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I think he's having seizures!

2988 Views 14 Replies 8 Participants Last post by  hugo, 
E
After my first Pom puppy passed away two weeks after I got him, due to a portosystemic shunt, I went the extra mile to find a good, reputable pom breeder and ended up getting quite a small little fellow. The breeder told me that he was the smallest in his litter, probably only going to be three pounds when he's fully grown, and that in and of itself is a big concern for me.

Once already I've had to deal with low blood sugar in this puppy, and after that I was extremely, extremely careful. I've only had him for three days, and tonight he just suffered from a very strange attack.

I've been keeping honey -as suggested by the breeder, because it causes less diarrhea- in him at least three to four times a day and I've been leaving dry food out for him as well as the option to eat canned food every hour. I have also been giving him 1cc of Nutrical about three to four times a day, with the honey. Today he's been pretty tired... playing very little. We're taking him to the vet's probably tomorrow and I'll be calling the breeder tomorrow morning (it's a little too late to call right now...), depending on if they have a time slot to take us, but I thought it might be noteworthy to get some of your opinions... especially from experienced toy breed caregivers.

Anyway, just tonight he was sleeping on my lap for about an hour, and I decided to put him in his crate. Before I did that, I laid him on my lap and squirted 1cc of honey in his mouth... before I gave him the honey, he was walking around fine, but after I laid him on his back so that I could get it in him easier his limbs started to shake a little. And then he twisted into an odd position, with the side of his head laid flat on the ground and his belly in the air, crying and crying... I was petrified and laid him down on the floor, with him still crying, when suddenly he gave a sort of sighing whine and his entire body went limp and his bladder let loose right on the ground. He did that last night as well, but I thought it was because of low blood sugar... hypoglycemia. But during the second time he seemed fine one second and then terrible the next, and then after I got ANOTHER cc of honey in him he straightened up.

I'm getting very frustrated, and after the terrible trouble we've had with my last puppy who ended up dying of a congenital defect, I think I'll just give up altogether if I've ended up getting another puppy with some sort of defect... because I can't handle the stress of one sick puppy and then another, even though I love them dearly and would do anything for them.

So anyway, is this a seizure?? I'm terrified that he may be having seizures and just might have to live with that forever, and my father -who usually pays the vet bills because I am still trying to find a job- can't handle buying medication all the time for another sick puppy. I really would not prefer taking him back to the breeder... If this is seizures, will he... grow out of them? Or are they common in such tiny dogs?

Thanks!!
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W
Low blood sugar causes seizures, if it gets low enough. Having experience with ferrets, I unfortunately know too much about that. Hopefully that's what it is, and not a seizure disorder such as epilepsy.

Although, it's still very concerning. You'd think that eating once every hour would keep his blood sugar steady. I'd definitely want to see what the vet says.

Now, with ferrets who have trouble with low blood sugar, giving them honey or Nutrical is not recommended except to bring them out of a hypoglycemic episode. Giving sugar regularly makes the blood sugar spike, then crash. Keeping a high-protein food available at all times, plus offering soft food often, is the normal way of dealing with it, because this keeps their glucose levels steadier.

What was the breeder doing for him? I doubt she was giving him honey all the time or feeding him every hour.....maybe, but it seems unlikely. Ask the breeder for her schedule, then try to follow the same routine. It might be the extra stress from going to a new home that's making him worse.

I hope you can get this figured out! Poor little guy :( .
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Pai
Oh god, Eyssa, how scary to hear your new guy is being worrisome too! =(
I know with the super tiny pups, there is extra worry until they get bigger. How old is your pup?
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E
Update:
-Kodiak is doing much better today... in fact, right now he's trying to tear a hole in our carpet. Yesterday he just lazed around a lot and so far there have been no "episodes"; of course, the day still isn't over yet, so with any luck he'll be alright till morning. Anyway, I called the vet's and told them about his "seizures" or whatever they were and they apparently weren't too terribly concerned about it because they scheduled me in for next Thursday. And as far as the breeder goes, she told me to continue giving him honey (hmm...) three to four times a day, but I'm concerned -as you said, Willowy- that it's been making his blood sugar spike and crash and perhaps that was the cause of the problems.

And darn... I forgot to ask the breeder for her routine. Well, guess I'll have to do that tomorrow. :-/

But yes, it seems to be bad luck for me! And to answer your question, Pai, he is 10, going on 11 weeks old... so he's pretty young. He eats really good, but he seems to be very, very choosy about what foods we give him. When I first got him, I fed him Ceasar's puppy food... he started to stick his nose up at that on the third day and we switched him to Pedigree puppy food mixed with cottage cheese (suggested by the breeder... and I know, they're really crappy brands, but it's all we have). Now he's starting to take a preference to baby food because he doesn't seem to have quite that same zest for the other types. So, I'm not sure what to feed him after he gets sick of this...

But anyway, I really do hope that he doesn't have any more attacks. That was quite frightening!
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H
I know nothing about small dogs, only canine epilepsy.

That does sound like a seizure and he had two? So perhaps a cluster seizure.

Have you taken him to the vet for this? There's nothing really they can "test" for after the fact, but you could get some bloodwork done and get him looked at ..also, you could get his blood sugar checked because that can cause seizures.

I hope he's ok!
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E
No, we haven't taken him to the vet's yet. The earliest they could schedule us (and we did tell them about the seizure problem) was next Thursday, and I did notify the breeder about it... so unfortunately it'll have to wait a week, but right now I'm trying to keep food in him by offering food at least once an hour/two hours.

I was really hoping that it wasn't a seizure of any sort... but ugh. Looks like it is.
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Pai
Hopefully they're tied to low blood sugar, which should be something he will grow out of. =/
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E
I have a strong belief that it was indeed low blood sugar that did that to him. He hadn't eaten for about three or four hours and didn't show any interest in food (he's getting quite finicky, as I'm finding out)... so maybe not having any food in him for screwed up his levels. I did give him Nutrical in that time, but I guess it didn't help.

And it's now 12:13pm and so far I've seen no sign of seizures. Right now the little bugger is chewing on a bone and won't leave it alone long enough to eat again, haha.
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Pai
It's one of the reasons I didn't choose a Chihuahua (though I like them a lot) because I am such a worrywart I don't know what I'd do if there was a constant risk of low blood sugar. I'd never get any sleep from hovering over them 24/7!

I wish you the best, be sure to share pictures of your little guy eventually. ;)
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K
So glad to hear that things seem to be settling and hope they continue to do so. I definitely think a vet visit and proper medical advice are the things you should be seeking and pronto. With the extraordinarily small dogs that are part of our world these days it seems so much can go so wrong and in a hurry.

I've not had much experience with hypoglycemia in my crew..thank heavens..although I do have a couple of small breed dogs. Still..I like to be prepared for the "what if's" and believe that forewarned is forearmed!

One of my dog mentor friend's who is experienced in "size small" had advised me to keep honey on hand just in case. As far as I understood..it wasn't something to be administered regularly..only as an emergency fix in case they were displaying symptoms of low blood sugar.

Remembering too..a friend who had a healthy but diabetic dog always sat very well for her insulin needles. One evening she wouldn't come for her shot and was very determined to NOT. A subsequent blood test showed that indeed it would have harmed her.

I wouldn't be doing much of anything without the advice of a trusted vet. Best wishes to you and yours.
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Eyssa said:
After my first Pom puppy passed away two weeks after I got him, due to a portosystemic shunt, I went the extra mile to find a good, reputable pom breeder and ended up getting quite a small little fellow. The breeder told me that he was the smallest in his litter, probably only going to be three pounds when he's fully grown, and that in and of itself is a big concern for me.

Once already I've had to deal with low blood sugar in this puppy, and after that I was extremely, extremely careful. I've only had him for three days, and tonight he just suffered from a very strange attack.

I've been keeping honey -as suggested by the breeder, because it causes less diarrhea- in him at least three to four times a day and I've been leaving dry food out for him as well as the option to eat canned food every hour. I have also been giving him 1cc of Nutrical about three to four times a day, with the honey. Today he's been pretty tired... playing very little. We're taking him to the vet's probably tomorrow and I'll be calling the breeder tomorrow morning (it's a little too late to call right now...), depending on if they have a time slot to take us, but I thought it might be noteworthy to get some of your opinions... especially from experienced toy breed caregivers.

Anyway, just tonight he was sleeping on my lap for about an hour, and I decided to put him in his crate. Before I did that, I laid him on my lap and squirted 1cc of honey in his mouth... before I gave him the honey, he was walking around fine, but after I laid him on his back so that I could get it in him easier his limbs started to shake a little. And then he twisted into an odd position, with the side of his head laid flat on the ground and his belly in the air, crying and crying... I was petrified and laid him down on the floor, with him still crying, when suddenly he gave a sort of sighing whine and his entire body went limp and his bladder let loose right on the ground. He did that last night as well, but I thought it was because of low blood sugar... hypoglycemia. But during the second time he seemed fine one second and then terrible the next, and then after I got ANOTHER cc of honey in him he straightened up.

I'm getting very frustrated, and after the terrible trouble we've had with my last puppy who ended up dying of a congenital defect, I think I'll just give up altogether if I've ended up getting another puppy with some sort of defect... because I can't handle the stress of one sick puppy and then another, even though I love them dearly and would do anything for them.

So anyway, is this a seizure?? I'm terrified that he may be having seizures and just might have to live with that forever, and my father -who usually pays the vet bills because I am still trying to find a job- can't handle buying medication all the time for another sick puppy. I really would not prefer taking him back to the breeder... If this is seizures, will he... grow out of them? Or are they common in such tiny dogs?

Thanks!!
Click to expand...
Hi, sorry to hear about your puppy (s) situation. PLEASE NOTE: THIS IS NOT A DIAGNOSIS FOR YOUR PUPPY, SEEK VETS ADVICE FOR YOUR PUPPY. I have a Toy Poddle who is 17 weeks now, but around 2 weeks ago my pup had his first seizure which i thought at first he was choking. Anyway, the second seizure was quite bad and very frightening and during that seizure i drove the my vets (under 3 mins without my shoes!) and just before i got into the vets he had stopped. They took him strait away and told me that he could have a series of blood test done....and she also said that he could have had the 2 and never have them again. So I went away and told myself if he has another then I will bring him back for tests, well, he did, he had another 4 (in which i called the out of hours vets and they told me to hold on until the morning and take him strait back to my regular vets. I did at 8.30am, they gave him a blood test, and it came back saying his 'bile acid was high in his liver', so...they recommended I have a blood test done for his liver....i did and it came back 'inconclusive' which i was not happy about. So....I did a lot of research on the internet, and what i found was this........If he was born with this condition, this would have happened sooner and not at 15 weeks. Epilepsy, they say (even my vets) he is too young to start having them.....so this left me with the conclusion its either his SUGAR LEVELS DROPPED (and my pup was not eating very much from what i can remember before he had the seizures) OR It was some sort of TOXIN POISIONING, depending on the poisioning, they can recover but its worth looking around your home (and looking up on the Internet what causes seizures with Toxins) to see if there could be something there that may have been the cause in your home. For instance....I have diamond leaded windows and my living room door opens inwards exposing the lead....I had this open with a peice of wood to stop him going outside....this could be one of the causes, he would have been clawing at it then licking his feet or licking the window, I bleached my floors and with pine disinfectent....this too could cause fits if the pup is licking buiscuts of the floor......a pencil, they could chew that, another cause is some plants...and because the pup is sooooo small, just a tiny bit of exposure can cause cluster seizures but unfortunately...you have to be able to pin point what he may of had so the vets can test the blood specifically for that...which is a pain because it can be so many thing in the home......WELL.....I decided to change my puppy's diet........I had him on IAMS dry food, he was fussy too, i tried him on ceasar and pedigree soft puppy food, he did not like that either but now....i give him fresh chicken...pre cooked and wrapped from the supper market and a little bread so he gets his protien and starch......my puppy had 4 seizures a day over 4 days, soon as i changed his diet (oh....and lots of water and the odd bit of honey2-3 times a day in the case it had something to do with his sugar levels) and he stopped having seizures for 2 weeks, unfortunatley he had one this evening at 7.30, but i became a little slack as i have 5 cats and 3 dogs in total and he had been at the other animals foods for a couple of days, and plus today i notice he was not eating very much for more than 5 hours. Ive put him back on the stricked chicken (not skin), bread, water, and little honey.....and we will see how that goes. I'll let you all know how he goes for now, but its worth spending a little extra on his food rather than £100's or THOUSANDS on vet fees! Try it....you cant do any harm by giving him fresh chicken in his diet! xxxxx :)
PLEASE NOTE: THIS IS NOT A DIAGNOSIS FOR YOUR PUPPY, SEEK VETS ADVICE FOR YOUR PUPPY.
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E
Hey everyone, sorry for the late update!

Little, as the puppy has now been renamed, was taken to the vets immediately after the seizure situation. But now, hes big enough that he shouldn't go through that again. In fact, it's been a couple months since he's gone into sugar shock the last time. At that time, he weighed only one pound (which is below the safety limit). Now, he weighs between two to three pounds... in fact, in order to make crate training easier, I've quit feeding the little guy at night and everything is perfectly fine. :) Thanks for all your input and suggestions!!!
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hugo said:
Hi, sorry to hear about your puppy (s) situation. PLEASE NOTE: THIS IS NOT A DIAGNOSIS FOR YOUR PUPPY, SEEK VETS ADVICE FOR YOUR PUPPY. I have a Toy Poddle who is 17 weeks now, but around 2 weeks ago my pup had his first seizure which i thought at first he was choking. Anyway, the second seizure was quite bad and very frightening and during that seizure i drove the my vets (under 3 mins without my shoes!) and just before i got into the vets he had stopped. They took him strait away and told me that he could have a series of blood test done....and she also said that he could have had the 2 and never have them again. So I went away and told myself if he has another then I will bring him back for tests, well, he did, he had another 4 (in which i called the out of hours vets and they told me to hold on until the morning and take him strait back to my regular vets. I did at 8.30am, they gave him a blood test, and it came back saying his 'bile acid was high in his liver', so...they recommended I have a blood test done for his liver....i did and it came back 'inconclusive' which i was not happy about. So....I did a lot of research on the internet, and what i found was this........If he was born with this condition, this would have happened sooner and not at 15 weeks. Epilepsy, they say (even my vets) he is too young to start having them.....so this left me with the conclusion its either his SUGAR LEVELS DROPPED (and my pup was not eating very much from what i can remember before he had the seizures) OR It was some sort of TOXIN POISIONING, depending on the poisioning, they can recover but its worth looking around your home (and looking up on the Internet what causes seizures with Toxins) to see if there could be something there that may have been the cause in your home. For instance....I have diamond leaded windows and my living room door opens inwards exposing the lead....I had this open with a peice of wood to stop him going outside....this could be one of the causes, he would have been clawing at it then licking his feet or licking the window, I bleached my floors and with pine disinfectent....this too could cause fits if the pup is licking buiscuts of the floor......a pencil, they could chew that, another cause is some plants...and because the pup is sooooo small, just a tiny bit of exposure can cause cluster seizures but unfortunately...you have to be able to pin point what he may of had so the vets can test the blood specifically for that...which is a pain because it can be so many thing in the home......WELL.....I decided to change my puppy's diet........I had him on IAMS dry food, he was fussy too, i tried him on ceasar and pedigree soft puppy food, he did not like that either but now....i give him fresh chicken...pre cooked and wrapped from the supper market and a little bread so he gets his protien and starch......my puppy had 4 seizures a day over 4 days, soon as i changed his diet (oh....and lots of water and the odd bit of honey2-3 times a day in the case it had something to do with his sugar levels) and he stopped having seizures for 2 weeks, unfortunatley he had one this evening at 7.30, but i became a little slack as i have 5 cats and 3 dogs in total and he had been at the other animals foods for a couple of days, and plus today i notice he was not eating very much for more than 5 hours. Ive put him back on the stricked chicken (not skin), bread, water, and little honey.....and we will see how that goes. I'll let you all know how he goes for now, but its worth spending a little extra on his food rather than £100's or THOUSANDS on vet fees! Try it....you cant do any harm by giving him fresh chicken in his diet! xxxxx :)
PLEASE NOTE: THIS IS NOT A DIAGNOSIS FOR YOUR PUPPY, SEEK VETS ADVICE FOR YOUR PUPPY.
Click to expand...

Thank you for your detailed post. I've been doing research on what to do with seizures and I came upon this forum. What ended up happening to your dog? With him back on natural food, did his seizures return?

PS: OP, I'm very glad your pup is doing well.
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Glad to hear your baby is doing better. Little is a cute name, btw!
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SJTrance said:
Thank you for your detailed post. I've been doing research on what to do with seizures and I came upon this forum. What ended up happening to your dog? With him back on natural food, did his seizures return?

PS: OP, I'm very glad your pup is doing well.
Click to expand...
(yes, seizures returned whilst back on normal puppy food and without honey)


Hi, Unfortunately, my puppy had another 8 seizures..1st one = 7.30pm....then...6.30am....6.10pm...6.45am....9.50am....2.10pm...2am....9am....4am. He was exhusted and just was not him self obviously. But starting his stricked intake of food again AND giving him honey every 2-3 hours.....again, the seizures have stopped....(PLEASE NOTE HE IS UNDER VETINARY CARE AND THAT HE WILL BE UNDERGOING MORE TESTS AND I WILL LET YOU KNOW), His last seizure was 4am Monday morning, Its now Wednesday morning 11.55am. The sad thing is......there are so many reasons for puppy seizures and I have discovered that even BLOOD TESTS have come back inconclusive. My vets said he is 2 young to be going on medications at this stage as this could cause more damage, hence why i have had to do my own research and help the little one the best I can. Its so frustrating when the vets cant give a diagnosis and its heart breaking because at the back of my mind is the inevitable.......I dont want to prelong his suffering. I'm not at this stage happy with my vets that i am with and i am in the process of changing. They dont seem to care about animals only money. I really cant say whats going to happen with him.....If he has another cluster of seizures that takes it out of him, i'm sadly facing the unwanted inevitable. I will though keep you informed. x
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