair discount, which so many rescues do. I know of a few rescues who adopt the second in a pair for FREE, and many, many more that do discounts-- but this is on me for assuming. Still, the pair stuff is all besides the fact that while it's a breed-specific rescue, they are NOT purebreds, and the female's personality, again, is "challenging," to be generous. If we were trying to adopt a seemingly-perfect, purebred, bonded pair, the price would make more sense now that I've looked around a little more. I was only comparing the price we were quoted to the price of their single dogs, and it still seems/is very high based on that, but again, more in-line with some other breed-specific rescues. What Canyx described is closer to what we're familiar with.

I feel OK confirming it is north of $800 but south of $1100 for this pair, one of whom is going to be a super struggle. The fee they're asking is a solid $200-250 difference from what we were expecting. We were expecting up to 2x the average cost of their fees while hoping for a bit less than that, and in actuality they're asking for 2x the very high end of the estimate single fee. They were not clear about whether different ages were different price points, just gave a general range and "depending on dog."

I wonder if we're thinking about the same Golden rescue, as I saw one today charging $900 for < 2 y/o.

We are in the states! Looking at local shelters, all we could find was pit mixes, basically, which just isn't the dog for us (and our landlord has a strong bias against any dog who he thinks looks like a "pit"). So we knew going into this there would be SOME hoops as we intentionally looked at these larger, national rescues, including the breed-specific one we are currently working with. Still, I really do feel like we went into this relatively clear-eyed-- this is how we adopted our last dog-- and still got hit with a bunch of sticks on the way.

The pair is not out of the question. Part of us, probably the biggest part of us, still wants to just give them the g-d'ed money, take our dogs, and run, but even that feeling does a disservice to their foster mom who is wonderful and has nothing to do with this. They're in a safe and caring place, but their rescue org is making it harder to swallow two, including one who is borderline-- if not actually-- special needs.

This is what I think happened here, basically: I think this rescue doesn't deal with bonded pairs very often. In fact, I know they don't. We've been with other rescues and done our research on bonded pairs and found that the VAST majority of rescues do some kind of deal on pairs, which right now I don't think we're getting. Between expecting a deal for a pair and hoping for some kind of break for being willing to take such a difficult dog in the female, we had a rough figure set in our head which they well exceeded. I think their asking price is high over our expectations being wildly low but after the research, they're not as crazy as we thought and we're not talking about an enormous difference, just enough to make up their crates, bowls, leashes, some other things for sure. The real disappointment in how they handled the whole issue of the fee, and how late in the process we found out the total cost. We are well past the point where we feel like we could easily walk away. If we walked away now, we'd question whether we made the right choice for the rest of our lives, and they know this. They're a couple hundred dollars under "gouging" still, but I do not think the fee is really reflective of the entirety of the situation-- namely how long they've been in foster, how difficult the female will be, and the very fact there's two of them. ALSO, we know there have been VERY few appropriate applicants for these two. We know for a fact they haven't had that many and have had to deny a lot.

So I'm still pretty steamed about it but mostly I've just vented on here. All I asked from the coordinator was some kind of break down if he could get it and I expressed some surprise at the cost. I haven't actually said we won't pay it, and I probably will not say so, because we probably will pay it and take our dogs and go home. I just can't say this has been a pleasant experience whatsoever. None of my rescues have been pleasant experiences. More like something we really slogged through in order to get a reward at the end, and that doesn't feel quite right considering how many dogs are in need.


I really, really appreciate the support I've gotten on here. Thank you all.

Jen, I did kind of ask but stopped pushing when I wasn't getting anywhere, and I think the reason I wasn't getting anywhere is because the structure of the rescue is very odd. All of our stuff had to be sent to the board-- who never met us, none ever saw our home, didn't even e-mail-- for approval. Our actual coordinator had very little power, was just a liason. So once it became clear there would have to be back-and-forth with the board over what could end up being a paltry discount (if any at all), it was basically not worth it. We heard from the start that the board SOMETIMES denies people for very silly reasons, and "we feel like you're asking for an unreasonable price" strikes me as a not-super-silly reason to deny someone. I'm not so sure they have someone else who would gladly pay it versus us who will do it grudgingly, but we weren't really willing to take the chance.

Without an exact breakdown, we have no way to know if there's technically a bonded pair discount worked in and it's still just very high.

So, all that said: APPROVED. Actually getting the approval created equal parts joy and panic so we are having one more long discussion about taking on two at once and the relatively high, but slightly-less-shocking-after-research fee. However, with any luck and if I know us, two new puppers incoming.

As for a trial period, they have a sort of built-in trial. They will refund 2/3 of the fee if in the first two weeks anything catostrophic happens and we decide it's really not a good fit, so at least we have that for peace of mind. They are also very clear that the dogs go back to them so we don't feel like we could be stranded with two dogs who (in this hypothetical) aren't an amazing fit but who we don't know how to rehome.

Of course, the intention is that they will come and pending adjustment everything will be just fine, but it's still nice to be aware of.

Roller Coaster, much? ;-) Sounds like y'all've done everything prudent, and you have a little assurance that if Sally is too much, you have a safety net. .... Yeah, right! ;-) You know that once she gets tangled in your heartstrings, you'll never let go .... Been there, doing that! Although not the "double mint" way.

Anyway, back to serious. It'll take a couple of weeks or months for Sally to settle in to normal for her. Baylor sounds fine, but you might use Shae as a secondary name, with 'Sally' continuing as the primary, [one less thing for her to adapt to] until you feel that she has settled.

Note: I don't like the name Mikee, but he was so skittish, I didn't change it, plus he is very responsive to that name. On the other hand, just like everyone else, I have lots of different names for him, in private, depending on circumstances. In therapy, we use 'Mickey' or 'Mickey Mouse' [don't tell Disney!], and both he and the Seniors or the kids love that working name. Quoting a different comedian, he didn't 'care what you called him, as long as you remembered to call him for dinner!'

Oh it has been a complete and total roller coaster, you are 100% correct. I will be the first to admit that first the rescue was totally up and down-- foster mom has been great, liked our volunteer, but still omg the price and the whole situation, not great-- and then both of us have been completely all over the place emotionally and decision-wise. In all seriousness, some of this is probably coming from just how soon we're choosing to do it; we are still grieving Sebastian and will be for some time. I just kind of held his urn the other day for a while. We both still feel like we're making the right decision, though. By the time we get them it will be closer to 6 weeks and I am about done being in a house without at least one dog. The cost of getting set up for a pair in particular (including the adoption fee), and a mid-large one at that, is still a little daunting and of course there will be other expenses, but we'll be able to do it, and after our experience with Sebastian, will certainly be insuring them which will at least help if there's any unforeseeable terribleness in that regard. The good news is that we have the experience to know to just do the insurance now while they're healthy, and the network and resources to get them to the right specialist should anything like that happen. God forbid... hopefully they remain healthy for a long time!

Really the whole reason we're moving forward is that she in particular is already very tangled in our heartstrings. I couldn't bear the thought of not taking her home. But it is reassuring to have a bit of a 'safety net' as you say, though I also agree we are highly unlikely to use it.

We thought about that with the names, her skittishness and another new thing to adapt to, so thank you for the advice. We may well keep Sally for a bit, or find some way to work in the new name slowly so it doesn't overwhelm her. It does seem like these were the names they were given upon rescue, although at this point that was a number of months back. Bear/Baylor doesn't really seem to know his name yet, but Sally somewhat does, another point towards keeping it. I just really don't like the short name "Sal" and worry we'd end up using it, if we kept Sally entirely. But again we don't want to totally unsettle her right off the bat, any more than she already will be, that is.

You're also right that we can and will have lots of private names, so it may end up not being that big of a deal either way. At least it's not a name we hate! We'll have to see how responsive she is to it, since she does seem to be more responsive to Sally than Bear is to Bear.

I do realize all dogs have to settle in upon adoption in their own way, but on the plus side, it sounds like Bear has taken pretty much every step of the way in stride and adjusted to new routines quickly, so he may be able to set a good example for her once he has a bit to adjust himself. I know she will cling to him regardless, I just hope the example he sets is good! We'll get there with the both of them.