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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
He is supposed to be a CKC miniature schnauzer, but, allegedly, the papers were never applied for due to the $70 fee involved.

1. He is big for a miniature schnauzer. He weighs about 27 lbs.
2. His fur is curly like a poodle.
3. He bears a strong resemblance to a Kerry Blue Terrier.
4. He is not black. He is gray, especially in the sun. He was black as a puppy but is now blue-gray.
5. I've ordered an Embark DNA test, but the results won't be back for a while. I'll report back after I get the results.

Here are some pics.
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I'd guess he's a poodle mix before a Kerry Blue - it'd be really strange for a relatively uncommon purebred puppy to have been mis-sold as a much more common breed. They don't tend to have standing ears, either.

If by the CKC you mean Continental Kennel Club, this sadly isn't a very reputable organization, used by commercial breeders to be able to claim their dogs are 'papered', but there is very little oversight to make sure the dogs are being registered as the correct breed. If this is the case, it's possible that your pup's parents weren't purebred Schnauzers even if they were registered as such.
 

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Agree, looks more like a poodle (poodle mix). How old is he? Puppy hair on a mini schnauzer can be curly, especially when it's clippered, but his hair is very curly. Can you tell if he has a double coat? Schnauzers are double coated, poodles are single.

A black schnauzer's hair can lighten to brown/dark grey when is clippered, so that part is normal for a schnauzer. But usually the ears on a purebred schnauzer fold over. I have seen them with sticky uppy ears, but not sure if they were purebred.

This is only my observation, having kept schnauzers since I was 9YO.

He's very cute btw!
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 · (Edited)
He does not have a double coat and does not shed. I didn't mean to imply that I believe he is a purebred. I said he is "allegedly" CKC. His previous owner claimed he did not file the paperwork due to the $70 fee. I have never seen a poodle mix with erect ears. His body type is also like a schnauzer. In one of the pics, you can see my 12lbs female AKC miniature schnauzer for size reference.




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Maybe he is a schnauzer with very curly hair and sticky uppy ears. He looks pretty schnauzer stocky in the body.

My 1st schnauzer was also a big boy. He weighed 23lbs and accidentally went up to 27lbs (I didn't notice he got overweight). How tall does he stand at the shoulder? By conformation, they should max at 14 inches tall, but my current schnauzer pup is already 14.5 inches tall. The body is close to square, same length as height.

Seeing the rest of the pics, I think he could be purebred schnauzer with very curly hair.

When they are clippered, the undercoat takes over and wire hair either never develops or the undercoat outgrows it. That's why maybe it seems like he has a single coat like a poodle. Does your little girl have a double coat?

My schnauzer girls have all been rather large as well, in the 18lbs range and 14" tall. But they can be tiny like your girl as well. Actually by standards they are between 12-14 inches tall.
 

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It'll be interesting to see what the Embark comes back with! I'd still say that, if he is a mix, poodle is more likely to be in there than KBT. Unless his breeder also bred KBT? Looking forward to seeing what the results say!
 

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Looks like a schnoodle to me. Maybe 3/4 schnauzer 1/4 poodle. That's my Embark bet.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 · (Edited)
She will soon be three years old. He just turned two. Their fur is totally different. His hair is super soft and curly. Her hair is a little courser and wavy. We have them clippered about every six weeks. That's the longest we've ever let her get in the pic below. The reason I mentioned Kerry Blue Terriers is that after a bath, he can look exactly like this stock picture one, minus the floppy ears, longer tail, and unique way they trim the face. Here is another picture of them together. They are bonded. She is a bit more aggressive. He is more active and loving. I used to get him the schnauzer cut with the skirt, but now I prefer him to look like the stock Kerry Blue pic but with a schnauzer face trim. I have to trim around his eyes every few days with rounded-tip scissors. Mollie's eyebrows grow up and out. His grow right down over his eyes. Also, the hair between his eyes is curly and wants to obscure his vision. Mollie's fur parts naturally right in the middle of her nose. All in all, she is a little easier to maintain.

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I'm another one who thinks probably a Schnauzer x Poodle mix.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
I had always thought the same thing about him having poodle in him, but I haven't ever seen a schnoodle, a pretty popular breed, that looks anything like him. Just do a google images search for schnoodles. Their body structure is completely different, and they definitely don't have the erect ears. Then I saw the Kerry Blue, and I said dang, he might be a mix between a Kerry Blue and a miniature schnauzer. I think they call them miniature Kerry Blue schnauzers. Hopefully the DNA test will offer some insight. I got him when he was 6 months old. He hasn't gotten any taller, but he was scalped at the time. He had the schnauzer skirt cut, and the hair on the top of his head and back was buzzed almost to the skin. He looked totally different than now. He looks twice as big with all of his curly fur. I have a feeling he will have something like German Shepherd in him to explain those ears when I get the DNA test back. Schnauzers owners don't think he is purebred schnauzer. We went to a little German town on vacation and bumped into quite a few miniature schnauzer parents at the local dog park. They loved Mollie but dismissed him as a half-breed. We love them both equally. We are just curious about him. It's obvious what she is, but he is a bit of a mystery.
 

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Eh, lots of mini schnauzers have bat ears. A friend of mine has a schnoodle (confirmed parentage) that looks like he could be bros with yours. It'll be interesting to see what Embark says.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 · (Edited)
Eh, lots of mini schnauzers have bat ears. A friend of mine has a schnoodle (confirmed parentage) that looks like he could be bros with yours. It'll be interesting to see what Embark says.
I'd be fine with that. Here is what just about every schnoodle I've ever seen looks like. That's him on the right at 6 months old. I will just need to see a schnoodle that looks more like him I guess.

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Could also possibly be a Scottish Terrier x Poodle, for that matter. That very last photo of him makes me think Scottie.
 

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There's a ton of variation in schnauzer/poodle crosses, especially once you get past a 50/50 schnauzer/poodle cross, because it's hugely unpredictable which breed traits they inherit. But there absolutely could be something else out there as well - genetics are wild and definitely don't always produce the looks/behavior you'd expect!
 

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You'll have to let us know what embark says. I'll agree, he looks really close to a kerri blue in that post without the skirt. R . If the breeders bred both kerris and schnauzers, I admit, he's mostly a cross. Regardless he really looks like a kerri.

Genetics ARE wild, but I find the body is very stocky for poodle. You'd have to find a schnoodle that inherited the same stocky strong build.

Can't wait for the results!
 

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There's a ton of variation in schnauzer/poodle crosses, especially once you get past a 50/50 schnauzer/poodle cross, because it's hugely unpredictable which breed traits they inherit. But there absolutely could be something else out there as well - genetics are wild and definitely don't always produce the looks/behavior you'd expect!
Ain't that the truth? My late Ilka, who was 22" tall, weighed just under 50#, could run as fast as a Whippet, and clear my 6' fence in pretty much one leap, was supposedly 37-74% Bulldog, 20-36% Italian Greyhound, 10-19% American Staffordshire Terrier and 10-19% Collie according to the cheapie test I had done on her. Ummm.... Bulldog?

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Discussion Starter · #19 · (Edited)
Could also possibly be a Scottish Terrier x Poodle, for that matter. That very last photo of him makes me think Scottie.
You'll have to let us know what embark says. I'll agree, he looks really close to a kerri blue in that post without the skirt. R . If the breeders bred both kerris and schnauzers, I admit, he's mostly a cross. Regardless he really looks like a kerri.

Genetics ARE wild, but I find the body is very stocky for poodle. You'd have to find a schnoodle that inherited the same stocky strong build.

Can't wait for the results!
You'll have to let us know what embark says. I'll agree, he looks really close to a kerri blue in that post without the skirt. R . If the breeders bred both kerris and schnauzers, I admit, he's mostly a cross. Regardless he really looks like a kerri.

Genetics ARE wild, but I find the body is very stocky for poodle. You'd have to find a schnoodle that inherited the same stocky strong build.

Can't wait for the results!
Will do. I already ordered the DNA kit!
Update: I swabbed his cheek last night and got the sample in the mail today.

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Discussion Starter · #20 · (Edited)
The results just came in. I guess the guy I bought him from when he was six months old was shooting me straight. He said he is a CKC miniature schnauzer, but he just didn't send in the paperwork because it costs $70.
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