Puppy Forum and Dog Forums banner

1 - 13 of 13 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,511 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Jubel is good with sit as a voice command, hand signal, or both together but if he isn't within a few feet of me already and I ask for a sit he walks up and sits right in front of me. If we are walking and he starts pulling I'll usually ask him to sit and wait for a random amount of time before we start walking again and he doesn't walk back to me in that situation (ie whatever he was pulling towards is more interesting than me but he will listen and sit).

I'd like for him to simply sit where he currently is and not walk to me then sit. I tried working on this some the other night by not rewarding if he approached me to sit and blocking him with an extended leg when he tried. In the end I think I mostly only succeeded in confusing him.

If I ask for a down from a distance he doesn't have a problem so I tried having him go from a down to a sit but he would come towards me before sitting pretty much everytime. He did a few sits with approaching and I jackpoted those but so far it just isn't clicking and he started getting frustrated and just barking when I asked for a sit and not even moving.

Help.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
20,765 Posts
Maybe if you tie him to something so he CAN'T come to you and ask for a sit? If you do it right he might get the idea.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,722 Posts
I would work on the 'sit wherever you are right now' at home first. I used a target for this, where the dogs had to keep their front paws on the target while changing position from down to sit to stand etc. I've seen others use a platform that the dog is on when asked to change position, because it makes it clearer for the dog that it has to do it where it is right now. Start close to you and gradually build up distance, then make the target smaller and smaller and then remove it altogether.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
145 Posts
I can see how it might not work and could be confusing for some dogs, but what worked for me, is giving the hand signal for stay and saying 'sit'. Worth a try maybe. He always wanted to sit in front of me, so when I said sit and he began to approach I gave the hand signal for stay, he stopped, kept the hand signal and said 'sit' and he did. Has worked ever since so I stuck with it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,318 Posts
I really like the targeting idea, although some may find it slightly over-complicated. That said, the platform idea might be a better choice.

As an alternative to an actual platform, you could try using some other simple demarcation point --- a stairway landing or porch, perhaps a jump bar or broom handle or similar item laid out cross-wise directly in front of the dog. A bar (or platform) presents the dog with a visual and physical barrier to contend with. Begin by cuing sits at close range and gradually increase your distance from the dog. Fade the bar / broom handle as you progress.

If the dog begins to move forward instead of sitting, do take immediate action, ... ie: walk in toward him and/or issue a timely friendly NRM, oops, or whatever. Just not an outstretched boot, preferably.

If you're using treats ... be aware of where you are paying for correct responses. I would pay "back there", exactly in the spot where you want him to be sitting and where you expect him to remain sitting until further notice. ... <<< *reward marker, *return to dog, *pay the sit from there, and then *release >>> Doing so will help to reduce any further inclination to come forward.

Don't forget the release.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,927 Posts
We managed this (to a point) inadvertently. If my DH was off of work he would sit outside with Caeda quite often in the summer. When I got home from work she would of course HAVE to get to me immediately. Part of her training to greet nicely was to not approach until she was calm. I would either say or signal sit from a distance, then approach once she was sitting. You could set it up Jubel on a tether and step well out of range and signal or say sit perhaps....just to start off. A bit of a bass ackwards approach....normally I would think increasing the distance gradually....but we managed it by accident.

We also learned that she will respond do a hand signal if she is looking through the glass door at us :D
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,378 Posts
Jubel sounds like he knows "Sit" and he wants to do what you want. However, you may have unintentionally taught him that "Sit" means "Come to me, and then sit right in front of me." So, when you want anything else, he's confused, and barks. Other folks have suggested ways of training incremental distance, so I'm just going to generalize and re-state it.

When you train any behavior, one suggestion is to change only one parameter at a time, distance, duration, distractions, or delivery schedule. In this case, the only thing that you want to change is distance. In puppy class, we train Sit. Then, we take a step back and ask for another Sit. If the pup tries to come forward, the we put one hand out (as if to say stop!), and then say the dog's name and Sit. "Jubel, Sit" Repeat until Jubel sits, then reward for the sit. Then, take yet another step back and repeat. You are NOT saying "SIT, Sit, Sit!" You want to indicate Stop with your body language, and say Jubel Sit. I expect him to be confused for the first two or three times. Then, he will just do it. Then, he'll sleep on it for a day or two... and just get it....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
45 Posts
Aside from the stuff already mentioned. I wonder if it would help to toss the treat to him combined with tying him up so he can't actually come to you and sit. What I means is tie him up a short distance away from you, and ask him to sit, if htat works and he sits, in stead od walking over to him and giving the treat, toss the treat to him.

My puppy has the reverse problem. Will sit in place when I say sit, but won't lie down unless if his nose is right up against my hand (my hand signal for lie down command is placing my hand on the ground). I'm slowly trying to get him to go by sound rather than hand signals, and will try and build up distance so the tips here are quite helpful to me too.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,511 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
I tried slowly increasing the distance the other day with a box standing in front of him to be a barrier to stepping forward. It worked from a short distance but when I took another step back he wanted to step around the box or knock it over. I probably just increased the distance too fast.

It's not so much that he thinks he has to sit in front of me as he wants to be within arms reach to get his treat I think. If he's next to me he'll sit next to me, but if he's a few step or more away he'll walk over then sit. How he was taught sit I couldn't tell you, he already knew it when I adopted him. All I've taught him for sit is a hand signal I wanted to use for it. I think with time and a combination of the suggestions above we'll get it.

Thanks
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
220 Posts
I had a hard time with this one too. What we ended up doing was using his mat. I Started him in a sit/stay on his mat, then gave him a down, and treated for staying on the mat, then sit from the down on the mat, down sit down sit, etc. I started standing about a foot in front of him, and every few commands I would take a step back. If he moved off his mat, I would walk him back over to his mat, give him a sit stay and start over. That was day 1, for probably 3-4 5 minutes sessions. On day 2 I moved his mat, but worked it in the spot his mat was, starting from the beginning, standing close then slowing backing farther away. By day 3 he understood that sit is wherever you are, from whatever you were doing, no matter where mommy is. I hope that helps.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,220 Posts
You probably did increase the distance to quickly. A lot of dogs seem to have a mental barrier when they hit a certain distance too. Like Kaki who plowed through 6, 7, and 8 feet like it was a piece of cake. I pushed for 10ft and suddenly she was confused trying to inch forward.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,511 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
It's amazing sometimes how much it helps sometimes to give the dog a day or two to sleep on a new concept and then just see it click. I could see some progress a few days ago and didn't really go back to this until last night and he did 10 times better with sitting where he was last night. Usually Jubel is VERY quick at learning new things, as soon as he can grasp what it is I want from him he's got it really quickly. But with something like this that is just changing something he already knows slightly it's harder to grasp.

We'll definetly need to work on reinforcing it some more but he really seems to get the idea now that "sit" means put your butt down right where you are not come over to me and plop your butt down. Thanks for the suggestions everyone. Putting a barrier in front of him as well as having him jump up on the couch and rotate through "down", "sit", "stand" sequences really seemed to help.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,378 Posts
Spread the word: "It's amazing sometimes how much it helps sometimes to give the dog a day or two to sleep on a new concept and then just see it click." Sleeping on it is well-researched educational psychology (different than behavioral...). When you see people unhappy that their dogs aren't learning something immediately, suggest 3 days to sleep on it. The dog usually needs only 1 night's sleep... but the owner may need the full 3 nights to be more patient :) (Border collies only need a quick nap :) )
 
1 - 13 of 13 Posts
Top