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Discussion Starter #1
Hi,

I was on another forum and they claimed my Pomeranian is a hybrid and not a purebreed. She is 1 year old and weighs 8 pounds (she is slightly overweight).
I got her from a pet store which gave her AKC records with her bloodline, so I dont understand how she can be a hybrid? Please help!



 

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She has a papillon-looking face shape (and markings) and the papillon hare-shaped feet (poms usually have rounder feet like a cat). You can see that Crystal's feet are long and have the "points" of hair on the toes in this picture. I wouldn't be at all surprised if your dog is a pom/pap mix.

Sub-standard breeders (where pet store pups come from) can lie on their AKC registrations. They can register a litter as having two purebred pom parents when really one of the parents was a different dog entirely. I have seen "papillons" in pet stores that were certainly not purebred, even though they were registered as such.

Also, do you regularly have her shaved? Shaving a double-coated dog isn't a great idea -- they need the coat for insulation and to protect against sunburn, and repeated shaving can wreck the coat, making it not grow in properly in the future.
 

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Well first off, even if she is a mixed breed, she wouldn't be a hybrid because she's definitely all dog. A hybrid is a mix of more than one species and all dog breeds are the same species.

Next, did you buy her from the pet store or was she at an adoption event at the pet store? This is a big difference. If you bought her directly from the pet store she most likely came from a puppy mill. Puppy mill puppies are often technically purebred, (as in, the parents were both poms) but the breeders don't pay attention to breeding to standard (the guidelines for what the breed should look/act like) and so the dogs can often end up looking kind of "off" though they are technically purebred. I don't know much about pomeranians so I don't really know if she meets the standard or not. But if you did buy her from a pet store I recommend looking up some info on puppy mills. It's really best to not support them, as they aren't in it for the dogs, but just for the money.
 

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Also, do you regularly have her shaved? Shaving a double-coated dog isn't a great idea -- they need the coat for insulation and to protect against sunburn, and repeated shaving can wreck the coat, making it not grow in properly in the future.
Interesting point. I have seen quite a few Poms in lion cuts like the OP's. They're very cute. But I wasn't aware that Poms had a double coat. I wonder why the cut is so popular?
 

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Interesting point. I have seen quite a few Poms in lion cuts like the OP's. They're very cute. But I wasn't aware that Poms had a double coat. I wonder why the cut is so popular?
Because it looks like a tiny little lion of course! And because it seems pretty harmless if you don't know any better.
 

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Discussion Starter #6 (Edited)
But wouldnt the extra large Papillon ears and extra long ear hair be passed on? She was from a pet store, not an adoption event. The reason she was shaved was that she developed matts from me not able to groom her very well she always bit the brush, so I brought her to a groomer to remove the matts and it was Summer when this was done so I thought it would keep her cooler and feel better.

Well first off, even if she is a mixed breed, she wouldn't be a hybrid because she's definitely all dog. A hybrid is a mix of more than one species and all dog breeds are the same species.

Next, did you buy her from the pet store or was she at an adoption event at the pet store? This is a big difference. If you bought her directly from the pet store she most likely came from a puppy mill. Puppy mill puppies are often technically purebred, (as in, the parents were both poms) but the breeders don't pay attention to breeding to standard (the guidelines for what the breed should look/act like) and so the dogs can often end up looking kind of "off" though they are technically purebred. I don't know much about pomeranians so I don't really know if she meets the standard or not. But if you did buy her from a pet store I recommend looking up some info on puppy mills. It's really best to not support them, as they aren't in it for the dogs, but just for the money.
But wouldnt the extra large Papillon ears and extra long ear hair be passed on? She was from a pet store, not an adoption event.

The reason she was shaved was that she developed matts from me not able to groom her very well she always bit the brush and she got poo tangled in her hair when she went in her crate while I was away, so I brought her to a groomer to remove the matts and it was Summer when this was done so I thought it would keep her cooler and feel better. She only got that once and thats it. She still will not let me brish her and i'm worried what I will do to keep her hair matt free?
 

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But wouldnt the extra large Papillon ears and extra long ear hair be passed on?
Maybe, but not necessarily. Genetics are complicated. There's some folks on this forum with puppies born from an Alaskan husky mother...they all look like bully mixes, and if I didn't know their mother was an Alaskan husky I would never have guessed!
 

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Will a Vet do DNA testing, and how much would it be? She's a great companion, but if she is mixed, I want to know what breed, so I can be aware of other breed related health problems to look out for.
 

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Will a Vet do DNA testing, and how much would it be? She's a great companion, but if she is mixed, I want to know what breed, so I can be aware of other breed related health problems to look out for.
The price varies depending on what test you use (I don't think you'd need to go to the vet) but none of them are very accurate, to be quite honest! I imagine pomeranians would have similar health problems as papillons since (I believe) they are related breeds and both toy breeds.
 

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Will a Vet do DNA testing, and how much would it be?
The DNA tests are really not worth your money.

I would guess that the dog is probably purebred, just not well-bred (i.e. bred with any attempt to meet the standard). As everyone else has mentioned, being from a pet-store, she's from a puppy-mill. Honestly, considering that fact, I would be thanking my lucky stars that she doesn't seem to have any major health issues currently and hope that none develop in the future. Does it really matter if she's purebred or not? She's your dog and there's no way to every know for certain whether she's a mix or not. Love her for what she is and do your research and go with a reputable breeder if you want guarantees next time you buy a puppy.
 

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Looks like a typical, over standard, fox faced, flat coated pom. Shaving the coat actually doesn't make them cooler, all it does is open the dog to the elements, opens the dog to getting sunburned and in the long run she will be hotter because she doesn't have that protection. The coat protects them from the cold, but not only that it works to insulate them from the heat.

BYBs/Puppy Millers (where your dog came from) breed over standard dogs (at least in toy dogs) because they can carry more puppies without problems.
 

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But wouldnt the extra large Papillon ears and extra long ear hair be passed on?
Not necessarily. If you Google "paperanian" (ugh) or "pomeranian papillon mix," you'll see a lot of very different-looking dogs! It's the nature of a mix. This is a pretty common mix recently, as well.

I see a lot of the fox-faced out-of-standard poms around here... but this one just looks a bit papillon to me. Her feet are almost exactly Crystal's feet. Could be papillon somewhere in there, maybe not 50/50. There really aren't any guarantees when you buy from a pet store.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Well either way she is a great dog and that's what matters! Any suggestions though what I can do for grooming that wont ruin her coat since brushing is not working well at all.
 

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You need to get her used to the brush, because letting her get matted is very bad -- it can create sores on her skin from the matted hair pulling on them. The shaving, as mentioned, is also bad for her coat and can lead to her getting sunburned or bug-bitten. If she hates the sight of the brush, I'd just take it out, show it to her, give her treats (really tasty stuff that she doesn't get any other time -- maybe even dab peanut butter on the back of the brush for her to lick off), and then put the brush away. Do this for a few days until she's happy to see the brush because she knows the best treats come with it! Then you can move on to lightly stroking her a couple of times with the brush while holding the tasty food in front of her for her to lick at. Praise her, give her the treats and put the brush away. Gradually work up to brushing her for longer and longer periods each day. There are more good tips here.

Also, do these things to get her used to being handled in all sorts of ways.
 

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As a Pomeranian I will say that your dog is a full bred Pomeranian. However she is of pet quality and not show so when you look at most poms on the internet and see a small fur ball or a tail flat on its back that is the breed standard.
 

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Well first off, even if she is a mixed breed, she wouldn't be a hybrid because she's definitely all dog. A hybrid is a mix of more than one species and all dog breeds are the same species.
I'm sorry, but this is is incorrect. It's a big misconception that hybrids are always two different species. They can be, of course (example: liger = tiger x lion), but they aren't always. According to the dictionary, a hybrid is "two animals or plants of different breeds, varieties, species, or genera". Therefore, a hybrid is not necessarily two different species. If the OP's dog was pap x pom, then it would be correct to call it a hybrid, although the term is rarely used for dogs. Another example: hybrid vigor in corn is from mixing two different inbred lines of corn (one species). If you don't believe me, check out this wikipedia article on heterosis (or hybrid vigor): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heterosis I'll give you three guesses what species is pictured!!!
 

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I'm sorry, but this is is incorrect. It's a big misconception that hybrids are always two different species. They can be, of course (example: liger = tiger x lion), but they aren't always. According to the dictionary, a hybrid is "two animals or plants of different breeds, varieties, species, or genera". Therefore, a hybrid is not necessarily two different species. If the OP's dog was pap x pom, then it would be correct to call it a hybrid, although the term is rarely used for dogs. Another example: hybrid vigor in corn is from mixing two different inbred lines of corn (one species). If you don't believe me, check out this wikipedia article on heterosis (or hybrid vigor): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heterosis I'll give you three guesses what species is pictured!!!
Ok, I concede. My bad. :p
 

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As a pom owner I think she looks like a pom, just a poor example of one.... which is honestly to be expected if you purchased her from a pet store. You may never know for sure, even with AKC papers.

As far as the color/markings - she looks like the result of a parti bred to a solid, nothing more... and poms come in just about every color under the sun.
 

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Well she is adorable and like you said that's all that matters. Does she have problems with potty training? This might help you get an idea if she came from a puppy mill, as most puppy mill dogs have no concept of hygiene since they live in their own waste.

As far as the brushing, I agree with the training suggestion. If nothing else you can always take her to the groomer to give her a good brushing. Training is always the best option though since it will actually cure the problem.

Good luck and I hope you stick around, much knowledge is to be had here =)
 
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