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My mother got a puppy a little while back, a purebred Lab (chocolate in colour). I'm very aware of BYBers breeding labs, aiming for chocolates, because they're so popular.. and I warned her about this. I wasn't with her when she got the dog, so I cant speak to what kind of place she got it from. I just met her for the first time since she was a wee little puppy.. looking at her.. something doesn't seem right. She doesn't look totally like a lab.. I think she may not be pure, or perhaps just not to breed standard?

Her head shape looks wrong, her face and snout is very narrow and long, and her brow isn't very defined and her snout doesn't have as much of a gentle upward turn that I would expect in a lab. She looks almost houndish. It should almost be mention that on her feet and legs she has lighter brown fur 'splattered'.. almost like brindling. The breeder told my mom this was a normal occurrence in labs.. perhaps so, but thats news to me. Is she impure? Poorly bred? Or just young and hasn't developed yet?

I think she's 4 months old right now.. ill double check that.

june 032.jpg june 031.jpg june 030.jpg june 029.jpg june 028.jpg
 

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She looks a lot like a poorly bred lab. I saw someone with a "silver" lab today and it looked so screwed up. Our new lab girl was from a BYB and she has a totally different face than our male who came from a rep.breeder.
 

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If she's a purebred, and I kind of doubt it, it's very poorly bred. I hope she'll love her anyhow :)

I was trying to find a side shot of Remy's head. This is one of the only shots in my photobucket. This is a good example of a nice lab head.
 

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Discussion Starter #5 (Edited)
*points to lab moms pic* YES! thats exactly what i was trying to describe, the defined brow and lightly upward turn of the nose.

Does that lighter smattering of brown on her legs happen in labs? I once saw a Dalmatian with brown spots, so I wouldn't be surprised if it did, but I've never seen it.
 

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heres another picture of him. He's a good example of a bred to standard lab. He was about 1 yr old in these pictures.


I hope she wont be too dissapointed. And I hope she didnt pay much!

*points to lab moms pic* YES! thats exactly what i was trying to describe, the defined brow and lightly upward turn of the nose.

Does that lighter smattering of brown on her legs happen in labs? I once saw a Dalmatian with brown spots, so I wouldn't be surprised if it did, but I've never seen it.
I've never seen it and I've seen a LOT of labs, so if it does happen in purebreds, it's not common.
 

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She looks impure to me. Her snout is too long and her head is too narrow.

Honestly, I'd hope for an impurity over breeding so poor that it produced a Lab that looks very little like a Lab. Were the puppies and parents tested for hip dysplasia or other medical concerns?
 

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I would say she's purebred, just badly bred with more field type dogs in her background. She looks very much like a lot of field type/pet bred labradors. Lots of field bred labs have a "houndy" look to their faces. They also tend to be thinner and leggier and often are higher drive (i.e. totally crazy) than bench bred dogs but obviously that varies from individual to individual. Remy looks more like a bench bred dog which is what a lab bred to the standard should be. Field bred dogs are often called "American" labs while bench bred dogs are called "English" labs but these terms are not really correct.

Here's a fairly decent summary that I just quickly found on google: http://www.woodhavenlabs.com/english-american.html
 

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Discussion Starter #10 (Edited)
She paid $900 for her, which is an average price. (which you may final appalling, if you live in the states. I've found dogs were much cheaper in the USA than on Vancouver Island)

Regardless of her breed, shes a healthy dog, so shes just as good as any dog to us. She wont be loved any different.. particularly because we wont be mentioning our suspicions.

Thanks for all your input, everyone :)


I would guess she's purebred, just badly bred with more field type dogs in her background. Lots of field bred labs have a "houndy" look to their faces. They also tend to be thinner and leggier and often are higher drive (i.e. totally crazy) than bench bred dogs but obviously that varies from individual to individual. Remy looks more like a bench bred dog which is what a lab bred to the standard should be. Field bred dogs are often called "American" labs while bench bred dogs are called "English" labs but these terms are not really correct.

Here's a fairly decent summary that I just quickly found on google: http://www.woodhavenlabs.com/english-american.html
Ah yes, i'm familiar with 'English' and 'American' labs, which was a consideration .. perhaps the breeder didn't mind mixing the two sorts. Im not sure which type Dega was sold as.. and I doubt my mother had the sense to ask.



Honestly, I'd hope for an impurity over breeding so poor that it produced a Lab that looks very little like a Lab. Were the puppies and parents tested for hip dysplasia or other medical concerns?
Agreed entirely! I hope DJEtzel is right about the Plott Hound/Lab mix thought, a mutt (I say that endearingly) would be preferable to a poorly bred dog
 

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I can't see anything in the pics you posted but if they have like freckles then I would really wonder about her being a purebred. Here is one of our guy

Not that great of a shot but you can see that his face isn't long like hers. I am trying to find a pic of our girl though that he were suppose to foster but decided to keep. Her face is really long and her ears aren't correct. She looks like a black dalmation in ways.
 

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She paid $900 for her, which is an average price. (which you may final appalling, if you live in the states. I've found dogs were much cheaper in the USA than on Vancouver Island)

Regardless of her breed, shes a healthy dog, so shes just as good as any dog to us. She wont be loved any different.. particularly because we wont be mentioning our suspicions.

Thanks for all your input, everyone :)
If you know, can you PM me the breeder's name? I know of a few breeders on Vancouver Island and also know a few people who would likely know the breeder if I didn't.
 

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Perhaps I don't know a lot about labs. For those who do... IS it typical/possible for them to come with brindling on their legs?
Yup its a mismark but totally possible although not that common. The thing is though, it could just be shades of chocolate on the legs and not true brindling. I know there's an article somewhere about mismarks in labs, I'll go see if I can find it.

Edit: Not the one I was looking for but again seems decent. From the same site as before: http://www.woodhavenlabs.com/mismarks.html
 

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Perhaps I don't know a lot about labs. For those who do... IS it typical/possible for them to come with brindling on their legs?
It's definitely not typical and certainly would not be an okay thing for a lab to have. I've never seen it or heard of it. Possible? I dont know? I guess anythings possible.

Yup its a mismark but totally possible although not that common. The thing is though, it could just be shades of chocolate on the legs and not true brindling. I know there's an article somewhere about mismarks in labs, I'll go see if I can find it.

Edit: Not the one I was looking for but again seems decent. From the same site as before: http://www.woodhavenlabs.com/mismarks.html
Wow! they dont do that on purpose, do they?
 

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Discussion Starter #16
If you know, can you PM me the breeder's name? I know of a few breeders on Vancouver Island and also know a few people who would likely know the breeder if I didn't.
I called my sister and asked her (my mothers visiting her at the moment). My mother has a friend who connected her with a person in Vancouver who breeds 'chocolate labs'. That person came over from Vancouver onto the island and sold her the dog. Paid cash, no papers for the dog, mom never saw the parents, no warranties or contracts.. basically sounds like BYB or puppy mill, sadly. No kennel name, or even first name.. so i'm afraid I have no contact for you, Deeken, but it sounds like this is the kind of breeder that would raise red flags for anyone with any remote understanding of the dog breeding world.

My sister is going to send me a close up photo the marks on her legs, ill post it when I get it.
 

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Her face/eyes look like a Flat-Coated retriever. Her ears are big, like a Weim. Are her eyes light-colored? It's hard to see her eyes in the pics. That would also be an indication of some Weimaraner in her history somewhere. But I've seen field-bred Labs that look like just about any other breed. If a dog is good at hunting they don't care what it looks like. So Labs from non-show lines are pretty unpredictable in looks.
 

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Wow! they dont do that on purpose, do they?
Reputable breeders don't and I haven't heard of anyone purposefully breeding mismarks. However, as far as I know, the genetics of it aren't currently understood so they do pop up in litters unknowingly. I have seen papered, purebred labs from both reputable and irreputable (though I guess the purebred here could be called into question) with brindling on their legs though so I'm guessing its one of the more common mismarks.
 

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Paid cash, no papers for the dog, mom never saw the parents, no warranties or contracts.. basically sounds like BYB or puppy mill, sadly. No kennel name, or even first name
I hope she's now receiving complete vaccinations and has had a health check up. I'm sure that dog did not receive any shots prior to your mother getting her.

She definitely came from some shady backyard operation. Labs are popular so are easy to sell to people. As puppies the average person won't see it is a mutt. Payment in cash at an undisclosed location, no paperwork, no traceability. If people would do just a little research before buying dogs these kinds of places wouldn't exist...
 

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Reputable breeders don't and I haven't heard of anyone purposefully breeding mismarks. However, as far as I know, the genetics of it aren't currently understood so they do pop up in litters unknowingly. I have seen papered, purebred labs from both reputable and irreputable (though I guess the purebred here could be called into question) with brindling on their legs though so I'm guessing its one of the more common mismarks.
Interesting. I'd be curious to see that.
 
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