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My 9 month old Toller will jump up and put her front paws on the kitchen counter whenever there is food there. She has never gotten any food, as we keep it at least six inches from the edge where she can't reach it, but she won't give up.

Giving her a treat for getting down won't help, as she is bright enough to know she has to jump up before she can get down for a treat. Giving her a treat for not jumping up doesn't make sense; she would just jump up as soon as I stopped giving her treats. I've tried "Pet Corrector"
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B005H0I7A8/ref=asc_df_B005H0I7A85297512/?tag=hyprod-20&creative=394997&creativeASIN=B005H0I7A8&linkCode=df0&hvadid=218413592118&hvpos=1o1&hvnetw=g&hvrand=9675610810851339397&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9005635&hvtargid=pla-355923001118
but all that does is train her to jump up to get a treat when she gets down. I can't think of anything that does make sense.

I have a remote training collar that I haven't used in 20 years (if it even still works) and that would seem to be perfect, but it seems a bit drastic.

So, how do I stop her from jumping up on the counter?
 

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take away the opportunity to go into the kitchen to be near the counter... I have restricted areas in my house... when I first got the rabbits.... the best way to teach the dogs not to harass the rabbits was to not let them do it at all...
 

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Dogs are opportunistic (scavengers if left to their own devices).

Do not leave food on the counter. Ever. One reward and she will own the counter whenever you have your back turned. Be smarter than the dog.. give her no opportunity to be wrong. Gate the kitchen, but dogs can breech gates (jump over them).

The do make a device known as a scat mat. Two feet on the mat "completes the circuit" and delivers a mild shock (9v battery is the supply).

Funny scat mat story. The original Scat Mat had a power converter you plugged into the wall. I had a cat who was bound and determined to LIVE on the kitchen counter. I bought a scat mat, plugged it in and sat down to watch. Sure enough.. Mr. Cat jumped on the counter and completed the circuit. He leapt straight up in the air and landed on the fkloor and looked over his shoulder at the counter with death dagger eyes.. then he looked at me and I had to laugh. His look was one of "I have friends with big claws who are much larger..."

Next day I set up the scat mat and went to work. Got home that night and there is Mr. Cat sitting in the middle of the Scat Mat cleaning a paw. I was like What the Heck (more words than that but not nice words...). Mr. Cat (who was very smart) had risked life and limb and had bitten through the scat mat cord that goes from the transformer to the scat mat. He bit it through not once, but in several places.. and made 6 distinct sections. So much for the Scat Mat and training the cat.

Never did get him to stay off the counter in 17 years of owning him.

Never let your dog self reward from the counter and let her know in no uncertain terms that feet on the counter is not tolerated and remember, one time of self rewqard and all bets are off.
 

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You need to finish the 4 on the floor training by extending the time between treats. My little guys are supposed to stay on the rug when we are in the kitchen and get treats given at a variable rate during that time. The rest of the time she needs to stay out of there. I'd probably have her dinner in a bowl at the back of the counter and roll a kibble to a dog with 4 on the floor every so often. Start with every 2-10 seconds and in a week try for every 10-120 seconds. Reward is eaten away from the object of interest! And any time you see something amazing like she lays down out of the traffic pattern praise and treats on the spot!
 

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I say put the antique ecollar on the puppy and FRY her every time she even goes near the counter. That's the advice you really wanted to hear, isn't it ?

Listen. Your long history of posts reveals that positive reinforcement tactics of your own ill design aren't working for you and your dog, consistently, nor is punishment for that matter. Management seems to be too much of a bother, because at present you insist on leaving food within her reach for no other reason than convenience. And that's just incredibly unfair to your pup.

Seek guidance from a skilled R+ trainer, on-going and in-person. Get them to take you under their wing for a complete philosophical makeover, before it's too late. Honestly, your pup deserves better than any possible suggestions available to you here at the forum.
 

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Every time I see a thread like this I think about that guy who signed up here to ask how he could stop his dog from getting into the garbage can while he was away. He refused to put the garbage can in a cupboard, or put it up high, or buy a new can with a locking cover, or buy the push-pedal kind, or anything else involving moving or changing the can -- he just wanted the dog to know better than to raid this food scraps-filled, open-top can while he was gone. We all (rightly) thought he was an idiot.

Listen, man. You're supposed to be the smart one. Go with the obvious option here and stop leaving food out.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Listen. Your long history of posts reveals that positive reinforcement tactics of your own ill design aren't working for you and your dog, consistently, nor is punishment for that matter. Management seems to be too much of a bother, because at present you insist on leaving food within her reach for no other reason than convenience. And that's just incredibly unfair to your pup.
If you don't want to be helpful that is fine; but just block my posts instead of giving stupid replies.
 

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You need to finish the 4 on the floor training by extending the time between treats. My little guys are supposed to stay on the rug when we are in the kitchen and get treats given at a variable rate during that time. The rest of the time she needs to stay out of there. I'd probably have her dinner in a bowl at the back of the counter and roll a kibble to a dog with 4 on the floor every so often. Start with every 2-10 seconds and in a week try for every 10-120 seconds. Reward is eaten away from the object of interest! And any time you see something amazing like she lays down out of the traffic pattern praise and treats on the spot!
I guess I got spoiled with two dogs that didn't need that; but maybe she does. Thanks.
 

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If you only have food out while you're cooking, then bar the dog from the kitchen while you're cooking. When I tell mine to leave the kitchen, they go and lie on the dividing line between the kitchen and dining room, but you can train a "go to mat" or "go to place" anywhere.

If you can't be bothered to train that, then put the dog in a crate or another room while you're preparing and eating food (that's what we do with the cats here; we put them in a closed room for a while).
 

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Gate your kitchen, lol. I have the same issue, except that my 10 month old puppy has a newfound affection for steak knives too (and tupperware lids). Our kitchen has two doors that are not convenient to gate off at all, so yeah... we just put everything to the back of the counter and dishes in the sink (although my kids are still awfully bad at that). You can always temporarily store stuff in the microwave too. If I'm making cookies or something else that has to sit out and can't be in the kitchen all day, she's gated in another room or crated.

I'm just thankful she won't be big enough to read the back of the counter.
 

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Keep food off the counter. If you're cooking or something and don't really have a choice, crate the dog. Taking away the opportunity does a great deal to train them not to do something.

You can also do something like Kathy suggested. The pup has to be in a certain spot when you're in the kitchen. We did something similar with my dog. He tried once, and then we led him from the kitchen and he was not allowed to be in there while I was cooking. Now, he is allowed in the kitchen when I'm cooking and can even be trusted to leave food on the counter alone, but we strictly managed it his first year here. He typically goes and lays on the couch while I'm cooking now, and I will occasionally walk over and drop some scraps in front of his nose as a reward for staying out of the way, which seems to have worked well.
 

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I have two 80 lb expert counter-surfers and in my 5 years of trying different things, only 2 have worked:

1. Don't leave anything out EVER! Not even crumbs. Eventually the dog WILL get bored and will stop checking because they know there's nothing there.

2. Gate off the kitchen so the dog doesn't have access.

We usually do a combination of the two. If there's absolutely nothing they can get, we allow them access, but if there's anything on the counter at all it gets gated off.

If it's happening while you're in the kitchen either train your dog the "leave it" command or don't allow the dog to be in there when you are.
 

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As many have suggested, management will work but of course will never fully solve the problem. Inevitably, something a dog shouldn't get into will be left on a counter when management fails. Since I leave my dog at a wonderful lady's house when I am away, I thought it prudent to train my dogs to never do the counter surfing routine as I cannot control the dog sitter's environment and it would be ignorant of me to assume the dog sitter will employ meticulous management skills regarding this situation. Therefore, I trained the behavior essentially as a "leave it" and used corrections. Your thought of your dog counter surfing intentionally, in order to get the reward for getting down per your command is wise on your behalf. If you are not wanting to use correction to make the change then try using the reward before the dog puts paws on the counter. If I trained that way, I'd put many an enticing item right on the edge of the counter and lure the dog past the items, plenty of praise and then a food reward or whatever you use as the dog maintains 4 on the floor. Make it simple at first and then give the dog more of a chance to screw up, the moment the dog even thinks about going for the food on the counter, I'd give your negative verbal marker and lure the dog away with the reward. If you don't mind using corrections, it should be easy enough to create a solid off command with consequence. FWIW, one correction with enough impact is much more effective than numerous lesser corrections.
 

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Corrections are a great way to teach a dog to sneak up onto counters when no one is looking.

Management (preventing unwanted behaviors) with positive reinforcement for desirable behaviors will teach a dog to ignore food on tables even if people aren't home.
 

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Never had a dog that sneaked up onto a counter after they understood the process and rules. The 3 GSDs I have had earned full house privileges by a year and my current one by 6 months. I feed raw and would leave RMBs and other components in the sink to thaw and have yet to have my dog pick one off when I am gone and the dog could easily get to the food if she wanted. Dogs learn to make decisions and I reward handsomely for proper choices during the learning phase and not so wonderfully for improper choices once they know the desired behavior being taught. Maybe it's more a function of the breed's intelligence, beats me?
 

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It can work if you rewarded the desired behavior enough, and for dogs who take those kinds of corrections well. But for the average owner who is probably just correcting from the start, I think management and reinforcement is much more fail proof.

I have seen much more fallout than not from mistimed punishment and many people end up with dogs who learn to do things when people aren't looking (hence the entire youtube genre of 'guilty' looking dogs).
 

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they do learn the right behaviors from management.... it's much better then them learning and self rewarding from jumping on the counter because that option is available to them. My dogs were blocked from the rabbit room at first but then they got use to the rabbits being in the house (calmer) so they could come in with me and help feed and water the rabbits . to now there is no barrier to the rabbit room, the door is open, but the dogs don't go there cause they never created a habit of going in there at the start when they would of developed bad behaviors towards the rabbits..
 

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Different solutions exist, I think one has to understand the dog in front of them and deal with each situation accordingly.
 

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I've had dogs at both ends of the spectrum. I had an Irish setter that could be alone and eye level with a beef roast (tall dog, short table) and never touch it. I don't know how she reached that state. She was a 9-year-old stray when she moved in with me. But it was amazing.

Now I have Plott hound who absolutely cannot be tempted with anything left on a counter. If she grabs something, I don't blame her. I blame whoever left it there.

And it isn't just big dogs. My son's miniature dachshund will find a way to get on a table and help herself. Then she'll bark and whine because she can't figure out how to get down again. She is so brazen that she will jump up and grab cheese and sausage from a coffee table in front of a room-full of people. It seems easier to train a room-full of people than one small dog, but both are a challenge.

It's similar to having a dog that will empty trash cans. You have to learn to empty the trash before the dog does. It's all about picking your battles.
 
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