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Discussion Starter #1
at least, i guess that's what you'd call it....we had just done some work on agility last Wed and were cleaning up when this gal came into the club to use the building for floor work w/ her Golden.....she wanted "distractions" so she brought the dog in while we were still putting equipment away and started on some retrieve over the jump.....she tosses the dumbbell (which goes waaaayyyy off to the right) and tells the dog to jump...dog just sits there...tells it again, dog just sits there...finally, after a couple more "sends" the dog moves a couple steps then sits back down at her side...after a couple times of this, she takes the dog by the sides of the neck and "smacks" it against her leg 3-4 times, saying "jump, jump, jump" and sends it again....dog does the same thing, so she repeats the "procedure"....this goes like this for about 3 more times and still the dog won't budge, so she changes "tactics" and pinches the dogs ear (saying "jump") so i can hear it whine about 20' away....

what gives w/ the "method"? has anyone ever heard of it working?

the dog did finally go over, got the dumbbell and was going to just come directly back to her (not over the jump) and she stops it, tells it to "back up" and, when the dog just stands there looking confused, she goes up, "steps" on the toes to back it a bit, and then goes back to where she was standing and proceeds to keep trying to get it over the jump again.....

i don't think i have ever witnessed such strange methods in my life....
 

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That doesn't sound like training to me, sounds more like abuse. Makes me think about the trainer who kneed the Golden showdog in the Westminster dog show this year. The poor dog didn't place himself just right and up came the "trainer's" knee right into the dogs chest. Not something show judges want to see.
 

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Definitely not a "training method" I'd want to use. :mad: Poor pup. :(
 

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Come on she had an audience, couple that with the old saying a little knowledge is a dangerous thing. There are people all over the world that do silly and stupid stuff if they know they have an audience. The woman might not have thought you had enough experience to even doubt her expertise with a dog.

The thing to understand is just because somebody has a dog it does not necessarily mean they have training know how. From your explanation I have no idea what the lady wanted and evidently the dog didn't either.
 

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Reminds me of this old school video I saw once of an old school method (which unfortunately is still used today) where to teach a dog to take an object for retrieve they put a prong collar on the dog and put an ear under the prong collar. They offer the dog the object and without even giving it a chance they pull REALLY hard on the leash, then when the dog opens it's mouth to cry in pain they shove the toy in it's mouth and release the pressure :confused: Though I don't condone this in the LEAST, I can see the logic (as flawed as it may be) in how it gets the dog to open it's mouth to take the toy and everything... for the life of me I can't see how hitting a dog is going to make it go over a jump at all...
 

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Discussion Starter #6
i don't know, but she sure had me baffled...and also another gal that was w/ me that is just starting training herself w/ her Cav
 

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From your description, it doesn't sound like she was having much success with that "method". Probably just needed to hit the dog harder.

Method:
1) Tell dog what to do.
2) When dog doesn't understand what you want, hit dog.
3) Repeat as often as necessary until dog complies.

What could go wrong?
 

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MM, lol!

There is such a thing as a "forced retrieve." It is usually accomplished with an ear pinch, but I guess people use e-collars and toe hitches, too. The deal is to cause the dog a minimal amount of physical pain when it is NOT holding an object in its mouth. As soon as the object is in the dog's mouth, the pain ends, thus associating the object-in-mouth with a lack of unpleasant sensation.

I Googled it and came up with this guy right away. The second page really starts to describe his methodology.

My thoughts on force breaking aside, it doesn't really sound like the woman was doing even that technique successfully.
 

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I am acquainted with force breaking, but don't feel like getting into a 14 page argument about it. It has its place, and there are better and worse methods.
 

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Yeah, at least the ear pinch method FillebBelle describe shows the dog what to do to get end the unpleasantness.

What that lady was doing was punishing the dog for being ignorant of her badly explained wants.

Even I know that's a bad idea. :p
 

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FilleBelle what is a toe hitch? I have never heard of that.

All to often dogs are expected to be smarter then their handlers. All too often, they are, smarter too. Sad to hear such a story again. I am certain I have confused the heck out of my dogs on occasion but for the most part, I try really hard to make training, fun and easy to understand. Hopefully, this gal will learn to do that same.
 
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