Is it just impossible to get a Bernedoodle right now?

10701 Views 28 Replies 14 Participants Last post by Angelglenn, Apr 26, 2020

flickz

Discussion Starter · Apr 9, 2019

Hi, I've been looking for a breeder with Bernedoodle puppies (tri-color, mini or standard size). All the ones I've found either have an 8+ month waiting list or seem a bit sketch The two without waiting lists I found are Crockett Doodles, which seems to have drama, and Hurricane Creek Doodles site which seems off, but maybe I'm wrong. So, I have a few questions:

- Am I out of luck?
- How can I vet breeders like Hurricane Creek Doodles? What health tests should I expect them to have run?

I have read the guide on finding a good breeder, but am wondering about the specifics for Bernedoodles, and what some good resources might be to find good breeders.

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3GSD4IPO

· #2 · Apr 9, 2019

I will likely get nailed to a wall for saying this, but why oh why would you spend money to BUY a mutt?

You would be far and away better off getting EITHER a Bernese Mountain dog OR a Poodle.

These "Doodle Crosses" are typically not from the best of either breed. A top line Poodle breeder would never allow a well bred dog to enter into a Doodle breeding program. A top line "other breed" breeder would be of the same thinking.

The F1 generation is often "variable" with the off spring usually following one or the other parent. The F2 generation can be even less type reliable. These two breeds are quite different temperamentally and the mix can create a dog with conflict.

Every time I see these crosses named I cringe. Yorkipoo, Borador, Border Jack, Labradoodle, Bernedoodle, Goldendoodle and the list goes on ad nauseum.

You will pay large money for a mixed breed dog with (usually) unreliable genetics and NO real health testing (x rays for hips, elbows and spine, CERF for eyes, and genetic tests for each breeds genetic issues). Most of these breeders will say "Oh the dog is health tested" meaning "I take the puppy to the vet at 7 weeks old for shots and worming." That is a health EXAM not a genetic or health TEST.

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flickz

Discussion Starter · #3 · Apr 9, 2019

3GSD4IPO said:
I will likely get nailed to a wall for saying this, but why oh why would you spend money to BUY a mutt?

You would be far and away better off getting EITHER a Bernese Mountain dog OR a Poodle.

These "Doodle Crosses" are typically not from the best of either breed. A top line Poodle breeder would never allow a well bred dog to enter into a Doodle breeding program. A top line "other breed" breeder would be of the same thinking.

The F1 generation is often "variable" with the off spring usually following one or the other parent. The F2 generation can be even less type reliable. These two breeds are quite different temperamentally and the mix can create a dog with conflict.

Every time I see these crosses named I cringe. Yorkipoo, Borador, Border Jack, Labradoodle, Bernedoodle, Goldendoodle and the list goes on ad nauseum.

You will pay large money for a mixed breed dog with (usually) unreliable genetics and NO real health testing (x rays for hips, elbows and spine, CERF for eyes, and genetic tests for each breeds genetic issues). Most of these breeders will say "Oh the dog is health tested" meaning "I take the puppy to the vet at 7 weeks old for shots and worming." That is a health EXAM not a genetic or health TEST.

Let's just cut off this point right here because i am simply dead set on getting a poodle mix. It is best left for a different thread.

Do health tests come with difficult-to-fake verifications?

Canyx

· #4 · Apr 9, 2019

Having trained with a lot of 'doodles' I'm not impressed by the general temperaments I've seen... But I get the appeal.

You want to check sites like OFA. They cannot fake that. However, a lot of bad breeders are wising up and saying they did hips, elbows, eyes, etc. but they cannot be found on the OFA website. Just a simple 'vet check says they are in incredible health' says nothing.

LeoRose

· #5 · Apr 9, 2019

To follow up on Canyx's post, these are the recommended tests for Bernese Mountain Dogs https://www.ofa.org/recommended-tests?breed=BMD&var= and these are the recommended tests for Standard Poodles https://www.ofa.org/recommended-tests?breed=PO&var=STD Don't believe anyone who says that designer mixes are automatically healthier than purebreds.

As far as the breeders you mentioned, I don't care for either. Crockett looks like they are a pyramid scheme with farmed out dogs (something I first saw with the largest commercial Doberman and Rottweiler breeder in the country), and Hurricane Creek doesn't appear to do anything with their dogs except breed them.

dalans

· #6 · Apr 9, 2019

where are you located? PM me and I can chat with you about our experience with our bernedoodle.
Dave

parus

· #7 · Apr 9, 2019 (Edited)

I'm not one for breed purity but I don't understand the doodle thing. It seems like all the traits people who are looking for doodles say they want are poodle traits, so why not just get a poodle?

dalans

· #8 · Apr 9, 2019

The bernese seems to give the dog a more docile character than a standard poodle, and bernedoodles come out bigger, sturdier dogs than poodles too.

Lillith

· #9 · Apr 9, 2019

You're likely not going to find a truly ethical breeder for any type of Doodle. They are likely in it for the money, most appear to be the BYB sort, and I have yet to see a breeder who actually health tests (like, real OFA health tests), or who I feel meticulously researches and pairs two dogs to reach a desirable, stable temperament. I am not against breeding two dogs of different breeds, but I feel like if it is done, it should be with a clear purpose in mind. It seems the purpose of Doodles is to make a cute, fluffy dog that looks like a teddy bear and sells well.

If you are dead set on getting a poodle mix, I would suggest a shelter where you won't be forking over thousands of dollars for what is basically a mutt. I'm not saying mutts are bad in any way, shape, or form, but if I pay $1,500 plus for a dog, I want to know that the breeder spent plenty of time ensuring their breeding stock possesses a desirable temperament, they have health tested their breeding stock, they have researched each dog's pedigree, and they started the puppies off right.

If you are dead set on going the breeder route, at least make sure the breeder allows you to meet the parents (or, at the very least, the mother), that the breeder does not have more than one litter per year, that if something should go wrong the breeder will take the dog back, and that the breeder health tests.

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3GSD4IPO

· #10 · Apr 9, 2019

flickz said:
Let's just cut off this point right here because i am simply dead set on getting a poodle mix. It is best left for a different thread.

Do health tests come with difficult-to-fake verifications?

My point is you will be very unlikely to get true health tests on any Doodle mix.

You will do what you want (and that is OK) but you may end up with a number of health problems because the dogs used to establish the cross are often Back Yard Bred dogs.

I currently know of several "doodles" that have health issues such as dysplastic hips/elbows, seizures (from the poodle side), Addisons's disease, diabetes, blindness (glaucoma), entropion, atopy (allergies) and discoid lupus.

When dogs are bred for money and NOT for physical and mental soundness you can get a real mess.

You need to decide what temperament you want FIRST and then decide what dog (and breed of dog) you want second. Meeting ONE "wonderful" member of any breed dogs does not mean that is the temperament for the rest of the members of that breed.

I wish you luck.

parus

· #11 · Apr 9, 2019

3GSD4IPO said:
You will do what you want (and that is OK) but you may end up with a number of health problems because the dogs used to establish the cross are often Back Yard Bred dogs.

Yup. And that's especially risky with berners, which have a lamentably short typical lifespan even among well-bred animals.

laurelsmom

· #12 · Apr 9, 2019

I can't judge you because Poodles. But...

Just fyi, there are alleged Bernedoodle pups on my local (rural USA) Craig's List. When dogs are treated as commodities, I have heard that dog brokers are not always honest about correctly labeling products, that products are sometimes overstocked, and that overstock liquidation is extremely not nice.

Also fyi, whatever you do you're going to love your dog a lot more than you think is possible right now. Nobody wants a dog that's going to get cancer, it just isn't as common knowledge that 60% of Golden Retrievers die of some sort of cancer as it is that Goldens are cute, friendly, and love kids.

Francl27

· #13 · Apr 9, 2019

I wouldn't really mind doodle breeding if they did all the health testing on the parents (whatever each breed requires), but I have yet to find a breeder that actually does that... So yes, you might be out of luck. Again... "hybrid vigor" will never help you if both parents have health issues. So that's my first issue with Crocket Doodle, and yeah... no mention whatsoever about health testing, or even the parents or what their temperament is... it's just pretty much a puppy mill (and Christmas puppies. Argh). The other one... apparently 'health testing' for them is DNA testing, so nope, nope, nope.

Really, I don't see anything wrong if people like the look of doodles, as long as they realize that one doodle will never look like another doodle. The issue with this mix though is that Berneses have a very short life span, honestly that's what turned me off from them in the first place. And getting one from a questionable place means that you could end up with a dog with a lot of health or temperament issues (I've had a puppy mill dog, and met a couple more... I REALLY don't recommend it). I mean, you could rescue a poodle mix instead, at least you won't encourage someone keep breeding potentially badly tempered and unhealthy dogs in the process for money.

If you're set on a doodle... find a mix with a breeder that does all the health testing at least (that's hips, eyes, and whatever else both breeds are prone to, NOT DNA tests), and meet the parents to make sure that they are nice, friendly dogs. And yes, like every single breed (or mix) that's bred more responsibly... there will probably be a waiting list.

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ForTheLoveOfDogs

· #14 · Apr 10, 2019

dalans said:
The bernese seems to give the dog a more docile character than a standard poodle, and bernedoodles come out bigger, sturdier dogs than poodles too.

The thing is most people don't realize that their Doodle's temperament is actually FROM the Poodle side like 50+% of the time. Poodles are goofy, friendly, trainable and most are not over the top anything. They get a bad rap for being "snobby" dogs purely because of the hair cut in the show ring. They are far from it.

You can find a parti-colored Standard Poodle from an ethical breeder (they show them in UKC and do all the health testing), pay way less, give it a "doodle" hair cut, and you have a beautiful companion dog that looks and acts like a doodle. Most people will ask "is that a doodle?!" I will give you that Bernadoodles probably turn out bigger a lot.. but it is inconsistent. It depends on the dogs being used. Standard poodles come in all different sizes/substances among even reputable breeders. Poodles are not petite little frou frou dogs. They were originally bred to work.

I don't really care if people want to doodle responsibly anymore but I just don't understand it. I prefer to preserve breeds. If we don't have a Poodle, we don't have a doodle. It takes lifetimes to create a breed, and only one generation to create a "doodle". Reputable/preservation/responsible/hobby breeders are fighting for their right to even exist and need more people to support them more than ever. Meanwhile.. the large scale breeders just throw around what ever looks fun and people just keep buying them.

To answer OP's question. I get it. You want what you want because you like it. Yes, it is hard to find them from a "decent" breeder in a reasonable time frame because everyone wants one right now. Unless you go to an awful large scale breeder, or ship one in from the worst commercial breeder on the planet, you will have to wait awhile. You will have to wait a bit from any halfway decent breeder. Definitely look at the health testing that "should" be done on both Standard Poodles and Bernese Mountain Dogs. Just because it is mixed doesn't mean those issues suddenly go away, in fact you may get all the issues if the dice rolls the other way. Just like in people.. my parents aren't related but I still got lovely issues from them both. I also will only support small scale breeders and prefer they do socialization programs like puppy culture or avidog (showing they at least are striving for the best possible start).

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PatriciafromCO

· #15 · Apr 10, 2019

I don't know about what others have seen in BMD's (docile) is not a word I would use with the breed, they happy workers and serious workers and if you think your going to just walk onto their property or into their house uninvited.. Think you would be really surprised that they will be fierce. Breeder that I spend many of years with bringing her dogs to our training center. these dogs need structure, not going to get along with every dog and some of her dogs were a bit of a handful, for lunging after other dogs, and people during their growing phases. .

dalans

· #16 · Apr 10, 2019

ForTheLoveOfDogs said:
dalans said:

The bernese seems to give the dog a more docile character than a standard poodle, and bernedoodles come out bigger, sturdier dogs than poodles too.

Click to expand...

The thing is most people don't realize that their Doodle's temperament is actually FROM the Poodle side like 50+% of the time. Poodles are goofy, friendly, trainable and most are not over the top anything. They get a bad rap for being "snobby" dogs purely because of the hair cut in the show ring. They are far from it.

You can find a parti-colored Standard Poodle from an ethical breeder (they show them in UKC and do all the health testing), pay way less, give it a "doodle" hair cut, and you have a beautiful companion dog that looks and acts like a doodle. Most people will ask "is that a doodle?!" I will give you that Bernadoodles probably turn out bigger a lot.. but it is inconsistent. It depends on the dogs being used. Standard poodles come in all different sizes/substances among even reputable breeders. Poodles are not petite little frou frou dogs. They were originally bred to work.

I don't really care if people want to doodle responsibly anymore but I just don't understand it. I prefer to preserve breeds. If we don't have a Poodle, we don't have a doodle. It takes lifetimes to create a breed, and only one generation to create a "doodle". Reputable/preservation/responsible/hobby breeders are fighting for their right to even exist and need more people to support them more than ever. Meanwhile.. the large scale breeders just throw around what ever looks fun and people just keep buying them.

To answer OP's question. I get it. You want what you want because you like it. Yes, it is hard to find them from a "decent" breeder in a reasonable time frame because everyone wants one right now. Unless you go to an awful large scale breeder, or ship one in from the worst commercial breeder on the planet, you will have to wait awhile. You will have to wait a bit from any halfway decent breeder. Definitely look at the health testing that "should" be done on both Standard Poodles and Bernese Mountain Dogs. Just because it is mixed doesn't mean those issues suddenly go away, in fact you may get all the issues if the dice rolls the other way. Just like in people.. my parents aren't related but I still got lovely issues from them both. I also will only support small scale breeders and prefer they do socialization programs like puppy culture or avidog (showing they at least are striving for the best possible start).

Yep. Those are some good points. A relatively thick and husky parti poodle would be a pretty great dog too.

Canyx

· #17 · Apr 10, 2019

Speaking generally, I have seen doodles be more over the top and more reactive than their two parts separately. I have no idea why, and I'm definitely speaking anecdotally. But I have seen a LOT of doodles. Like it's hard to have a class WITHOUT a doodle in it.

I have seen a bernadoodle that was no larger than a standard poodle. Maybe wider, but certainly not a large dog. Just saying, genetics doesn't work mathematically. (I originally wrote I saw 3 bernadoodles but two were sheepadoodles when I remembered more clearly. Can't keep them straight :/ )

Buyers beware... They are also creating and selling mini ____doodles now. They breed miniature poodles to whatever other breeds. Hopefully the minipoo is the father and not the mother...

dalans

· #18 · Apr 10, 2019 (Edited)

while we are speaking anecdotally, I have noted that very small poodles tend to be quite reactive indeed. this might just be poor (or no) training however.
If the OP (or anyone else) does decide to go with a big poodle instead of a cross, the informal term for very big standards is a 'Royal Poodle'.

parus

· #19 · Apr 10, 2019

ForTheLoveOfDogs said:
The thing is most people don't realize that their Doodle's temperament is actually FROM the Poodle side like 50+% of the time. Poodles are goofy, friendly, trainable and most are not over the top anything. They get a bad rap for being "snobby" dogs purely because of the hair cut in the show ring. They are far from it.

You can find a parti-colored Standard Poodle from an ethical breeder (they show them in UKC and do all the health testing), pay way less, give it a "doodle" hair cut, and you have a beautiful companion dog that looks and acts like a doodle. Most people will ask "is that a doodle?!" I will give you that Bernadoodles probably turn out bigger a lot.. but it is inconsistent. It depends on the dogs being used. Standard poodles come in all different sizes/substances among even reputable breeders. Poodles are not petite little frou frou dogs. They were originally bred to work.

Yeah, I don't want to come off like I'm slagging on Berners, but I wouldn't necessarily describe them as more docile than standard poodles. More phlegmatic, sure. Poodles, particularly standards, trend more eager to please, as a breed trait. As far as size goes, my poodle's sire is a 75 lb (not fat) fella that's all legs. So he's actually bigger than some Bernese Mountain Dogs are. I'm not convinced bigger is better, anyway...larger, stockier dogs tend to be shorter lived and suffer more if they have orthopedic issues, arthritis, etc.

I'm finding that people often don't recognize poodles as poodles if they don't have their faces shaved.

So, I mean...you can get a nice well-bred standard poodle in pretty much any size and color you want, combined with a much longer average lifespan and lower likelihood of serious health problems, with a coat that's ACTUALLY non-shedding...all at a lower cost than you'd pay for a doodle. Poodles need to work on their PR, I think.

As a side note, IMO the AKC should really allow parti poodles. I don't see any good reason not to, other than just general conservativism, now that they can easily genetically confirm that the coloring is a mutation and not the result of mixing. They already allow poodles of pretty much any color and size so it's not like poodles have a super standardized appearance to start with, unlike some other breeds where all the animals look like little clones.

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Francl27

· #20 · Apr 10, 2019

parus said:
Yeah, I don't want to come off like I'm slagging on Berners, but I wouldn't necessarily describe them as more docile than standard poodles. More phlegmatic, sure. Poodles, particularly standards, trend more eager to please, as a breed trait. As far as size goes, my poodle's sire is a 75 lb (not fat) fella that's all legs. So he's actually bigger than some Bernese Mountain Dogs are. I'm not convinced bigger is better, anyway...larger, stockier dogs tend to be shorter lived and suffer more if they have orthopedic issues, arthritis, etc.

I'm finding that people often don't recognize poodles as poodles if they don't have their faces shaved.

So, I mean...you can get a nice well-bred standard poodle in pretty much any size and color you want, combined with a much longer average lifespan and lower likelihood of serious health problems, with a coat that's ACTUALLY non-shedding...all at a lower cost than you'd pay for a doodle. Poodles need to work on their PR, I think.

As a side note, IMO the AKC should really allow parti poodles. I don't see any good reason not to, other than just general conservativism, now that they can easily genetically confirm that the coloring is a mutation and not the result of mixing. They already allow poodles of pretty much any color and size so it's not like poodles have a super standardized appearance to start with, unlike some other breeds where all the animals look like little clones.

The problem is that it has to breed true to be recognized as a breed though.

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