Hugs and Kisses? Physical restraint?

I hug my dogs, kiss my dogs on the top of their heads and pat them hard on their heads and gently tug their fur and tails, bump into them, walk over them dragging my feet on them, gently step on them (but not actually putting weight on them). They get a treat every time I do any of this. They at least tolerate it all very well, I think they like some of it too. Lloyd oddly seems to like having the fur on the back of his head tugged gently. They all like to go up against my legs, and I lean over them with one arm around their chest and then I smack their butts or sides with my other hand. It makes them smile and get all wiggly.

I do all that to my dogs because they are around kids a lot, especially one little girl (my niece) who is a bit evil on occasion, lol. She is usually good about being respectful to animals, my sister works very hard with her on it, but she is only a year and a half. We are always right there so she has never had the chance to do anything to the dogs, but just incase I want them to be desensitized to all that stuff.

Inga said:

Do you ever physically restrain your dogs? Are you afraid to do so?

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Yes, I physically restrain them and I'm not at all afraid of doing so. I do it to perform needed hygiene and stuff like that. Cara doesn't like her nails trimmed. B'asia doesn't like her butt hair brushed, and so on. I've had to pull cactus splines out of the dogs lips/mouth. So yes, I restrain them sometimes. They are conditioned to it. I have never had an issue with it. Not even a growl. I can't imagine one of my dogs growling at me. The thought is laughable.

I also take the position that my husband and I make the rules for the household, just as we would if we had children.

How many of you feel that if you wish to hug and kiss your dogs you should be able to no matter what the dog thinks? How many of you believe that your dogs enjoy the physical affection?

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I think I should be able to do ANYTHING that doesn't hurt my dogs. And I do. They seem to love the affection, though. Even hugs and kisses, so I don't really force these things. Jaia is not a licker at all, but when he comes in my lap, he licks me very lightly on the lips a time or two.

But if they turned away or tried to avoid my kisses, I wouldn't force it on them. Just because that's not what the sharing of affection is about to me. It's about two willing subjects. If one dog didn't like it, I wouldn't do it to satisfy my own needs. After all, if one dog doesn't like it, I've got 3 others who do.

Blaze is not overly affectionate. But he tolerates my hugs and kisses 100%. I have never heard this dog growl at me or another human who does it. He knows its unacceptable. When he wants affection he acts like a huge lap dog. Most of the time he is not. But he lets me do anything I want to him. and that is the only way I will have it.
No he doesnt love baths, but he has no choice. He knows when I point to the bathroom (If Im bathing him at home. Noramally i bring him to work to groom him). that he has no choice, so he sulks, but walks in to the bathroom and hops in to the tub. He doesnt mind his nails being done at all. But I never cut them except for the declaws, since his are natrally worn down to the quicks. There is literally no room to cut any more on them. He doesnt like his teeth being scaled, but again he tolerates it, as he has no choice lol.
I like to think I have molded a wonderful dog. He honestly has no issues at all.
Little kids can crawl all over him, food can easily be taken from his mouth from a stranger if need to be (which is great since we were at a cottage last week. and a idiot gave him some freaking chicken wings while i was in the outhouse. And one of the guys there that we just met a few hours before grabbed them out of his mouth. and boy did I give shit to the other guy lol)

This is just how it has been down in my house. All our dogs were not allowed to be grouchy teeth barring monsters, to us or any guests. it is simpily not tolerated. At all, ever. period. And that is how it will always be.

I never get how any one can live with a dog who rules the roost so to say. where they can growl, guard things, be it their toys, or a owners iteams. guard food. bite if they dont want to move out of the way or get their nails done. its simpily unacceptable to me.
My boyfriends parents dog is like that. She growls if you try to move her. Will bite or try to if she doesnt like what you are doing. She KNOWS its unnaceptable with me. I make her work for things. if she is out for a walk with me, she knows pulling my arm out of my socket is not going to happen. I have known this dog for 5 years now (she is now 12 years old. lhaso apso) I have molded her to fit my needs. Her family still cant do much with her, they dont take my advice. So I gave up. But with me she knows not to be a brat. Or off the couch she goes, growl all you want, I dont care. Snap at me if Im giving you a treat, well it will be gone ect lol. She is a angel when I babysit her.
I have alwas preformed a small bit of NILIF. nothing bif. But I go inside first, sit/go to bed before you get fed. I go down stairs first ect. So i think this has helped alot. I never even heard of nilif before joining do forums, I just did it before I even knew about it lol.

Even the cat has to sit (and she knows how to) before she is allowed to eat or get a treat lmao.

Well... For one thing, Basil is my first dog that is 100% my responsibility, so I have little experience with other dogs, particularly those that do not behave like Basil. That being said, Basil is the most ragdoll, do-whatever-you-want-to-him dog ever. I'm convinced that whoever his first couple of owners were did a wonderful job socializing him as a puppy. Even yesterday I took him to Petsmart and while shopping for a travel carrier that I can take on the bus with me, I shoved him into many carriers, most of which were much to small for him. He looked a little tired, but still happy and with no signs of resistance. Heck, I've even put him in my backpack and carried him around, though he must have thought it was some sort of doggy hammoc, because he promptly fell asleep, lol!

Anyways, yes, I DO hug and kiss my dog, I also pick him up, snuggle him, and restrain him in all sorts of other ways, which he doesn't seem to mind. He even seems to enjoy the hugs and kisses. When I give him a kiss (on top of the head, I don't do the mouth kisses, lol!) he usually doesn't react, but sometimes looks up at me and licks his lips a little in that affectionate way, like when we come home and he's greeting us, or he sees a kid at the park and he's craving some lovin's, which is usually accompanied by a full-body wiggle. I also think he likes hugs, because when I hug him he kind of leans into it, and if I stop he paws at me as if to say "Hey, why'd you stop?"

And yes, I also put my face near his. I think doing so is perfectly fine just so long as it's YOUR dog and not a strange one, and that you know that you can trust them. I don't see it as some sort of challenge, dogs greet face-to-face at dog parks and such all the time. Anyways, whenever I put my face near his, he always gently sniffs and does that affectionate lip-licking thing (which i call his Kissy Face). He's a very sweet guy, for which I sometimes credit his French ancestry, lol!

Also, Inga, your Rotties sound like such sweethearts!

My dog doesn't completely enjoy face-to-face snuggling, unless he invites it. For that reason, I "force" it on him. If I pull him to me in a hug and put my face to his, he turns his head to the side. I then grab his muzzle and pull his face to mine. It would not be accurate to say this causes him any distress. I'm not a big fan of kissy face with dogs, but I want to be able to do it if I have to.

IMO, "force" has gotten a bad rap--mainly because of boneheaded practitioners. Using the principals of force x counter-force (as in martial arts) you can get a dog who is much stronger than yourself moving in the direction you want him to go--and quite gently. Ex: if you apply slight pressure to a dog's right shoulder, he will shift his weight into it. You can then use his own off-balance rightward force to turn him to the right. Regardless of the strength disparity--and who has the advantage--it is a useful technique for avoiding injury all the way 'round. BTW, if you want to really see this principle put into practice, watch a physical therapist, or occupational therapist, work with motor-impaired disabled kids. It can be the only way to get a CP kid moving within his ROM, without breaking anything.

Inga said:

Many people have had posts about their dogs biting them or growling at them when they kiss or hug their dogs. Some folks have stated that they cannot physically restrain their dogs or they get mad. I am curious as to how many people have this issue with their dogs?

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Kim's fear issues were such that entering a room unexpectedly would send her to a hiding place. Approaching her was not an option...had to wait til she approached me and reward her quietly and gently without putting spatial pressure on her. Hugging and kissing wasn't really an option lol.

As we progressed though she reached a point where she could function in regular society, and we just kept going. I liked (and still do like) to take her with me anywhere I could, plus there was the possibility of having or caring for kids at some point, so we slowly taught her to allow physical restraint, being picked up (in case of emergency), kisses, rolling over (as a game), having her tail brushed and ears cleaned, etc. Learning to tolerate a "head lock" went so well that now she does it voluntarily when she wants attention, and will sleep soundly with my arm draped across her. I honestly think her life is improved by learning to accept these things, and even enjoy them.

Inga said:

I also know some people that feel "this is my house, so my rules" when it comes to their dogs. I guess I tend to come from that mind set myself. I don't think I force my dogs to do too many things that they do not like but there are a few things they would opt out of if given half a chance. Things like baths, nails, teeth brushing and scaling are all things they would say "No" to if I were not into the forcing it to happen deal.

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Pretty much the same here...when it concerns their safety and well-being, sure they have to do things they don't like. Nails and bathtime are top of the list. But I make it as easy-to-get-through and rewarding as possible so they do tolerate it...even offering their paws for trimming and climbing into the tub themselves for baths. But they don't like it.

Inga said:

How many of you feel that if you wish to hug and kiss your dogs you should be able to no matter what the dog thinks? How many of you believe that your dogs enjoy the physical affection?

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Absolutely not.

Webster is a snuggle-dog and loves nothing more than to be bundled up and snuggled. The trick was teaching him that he doesn't get that on demand...has to be polite about it. Kim was a matter of shaping...she *wanted* to be close but was afraid to...so it was a step by step process of showing her what was okay and that she would be rewarded for staying close. At no point was she forced into anything. Again, now she even "requests" the close contact even when she knows there is not food/toy reward, so I believe she finds it self-reinforcing on a social level.

Inga said:

How many feel you should be able to do anything you want to your dog? (within reason) and why?

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I kinda said this above but...personally I think you should work with your dog to where you can do anything necessary in terms of keeping them healthy and being able to act in an emergency situation. If your dog doesn't like your hand approaching from the top, teach him it's rewarding because you never know when a stranger will and you don't want the person to be snapped at and your dog pay the ultimate price. If your dog is of a size to be carried, they should be able to tolerate it without panicking. Having carried my first heart dog who had just been hit by a truck and mangled to by family's car to rush to the vet, I can't stress how important this is. He was an 80lb dog..if he fought being carried, I couldn't have done it.

But doing things your dog doesn't like just for the sake of it? No. I see no reason to razzle your dog with a foot or blow on his ears or pull his tail or whatnot just to get a reaction, knowing it annoys him. Just as I see no reason for my dogs to whine at me when I'm on the phone because it annoys ME lol.

Marsh Muppet said:

Using the principals of force x counter-force (as in martial arts) you can get a dog who is much stronger than yourself moving in the direction you want him to go--and quite gently. Ex: if you apply slight pressure to a dog's right shoulder, he will shift his weight into it. You can then use his own off-balance rightward force to turn him to the right. Regardless of the strength disparity--and who has the advantage--it is a useful technique for avoiding injury all the way 'round. BTW, if you want to really see this principle put into practice, watch a physical therapist, or occupational therapist, work with motor-impaired disabled kids. It can be the only way to get a CP kid moving within his ROM, without breaking anything.

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OT but...this is also clutch if you have a very large horse standing on your foot Can't say how many times I've seen people attempting to shove a horse off from their side only to have the horse shift MORE weight in that direction...when a touch on the other side fixes the problem almost immediately.

Nargle said:

Anyways, yes, I DO hug and kiss my dog, I also pick him up, snuggle him, and restrain him in all sorts of other ways, which he doesn't seem to mind. He even seems to enjoy the hugs and kisses. When I give him a kiss (on top of the head, I don't do the mouth kisses, lol!) he usually doesn't react, but sometimes looks up at me and licks his lips a little in that affectionate way, like when we come home and he's greeting us, or he sees a kid at the park and he's craving some lovin's, which is usually accompanied by a full-body wiggle.

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All that lip-licking and full-body wriggling are usually submissive, calming gestures, often shown when a dog is unsure of your intentions or a bit uncomfortable with the present situation. Just as a general FYI...something you might want to watch for.

What a great idea for a thread Inga!

I'm a big believer in respecting personal space (for anyone, four or two legged) so I tend to pick and choose my moments of huggy kissy face...lol.

Many of the dogs I work with have "space limits" and putting a dog over threshold because I would like to give them affection is simply not fair to the dog, nor to the owners trying their best to work on it and will most likely set them back.

For new puppy owners...I discuss at LENGTH about desensitization, handling exercises (including the 'in the arms settle) and crate desens. as well...so that grooming visits, vet visits and boarding/travelling are not as stressful for their pets as they would be if done cold.

I started very early with Cracker getting her used to spooning, head and tail touches, mouth touches, hugging, "foot massage" (prep for nail trimming) etc. If she showed signs of it being TOO much we backed up a step and worked some more with lots of rewards. She's a bit of a soft dog and feels social pressure strongly, though she's come a long way and we cuddle a LOT> This makes grooming, medication etc so much easier and my vet is also very appreciative.

It is important to teach your dog tolerance for safety's sake and for your dog's emotional wellbeing but it is not necessary for your dog to LOVE anything you do..lol.

So, just a reminder, just because your dog is being tolerant of the two year old crawling on him, pulling his ears and screaming loudly, does not mean that he is "having fun" nor does it guarantee he won't reach his limit.

Bolo REALLY likes aggressive sort of affection..

like our typical greeting ritual

she runs over and I grab her by the hips and pick her up. then I carry her like a baby to bed/couch/chair and throw her on it. then we wrestle.

She also enjoys HARD butt smacks. harder you smack, the more she begs for it by shoving her wagging tailed butt at you and yipping happily.

sometimes she dive bombs me while im sitting down, knocking me over and making a monumental effort to lick the back of my throat. (blech..but sweet)

she also enjoys grooming people's feet and if you are a female wearing a low cut shirt, she wants to lick your cleavage( )

overall she is EXTREMELY affectionate and the more roughly affectionate you get the better she likes it.

Kenya loves hugs when she is either sitting, laying down, or on all fours, she wags her tail, leans into me, and loves the attention

she also likes kisses she always tries to lick my lips but I dont let her lol


some hugs, like the picture below, she doesn't like. but she would never growl at me or anything.. thats totally unacceptable behavior and she knows it

lol her face cracks me up

Mine are all different, but I do hug and kiss them, some more than others. I haven't heard anyone say their dog does this yet, but Ripley will grumble/growl sometimes if you hug him by leaning over him. He is an affectionate dog, he enjoys laying by people and being petted, belly rubs or scratches on the head, but the grabbing/hugging thing bothers him so we just don't do it. Other things we have to do, nail clipping, brushing and tooth brushing, he hates but I do it anyway. He has growled at me while I was brushing him and tried to nip us when we were clipping his nails, and he also nipped a vet tech who quicked him while clipping his nails. The nail thing is something we have put alot of work into and he no longer nips or even struggles. At no point was I ever afraid to do those things that needed to be done though.

Scarlett is the polar opposite...she is in your face all the time, on top of you, loves kisses, being held, hugged, petted, to the point that I'm pushing her away multiple times a day. She loves being groomed too, including nails.

Shiner and Frosty are both more aloof, they tolerate being hugged and kissed and move away when they've had enough. When they move away we respect that.

So I have a question for those who say they wouldn't tolerate a growl...what would you do if your dog did growl at you? I have heard numerous times that a growl is a warning and if you punish the warning, you'll get a dog that goes right for the bite with no warning. Personally I am not convinced of this, and in the past with Ripley I have punished his instances of growling by saying "no" sharply and removing him from the room, like a time out. It works both ways though, because like I said, I try to avoid hugging him b/c I know he doesn't like it, but at the same time, I want a certain level of tolerance from him. Just wondering what you all mean when you say you don't tolerate it or your dog knows it's unacceptable.