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My friends ticked me off today. These are nice, hardworking people who are honest and loyal, but I swear have only half a brain. We were sitting around talking about the weather. I mentioned that when I retired I'm moving to someplace dry where I don't have to worry about all the allergens in the air. Another one of them stated that he was never going to be able to retire and neither would his kids. I said that I planned on retiring when I hit 60 if not sooner. Another friend chipped in and said there was no way I'd be able to do that because Obama wouldn't let me. I pointed out (I'm 28) that Obama not going to be in power in 20-30 years when I retire. He said it didn't matter. Then the other one proceeded to tell me that I wouldn't be able to retire because there's no way I'd be able to afford it. He said in order to retire I'd have to earn a lot of money and I definitely did not want to do that. The more money I earn the more Uncle Sam takes of it so if I was smart I would try not to earn very much money. Of course not earning very much money means it's extremely difficult to save for retirement which is why they said they'd never be able to retire.

The whole thing ticked me off. Why would anyone in their right mind purposely avoid a high income? Are my friends really dumb enough to think that Obama can stop them from doing what they want to do with their lives 30 years down the road? Should I look around for better friends?
 

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If you aren't rich now, you aren't going to be rich when you retire and your income is decimated, first of all.

Second of all, a real swell retirement in Boca or Palm Springs is a fairy tale for most people. If you can't afford to live in Palm Springs now, what makes anyone think they would be able to retire there later?

Also, Obama has got absolutely nothing to do with it, but the last 30 years of trickle down theory and voodoo economics did absolutely nothing for regular people.

Your hedge fund manager will be able to retire in style though, if he avoids going to jail in the near or distant future!!!

Good Luck and don't worry about retirement, hope that you stay healthy and have a job!!!

:D:eek:
 

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I don't know how old your are, Hulkamaniac. But if you want to retire comfortably while you're young-enough to enjoy it, start socking away money now.

It's not an impossible dream because of the power of compound interest. The key is to start young and make it a habit.

If you wait 'til you're fifty then it's a whole lot harder.

I hope your friends are fun 'cause they're not getting by on intellect.

Oops, I see you're 28. That's a perfect time to start.
 

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This is one of the nice things about my job...the pension plan. Public Employees Retirement. They take money out of my paycheck each pay period and I don't have to think about it. I'll never get to retire in style though...lol but its nice that I have that at an early age...most people my age aren't thinking of retirement.
 

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I think you do need to get new friends. LOL

A lot of people who are "against" Obama are stuck on this idea that the country is headed toward a state of Communism, basically. Read about Ayn Rand's book, "Atlas Shrugged" and John Galt and you'll understand more where your friends are coming from.

I don't agree with this philosophy, but I have had many discussions with people who do. :)
 

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Discussion Starter #7
If you aren't rich now, you aren't going to be rich when you retire and your income is decimated, first of all.

Second of all, a real swell retirement in Boca or Palm Springs is a fairy tale for most people. If you can't afford to live in Palm Springs now, what makes anyone think they would be able to retire there later?

Also, Obama has got absolutely nothing to do with it, but the last 30 years of trickle down theory and voodoo economics did absolutely nothing for regular people.

Your hedge fund manager will be able to retire in style though, if he avoids going to jail in the near or distant future!!!

Good Luck and don't worry about retirement, hope that you stay healthy and have a job!!!

:D:eek:
I don't agree with that. The market has averaged 10% a year over the past hundred and some odd years. (Some years it's down 30, other years it's up 40, but it's averaged 10.) It's a fact that if you put just $100 a month at 10% interest over a 40 year period (say from 20 to 60 or even 30 to 70) you wind up with over a million dollars. That million dollars will generate $100k a year just in interest which I think would be enough even with inflation to keep the average person off the streets and not eating dog food. That's just $100 a month which I think most people can afford if we stop and take a look at all the crap we spend money on that we don't need (and I'm as guilty as anyone).

I guess what ticks me off the most is not that they aspire to be poor or even that they have gone to the trouble to put together a plan to be poor, but that they think I should share their aspirations of poverty as well. I don't get that. I tried to explain to them that I'd rather have half of $100k a year than have all of $20k, but they looked at me like I was crazy for even thinking of giving half of my income to Uncle Sam. *Le sigh*
 

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Um, why would anyone aspire to be poor? I've heard of low aspirations, but WOW. Yes, if you make more money the gov't is going to take more out of your paycheck, but really, why would anyone intentionally aspire to make as little money as possible?
Time for new friends.
 

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Try buying a home, raising a couple of kids, paying for their education, braces, medical care and going on vacation. Do the math. You can't possibly save enough money to become a millionaire and that's exactly what it takes in real principal, more than a million, (do the math), to be able to retire and have enough income to live off of it, and say you live to be 95, which is entirely possible, at this point.

My point is, that you can't live a life and save hardly enough to retire on, in real money, if you are a middle class, working stiff, even if you make $100,000.00 a year, that's not a lot of money here and now, and loads of folks don't make that much, or even close. If something devastating happens, like an illness like cancer or some such, forget ever getting out of a hole.

There is a big gap between the rich and middle class and that's what's causing a lot of the economic woes to begin with.

When wealth gets concentrated at the top 1% of people, what is going on now, is exactly what happens to the economy, in general.

Let's hope things get better for everyone before they get lots worse.;)

P.S. 10% interest is a fairy-tale, see how much you make at 2 to 3% which is what you can really earn, in an honest, non-Madoff way.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Try buying a home, raising a couple of kids, paying for their education, braces, medical care and going on vacation. Do the math. You can't possibly save enough money to become a millionaire and that's exactly what it takes in real principal, more than a million, (do the math), to be able to retire and have enough income to live off of it, and say you live to be 95, which is entirely possible, at this point.

My point is, that you can't live a life and save hardly enough to retire on, in real money, if you are a middle class, working stiff, even if you make $100,000.00 a year, that's not a lot of money here and now, and loads of folks don't make that much, or even close. If something devastating happens, like an illness like cancer or some such, forget ever getting out of a hole.

There is a big gap between the rich and middle class and that's what's causing a lot of the economic woes to begin with.

When wealth gets concentrated at the top 1% of people, what is going on now, is exactly what happens to the economy, in general.

Let's hope things get better for everyone before they get lots worse.;)

P.S. 10% interest is a fairy-tale, see how much you make at 2 to 3% which is what you can really earn, in an honest, non-Madoff way.
I disagree with that thinking. I really do. The average household income is around $45k and I've met and I know people who make that and do save for college, retirement, etc....

If you use the example I stated ($100 a month socked away for 40 years) you only end up investing $48,000 to end up with the million. It's the power of compound interest. What if I'm half wrong and you end up with only $500k? Are you not still way, way better off than the person who saved nothing and was hoping for Uncle Sam to bail them out?

And no 10% is not a Madoff fairy tale. It's a statistical average that's you can find all over the 'net and and in any financial text book. Inflation averages 4% so, yes, in reality it's only 6%, but it's still far, far better than what you're getting out of Social Security.
 

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LOL....my grandparents retired to FL

I would say they are working middle class.....My grandfather was in the Navy for 25yrs then worked for the the Navy as a civilian for another 25 yrs...he gets retirement from both jobs...also SS checks...my grandmother was a secretary for the Navy for about 20 years as well so she gets retirement from that and her ss.....I wouldn't say thy are living the high life but they have a nice little condo in a retirement community and a nice little condo in VA beach to stay at while they visit all of us in the summer.....Now will I be able to do what they are doing in another 40 years...who knows ..but sure hope so :)
 

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My grandparents retired to CA. They retired as multi-millionaires to boot. Oh, and also, my grandpa came to this country when he was 3. He also had a hard time finding work after WWII because of the bias in this country towards Asians. (Apparently the fact that he won the Distinguished Service Cross meant nothing to employers.) So I'm of the opinion that if he could do it, I can do it. I don't think the country has changed so drastically that you can't do that any more. Maybe I'm the naive one. That's fine. I do know that if I or anyone else saves for retirement now and continues to do so that we'll end up better off than someone who does not.
 

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I disagree with that thinking. I really do. The average household income is around $45k and I've met and I know people who make that and do save for college, retirement, etc....

If you use the example I stated ($100 a month socked away for 40 years) you only end up investing $48,000 to end up with the million. It's the power of compound interest. What if I'm half wrong and you end up with only $500k? Are you not still way, way better off than the person who saved nothing and was hoping for Uncle Sam to bail them out?

And no 10% is not a Madoff fairy tale. It's a statistical average that's you can find all over the 'net and and in any financial text book. Inflation averages 4% so, yes, in reality it's only 6%, but it's still far, far better than what you're getting out of Social Security.
Hulk, you're right, you CAN retire when you want with the right job and the right plan. Don't let your friends hold you back or an writer tell you it can't be done due to the current administration. This is a great time to invest in a home, the stock market ect because things are GOING to go up sooner or later. We are about to start looking at the forclosure market to buy a home, and yes, a house is the best and most solid investment you can make if you have the credit to do so right now. I also know that my 401K is going to recover ( I had it invested fairly conservatively and it only lost about 15% of it's value and hubby's only lost 10%). However the BIGGEST investment you can make is YOURSELF, be sure you have a solid education and a job that has advancement opportunities, never quite learning, take college courses to improve your chances of moving up and on to better things.

Besides, everyone knows that with the right tax strategy you won't pay out the nose for taxes. After all rich people don't pay taxes:p
 

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My grandparents retired to CA. They retired as multi-millionaires to boot. Oh, and also, my grandpa came to this country when he was 3. He also had a hard time finding work after WWII because of the bias in this country towards Asians. (Apparently the fact that he won the Distinguished Service Cross meant nothing to employers.) So I'm of the opinion that if he could do it, I can do it. I don't think the country has changed so drastically that you can't do that any more. Maybe I'm the naive one. That's fine. I do know that if I or anyone else saves for retirement now and continues to do so that we'll end up better off than someone who does not.
Hulk, you are on the right track and thinking about it properly. 90% of the people I know will retire comfortably. The other 10% are trying to get there. If anyone thinks they can't do it well, it's like training a dog. Having a game plan and persistence pays off.
 

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I say dont listen to anyone but yourself. Every thing I have done since I started my career has always been subject to people judging me by telling me I will fail. I am 40 years old and have outdone every single one of them because i was unwilling to listen to any naysayers. If I did.. I would still be living in a mobile home in a trailer park as I was 13 years ago..

Land investment, housing investments, Even small investments such as heavy equipment, autos etc.. from auctions can turn money over quicker than anything.

I gambled on the stock market once.. and will never do it again.. But if I was more educated on the subject maybe I would. But I find when you buy something.. and you plan on turning it over.. It should be able to be walked on, sat on, or lived in. :) And it just wont disappear at a drop of the hat.

Good luck! You have the right attitude. you will make it.:) Prove them all wrong.... that really is the fun part.
 

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I say dont listen to anyone but yourself. Every thing I have done since I started my career has always been subject to people judging me by telling me I will fail. I am 40 years old and have outdone every single one of them because i was unwilling to listen to any naysayers. If I did.. I would still be living in a mobile home in a trailer park as I was 13 years ago..

Land investment, housing investments, Even small investments such as heavy equipment, autos etc.. from auctions can turn money over quicker than anything.

I gambled on the stock market once.. and will never do it again.. But if I was more educated on the subject maybe I would. But I find when you buy something.. and you plan on turning it over.. It should be able to be walked on, sat on, or lived in. :) And it just wont disappear at a drop of the hat.

Good luck! You have the right attitude. you will make it.:) Prove them all wrong.... that really is the fun part.
Well, I will admit that you can make money faster in real estate and other things than you can in the market. Personally, I prefer the market because it's much, much less of a hassle. I spent some time a while back researching some good mutual funds. I've got about a dozen or so funds that I buy every month. About once a year I sit down and re-evaluate those funds and my allocation so I don't end up lopsided in one area or another. Real estate and other tangible goods are much more of a hassle, but you can get much higher returns on them.

The thing that really kills me is I look at these people and they're not much worse off financially than I was at one time. I've mentioned in another thread that I woke up one winter day 3-4 yrs ago and was bone cold, freezing my butt off in crappy 500 sq. ft. duplex that I couldn't afford to heat because the walls were paper thin. I had something like $20-30k in debt, was staring at a credit card bill I couldn't pay and was overdrawn at the bank to boot. To say I was scared would be an understatement. I'm a bit sad that these friends of mine not only live like that, but choose to live like that and think it's crazy to live any other way.
 

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I already live in Florida a mile or two from a gorgeous beach (though that's luck of birth), and my DH already owns the home we're going to retire in here (it'll be paid off in the next ten years most likely) and we sure are not rich. He is very careful with his money and has worked very hard (Coast Guard for 16 plus years and counting). Nothing's impossible, do what you think is right, and who will be laughing when you are retiring here? Not your low aspiring friends!

I have never had a good job in my life, personally, but not because I didn't want the government to get my money- simply because I am not a 9-5 type at all. I'm more of a Jane-of-all-trades type and have always found my way.
 

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Post this current melt-down, this are going to be played on a totally different playing field.

Ask the Madoff people who lost billions about what being greedy and expecting a 10 to 12% return on their money brought them.

There are always some people who manage to live in a very spartan way and save enough to eke out a few bucks, but most people who retire in comfort do so because they INHERIT the bucko's to do so.

They just aren't going around telling anyone how they manged to retire so young and/or well.

You can take that little piece of information to the bank, I guarantee you!!:D
 

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There are always some people who manage to live in a very spartan way and save enough to eke out a few bucks, but most people who retire in comfort do so because they INHERIT the bucko's to do so.

They just aren't going around telling anyone how they manged to retire so young and/or well.

You can take that little piece of information to the bank, I guarantee you!!:D
Statistically speaking that's not true. Only 20% of America's millionaires inherited more than 10% of their wealth and 80% of them are first generation millionaires (like my grandfather). 80% of people in this country who have money are people who went out and earned it themselves starting from nothing. (Source: The Millionaire Next Door book)

Even if what you claim is true, where does that inheritance come from? How did their parents get it? Or their grandparents? Chances are they worked for it at some point. So at some point in time it was possible to start with nothing and end up with lots of money. What has fundamentally changed in this country to make that impossible today?

I guess I just can't accept that because I'm broke today I'm going to be broke tomorrow and I'll be broke the next day too. I work for Friday and then freak out when it's Monday 'cuz I'm broke again. Don't get me wrong, I've lived like that before and it was no fun. I like to think that by making wise decisions I can one day walk up to my broke friends and burn $100 bills under their noses just because I can. (Ok, maybe not literally, but you never know.)
 

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I loved the end of you last post Hulk.. I didnt come from money..nor did i have any for a LONG time after starting my business. I had the fear of my son and I (and Digit) not having a home. I had a fear of losing my sanity and being dependent on others. My grandfather taught me alot about my trade without me knowing it long ago. I never thought I would be doing what I do now. He never gave me anything but the will to WANT to make my life better. He gave me sound advice and it took years to even fathom that what he was saying could possibly be true.


There are people who expect life to fall out of the sky into thier laps..And there are the ones that pull the sky down and hold on tight for a real ride of hard work, blood , sweat and tears. It takes frugality, and perseverance to make things go your way. And the best thought every morning for me is.. I can do it. I will do it. and nobody is going to stop me from doing it. That has been my motto through the thick and thin of things..And there has been more thin than thick i tell ya.

I started here with 72 bucks in the bank.. a credit card with a large limit. I am not rich as in..money in the bank rich..because my money is tied up in investments. But. If I decide to retire now.. I could easily. But I still have some points to prove..Just like you do Hulk.:D
 
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