Puppy Forum and Dog Forums banner

1 - 20 of 130 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
192 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
as in somebody that is intentionally breeding healthy purebreds to make a healthy mix breed.

or is my dog a once in a lifetime "find?"

Realizing part of what makes Zoey, Zoey is her life experiences. But there are some things that are unmistakeably Rott, and some are clearly Lab.

If they are out there, how do I *find* them?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,936 Posts
yes, but only certain mixes..your not likley to find any responsable breeders breeding lab/rottie X's for example, where as their are responsable "doodle" breedes out there as well as those breeding working mixes, and also people out there doing outcrosses to other breeds to help make certian purebreds healthier. if your wanting another lab/Rottie though your better off with a rescue, doesnt matter if you find a "breeder" or not, genetics could still result in anything, your dont get to pick and choose the traits lol
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
554 Posts
I think a responsible breeder is someone who health tests the parents, makes sure they have good temprements, socializes the puppies, and has ethical standards (no overbreeding, etc.). If someone takes a healthy Lab and a healthy Rott, and breeds them...I don't see the problem with that. I think problems happen when certain breeds have ridiculous health problems because of unresponsible breeding of untested parents, not when two healthy dogs of a different breed are mated.

Not sure how to find them, though! Search the classifieds for a mix you want, then go visit the breeders, make sure you see both parents, ask what health testing was done on the parents, etc.

Personally, if I was looking for a mix, I would go to a shelter. When I decided to buy a purebred, I did so because I loved the temperament, and I knew it was the breed for me. And the breed I had chosen has a lot of health problems, so I didn't want to get one from a shelter because I didn't want those health problems springing up later in life. I went with a breeder because I knew they had tested my future, predictable-temperament dog for health issues present in the breed.

So, what I'm saying is: all those reasons for buying from a breeder don't really exist with a mixed breed. Their temperaments can vary - your next Rott/Lab mix may act more Rott than Lab. And I'm not 100% positive, but I think breed-specific problems (like Collie Eye Anomaly) have a much smaller chance of developing in a mixed breed.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,307 Posts
I'm just gonna give the question a blanket covers all "NO" they are starting out irresponsible by cross breeding for design dogs in 1st place and now since we have got grocery shopping for week done which included much pop corn I will retire from this thread.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,277 Posts
Even with the doodles, it's hard to find good ethics, and if it's a mixed breed litter, odds are very, very, very slim that they would be doing everything totally ethical. It just doesn't happen very often! Usually if someone (for example) goes to the trouble of getting hips and eyes etc. done on their lab, they're going to find another lab with testing done to breed to, not someone with a rottie with all the testing done. More often it's 'let's breed our lab! Oh cool, the neighbor's rottie isn't fixed, there's our stud!' and then you get puppies.

Go on petfinder and search for 'lab/lab mixes' and you should have several thousand to choose from. Don't support someone who figured they'd just breed mixes for fun. There's no way they're working to improve traits or conformation or working ability with that sort of cross.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13,075 Posts
I'm just gonna give the question a blanket covers all "NO" they are starting out irresponsible by cross breeding for design dogs in 1st place and now since we have got grocery shopping for week done which included much pop corn I will retire from this thread.
Agreed! My two are only going to be 6 years old and are falling apart! :( I love them to death ......... but it is becoming issue after issue. All I have are curly haired non-shedding rodent killers. Purebred Terriers from responsible breeders are bred for that purpose IMHO. My dogs were a gift ............
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
149 Posts
Yes, there are valid reasons for creating a new "mix" with compatible breeds. If they go about it as any other responsible breeder of an established breed, I have no problem with it. Mixes like the Puggle, on the other hand, I have a big problem with.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
61 Posts
I agree with most of the others that it would be very difficult to find a responsible breeder of mixes. Granted, there are responsible breeders who may very very rarely have mix puppies they have to place (whether they be rescues or the result of an accidental breeding), but deliberate breeding of mixes or irresponsibility to the extent that they're produced frequently is a huge red flag (the latter more than the former I suppose).

That being said, as others have mentioned there are perfectly legitimate reasons for crossing breeds if you have a purpose in mind with the cross and all the health testing, etc. that would be required of any of the parent breeds done. It's just a very rare find, and usually shelters and rescues are the best places to go to get crossbred dogs. Especially if you're looking for something like a Lab mix.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,779 Posts
Agreed! My two are only going to be 6 years old and are falling apart! :( I love them to death ......... but it is becoming issue after issue. All I have are curly haired non-shedding rodent killers. Purebred Terriers from responsible breeders are bred for that purpose IMHO. My dogs were a gift ............
Personal anecdote multiplied does not equal a statistic. I'm sure we can all come up with stories to support what we believe. None of us own dogs in the numbers required to show any kind of health trend.

Would it help you to know that my neighbor's 'reputably' bred Toy Poodle, my friend's Papillon, my MILs Bichon, my friend's Cavalier and my other friend's Dashchund and Chihuahua were all in the same 'fall apart' state at about the same age and going forward? All acquired via show community references, BTW.

SOB
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13,075 Posts
Personal anecdote multiplied does not equal a statistic. I'm sure we can all come up with stories to support what we believe. None of us own dogs in the numbers required to show any kind of health trend.

Would it help you to know that my neighbor's 'reputably' bred Toy Poodle, my friend's Papillon, my MILs Bichon, my friend's Cavalier and my other friend's Dashchund and Chihuahua were all in the same 'fall apart' state at about the same age and going forward? All acquired via show community references, BTW.

SOB[/QUOTE

Correct ... not a statistic .... just an unfortunate story ...

Still, I am aware of the possibilities in any breed or mix and any reputable breeder ... show potential or companion dog .... the health issues still remain ... and do occur. I guess I am just wishing that everyone would do health testing and not so many animals end up suffering when it could have maybe possibly been avoided in the first place .... if that makes any sense? I just believe that if you aquire a pup or dog from someone who health tested ... there is a better chance of good health than not doing anything at all. :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,779 Posts
Correct ... not a statistic .... just an unfortunate story ...

Still, I am aware of the possibilities in any breed or mix and any reputable breeder ... show potential or companion dog .... the health issues still remain ... and do occur. I guess I am just wishing that everyone would do health testing and not so many animals end up suffering when it could have maybe possibly been avoided in the first place .... if that makes any sense? I just believe that if you aquire a pup or dog from someone who health tested ... there is a better chance of good health than not doing anything at all. :)
I do wish much the same Abbylynn. My focus is not so much on just health screening as an indication that breeders are breeding healthy dogs as that can be a smokescreen. Some of the unhealthiest breeds have breeders that do a TON of health testing. :) Through all that you are still likely to end up with some problems if the breeders are limited to higher risk stock in the first place.

I know other breeds - Papillons being one, Tibetan Spaniels another, where many 'top' breeders neglect to show screening for anything.

I wish pets were bred for health, first and foremost. Generally testing is an indication that breeders have health as a concern but breeder's methods of how to get that also might differ according to what they are breeding and their knowledge behind.

SOB
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
192 Posts
Discussion Starter #12 (Edited)
We've encountered both ends of the spectrum in relation to health issues, and I suppose that's what got me pondering the question to begin with. Years ago we had a GSD/Lab Mix with Discoid Lupus. At the time, it was believed to be a consequence of poor breeding, to the best of my knowledge, it still is. He was sick 8 out of his 12 years alive. He also had terrible dysplasia, he was never able to jump. Zoey on the other hand, has only just now developed hypothyroidism at 10. This is her first issue that required a check up in less than a year. See the difference? Zoey's been day after day of smiles. A lot of tears were shed over poor Steely.

We want to get another dog, and we'd really like to rescue again, but Zoey's been struggling with adult dogs. However, she's been super interested in puppies. We aren't usually puppy people, and maybe I take some pride in going out on a limb for an adult dog. So, if I'm going to lay aside one principle, why not another and go to a breeder? (***note: I am in no way judging folks that got their dogs from breeders, rescue is just something important to my heart) Why not go for exactly what I want? (short of going to a pet store)

Abbylynn, I agree with you! I wish everyone did health testing too. All doggies are important, and they all deserve good health!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,936 Posts
I understand the puppy thing, but its not like puppies dont end up in rescue...my Shelter has 3 litters right now: 2 rough collies, 10 Lab X's, and 2 Shepherd X's. I have 2 puppies I recently adopted, and my cousin just adopted 2 puppies as well
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
259 Posts
Obviously, breeders producing mixed puppies are a lesser commodity. Even so, I don't see a reason from the ethical standpoint that a breeder that were to produce mixes at least on a limited but intentional basis has to be labeled as irresponsible or unethical. What's to say that said breeder couldn't do it in just as responsible of a way as breeding 2 purebreds of the same breed? "Hey, I know all the history behind these 2 dogs of the same breed that I'm breeding and have done all my homework and they are/aren't carriers of x, y, and z and therefore should produce xxx healthy puppies" simply could turn to the same exact thing with 2 purebreds of differing breeds. Of course, there's still the variable in the fact that no 2 mixes will ever be the same. You just can't be absolutely certain what the outcomes will be, as any given dog may take any particular trait from either/any breed that is in its makeup.

Yes, I know that there's much more to it for the good breeders out there and I am simplifying it very much so, but just throwing the basic thought out there.

But with that said, once you get into breeding mixed dogs to make ever more diversified of a mix, you're simply not going to be able to do it in as "responsible" of a way because at that point it's going to become much more difficult to know the background and details of each dog and the outcomes continue to multiply exponentially.

And, of course, trying to find someone that happens to be "responsibly" producing whatever random mix you may desire just takes it up another few steps on the difficulty ladder. Outside of the popular designer breeds, it's a crap shoot and you'll probably have a ridiculous search ahead of you or just have to stumble across said mix in a shelter somewhere. There's really no good way to say where to find such a breeder other than to search and search and search and hope to come across someone with what you want.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,391 Posts
I had a Golden x Lab x Irish Setter (?) that lived to 13 yo with minimal problems.
My GSD x Dobie lived to 17, but had bad teeth (b/c I didn't know to brush), was blind, deaf (no major discomfort), and arthritic.
My current Lab x GSD is 11 yo, is in excellent condition, but has many fatty lumps, a minor allergy, and recurrent yeasty ear infections (probably related to the allergies).

I feel that I've been very lucky with the choice of mutts who have adopted me. I would like to find someone who would create a healthy Lab x GSD 'purebred.'
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,946 Posts
I wonder if some of the wonderful qualities about Zoey are attributable more to the individual than her breeds. Getting stuck on the breed or breed mix can lead you to pass up lots of fabulous dogs. Even with purebreds, there's a lot of variation between individuals in terms of their temperament, so getting a dog of the same breed is no guarantee that they'll be much like your current dog.

I love shelter mutts, and own one myself. I really like her breed mix (BC x pointer, I think), but it's not something I'll go out of my way to find in the future, as I probably won't find many. Instead, I'll be looking for a border collie mix, around 30-35lbs, healthy, and with a temperament similar to that of my current dog. I got very lucky once, and if I choose wisely, I'm sure I can do it again.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,931 Posts
IMO, no. I don't agree with the argument that all dogs come from mixes....if someone has a health tested lab and health tested rottie and wants to breed them', I don't get why. Breed rotties, breed labs, don't breed mutts because that's what they are.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
259 Posts
IMO, no. I don't agree with the argument that all dogs come from mixes....if someone has a health tested lab and health tested rottie and wants to breed them', I don't get why. Breed rotties, breed labs, don't breed mutts because that's what they are.
What's wrong with "mutts" though? Is it a rule that the dog mustn't be a good dog because it's a mix of breeds?

While I'm not one to argue that "all dogs come from mixes," many so many of the breeds we know and love today have been improved upon over the last 50, 100, 200, whatever years by having their lines mixed somewhere with other breeds. Now, yes, this is typically done to better a particular breed in some way while still keeping it pretty well recognizable as the same breed, and not with the intention of making a designer breed, but still.

Perhaps you're really just against the idea of designer breeds, of breeders who focus on breeding 2 purebreds of different breeds just to make some "cool" puppies. Nothing wrong with being against that; I don't think it's really the best thing either. But the way your response reads, it seems you're simply against mixed dogs of any sort for any reason. And maybe you are.

I think responsible breeding is just that, it doesn't matter what you breed... its how and why you do it that matters.
Agreed. Opinions of whether it's right or wrong, if you're doing it in what most of us would call a "responsible" manner, than there's at least some value in that.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,074 Posts
no, why wouldd i buy a designer breed when i can go to the shelter & get the same dog (oftentimes) for a cheaper (sorry for lack of a better term) fee that is tax deductable & most importantly i save a life :)
 
1 - 20 of 130 Posts
Top