Basically someone who never health tests or titles their dogs and breeds just for fun or money. Simple.
You know, I really don't use the terms puppymill or back yard breeder much. I think there is a wide range of breeder quality, and that frequently these terms are just used to lump a group of people into a category which may or may not be descriptive of their practices. That said, if I bought a puppy from someone who breeds the kind of dog I want (purpose bred - for show or sport) I expect them to know the pedigrees they are working with to avoid health and temperament issues, know what health tests are important for their breed (and do them) and be willing to support my ownership and efforts through the years with that dog. The purpose bred dog is more likely to meet the breed standard, have fewer health and temperament problems and have the ability to do the job I want done.Would there be any differences in the dogs? Say two dogs of the same breed, one bought from a reputable breeder, one bought from a back yard breeder, will there be any difference because of the quality of the breeder?
Couldn't agree more.. . . I think there is a wide range of breeder quality, and that frequently these terms are just used to lump a group of people into a category which may or may not be descriptive of their practices. . .
What were you not impressed with? Was it just her favored (wrong) pronunciation of the breed or was there more? I'd be one to let that slide and not give it another thought or even remember it . . . chaulk it up to eccentricity.PatchworkRobot..that chart is very good and very informative. It breaks it down very well. And I like how it incorportes the "hobby breeder" as well. Years ago I used to pet sit for a hobby breeder. She bred Pomeranians and Yorkies. She called herself a hobby breeder. And she fit your chart to a "T". She was active in the Kennel Club, all her dogs were AKC registered. As for testing, I dont know about. But she ran a very very clean operation. And she only bred her poms and yorkies, the dams (females, right?) once a year. Anyway, she was small time, but I felt at home and comfy with her set up. When I went to look at my Pap puppy, I was not impressed. I pronounce papillon like pappy-yawn. She kept saying pappy-lawn. And when I would say it correctly, she would go "huh?" This was my first clue. Shouldnt you be able to pronounce the type of dog that you are breeding and selling??
I would assume that if you care about the breed, you'd know everything about it. Including how to pronounce the name correctly. I remember reading a thread about someone getting a breed called a Cane Corso, and there was a small dispute between what seemed like a responsible CC owner and an irresponsible one over how to pronounce the name correctly. So if the breeder can't pronounce Papillon correctly, that would throw up a red flag to me and I'd be allons-y my way out of there.Shouldn't you be able to pronounce the type of dog that you are breeding and selling??
Maybe, maybe not. I may get some flack for this but I have not had any better luck health wise with dogs from a 'good' breeder versus mine that were from 'bybs'. My sheltie from a show/sport breeder was healthier than my other two from 'bybs' but his temperament was pretty bad. My papillons have all been from show breeders and have had fantastic temperaments but I'd be lying if I said all were healthy. We've run into the worst (and untestable as of now) genetic issues they can have as well as one case on luxating patellas. I think it's just bad luck in general since NAD is so incredibly rare. We hit the (bad) jackpot there.Would there be any differences in the dogs? Say two dogs of the same breed, one bought from a reputable breeder, one bought from a back yard breeder, will there be any difference because of the quality of the breeder?
Definitely agree. I hate the term BYB in particular.You know, I really don't use the terms puppymill or back yard breeder much. I think there is a wide range of breeder quality, and that frequently these terms are just used to lump a group of people into a category which may or may not be descriptive of their practices. That said, if I bought a puppy from someone who breeds the kind of dog I want (purpose bred - for show or sport) I expect them to know the pedigrees they are working with to avoid health and temperament issues, know what health tests are important for their breed (and do them) and be willing to support my ownership and efforts through the years with that dog. The purpose bred dog is more likely to meet the breed standard, have fewer health and temperament problems and have the ability to do the job I want done.
When I spoke to her on the phone she told me that she had one male and two female puppies. I was most interested in the male and I told her this. When I got there, the male is the only puppy she let me see. She had him in a side room. Her kennels were in the basement. I asked if I could see the other puppies, she told me no, that I had told her I wanted a male. I did, but I wanted to see all the puppies and choose, know what I mean? So, I was not allowed to see the other puppies. I also asked if I could see the mother and father. She told me that no one goes into her kennels. I said that was fine. Could she bring them up so that I could see them, as I wanted to see what the pup would look like when fully grown, she told me no, that he would be 6-7 pounds and look like a pappy-lawn. I almost said sarcastically "what the hell is a pappy-lawn?" But I bit my tongue.What were you not impressed with? Was it just her favored (wrong) pronunciation of the breed or was there more? I'd be one to let that slide and not give it another thought or even remember it . . . chaulk it up to eccentricity.
Did you get the pup?
SOB
What term would you prefer? Unethical breeders are unethical, it probably doesn't matter what they're called.Definitely agree. I hate the term BYB in particular.
Correct me if I"m wrong... but is this the same dog that bit your 3 year old in the face? Because to me, biting a child does not say great personality and temperament.Yes I did get the pup. I fell in love with him. He had the personality that I wanted. And then I brought my 3 year old and my husband to meet him and the pup went crazy over my 3 year old. He crawled into his lap and was licking him and nuzzling him, then the pup fell asleep in my husband's arms. The pup sold us on himself. The breeder did not impress me, the pup did.
I want to say thanks but the fact is that the chart isn't mine. I found it a while back and have it saved for situations like these.Patchwork: great chart, hope you don't mind that I saved it.
Yep, same dog. He also bit my nose this morning when he was excited and playing. It's not his fault that he bit us and it's not his personality or temperment that made him nip us. It's me and my erroneous training of him, which I am trying to undo. I started last night as soon as I got home. He is not allowed to bite any of us anymore, not even playing. When we were wrestling last night, I gave him his toys to chew on, instead of me. He adjusted just fine. His personality and temperment are still wonderful and perfect for our family. No one will convince me otherwise. I acknowledge that I have screwed up in training and playing with him simply out of ignorance. I am a new dog owner and what I "thought" was right, was not.Correct me if I"m wrong... but is this the same dog that bit your 3 year old in the face? Because to me, biting a child does not say great personality and temperament.
I don't think anyone said anything like that...So, what are you saying..that my Papillon suddenly has a bad temperment and personality? Overnight he turned into a 6 pound Kujo? Should I lock him down with a 30 pound logging chain like I see them do with other vicious dogs??
Er... Sorry, but play biting a kid doesn't mean bad temperament, it means the puppy needs better bite inhibition.Correct me if I"m wrong... but is this the same dog that bit your 3 year old in the face? Because to me, biting a child does not say great personality and temperament.
It was a joke. Kujo..30 pound chain...my dog weighs 6 pounds and is half the size of my cat. hahaI don't think anyone said anything like that...