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Discussion Starter #1
For a puppy?

Is it bad to look in the paper for a puppy?
or should you find a breeder and go on a waiting list? If it's possible?

Even if all you want is a pet and don't care about the papers do you still require first shots worming vet check tests? Guarantees?

Do you ask if you can come see the pups and get a time for that day or make an appointment? I was reading the thing on here about breeders and I'm trying to get a better idea of what to look for. I've met several breeders so far but none do tests or have papers BUT they do do DNA testing but still want $400 for a pet...:confused:

I've met some that will not take a puppy back if something happens I try to stay away from them because you never know.

What do you look for when going to a breeder? What do you ask?
 

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IN GENERAL you are not going to find reputable breeders in the paper. This isn't always the case, but it's a fairly accurate generalization.

Good breeders typically have waiting lists for some or all of their pet quality puppies, and while they MAY have pups available after their waiting list has been matched up, they're not terribly likely to, and if they do, they're more likely to place those puppies by referrals from other (good) breeders than by needing to advertise in the paper.

Any breeder worth giving any money for you will give you a pup who has had up to date worming and shots and (generally) a vet check. The worming and shots may have been done at home, but a vet check is for their protection as well as your own- that health certificate that they get will prove that the puppy left their hands in good condition.

A health guarantee should be for at least 2 years. It should NOT require you to return your dog in exchange for any guarantee to kick in, and there should be a signed contract which requires you to spay/neuter your pet at an appropriate age and return the puppy to the breeder if you ever cannot keep them, even if it is many years down the road. It also specifies the health guarantee that the breeder offers. More is better. (I *do* think a replacement puppy is a reasonable guarantee. Refund of the money for your puppy is also acceptable. Expecting them to pay vet bills past the cost of the puppy is great if it is in there, but I wouldn't expect it.)

I require my puppy people to fill out a questionaire (or be interviewed) before I let them come see puppies or mom. There's no point in giving out my address to someone who I definitely feel like is a bad fit for my breed or I get a 'creepy' vibe off of.

When you say DNA testing, what do you mean? Do you mean testing for a specific disorder (like PRA or CEA or MDR1) or 'DNA Profiled'. While I know good breeders who DNA profile everything routinely, it's not really the norm. AKC only requires it on 'frequently used sires' and dams who have more than 3 (I think) litters.) It's not necessarily a good or bad sign- it's just something to clarify.

Depending on the breed you want, the very best place to start generally is the local or national breed club.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Thanks dog star that was really helpful!

I was looking for another lab and it was an english lab and she said they did DNA on the mother and the dad was akc but they couldn't register the pups?
 

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Honestly if I was looking just for a pet and wasn't intending to compete in anything or had any special requirements other then breed, I would rescue. There are many many Labs in rescue and in humane societies all over. Ours usually has at least a half dozen at any given time. A few weeks ago there were 13 Labs when I stopped in. If I were going to a breeder I wouldn't settle for one that didn't have all the health clearances done on both the mom and the dad. Why support someone who is not doing the best for the breed? Just my opinion.
 

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If I were to bother with a breeder it would HAVE to have OFA testing relivent to the breed, and the pedigree must have a history of long lifespans, health, and good temperment.

If all I wanted was a pet I would rescue though.

The only added requirements if you change your choice to a show dog would be color patters and how closly it resembles the breed standard.

If I had the money I would be willing to spend up to $2,000 for a good dog (Hawkeye cost $1,000)

Thanks dog star that was really helpful!

I was looking for another lab and it was an english lab and she said they did DNA on the mother and the dad was akc but they couldn't register the pups?
They are not AKC registerable because the Dam isn't registered.

With Labrador Retrievers it is Important for both parents to be OFA hip rated as good or excellent. You will pay more for the pup now with OFA testing but not nearly as much as you will pay in pain medication and surgery when the dog gets older and starts suffering from hip dysplasia if the parents arn't tested.

The health of a dog CANNOT be judged by just looking at it. blood work and X-rays must be done as well.
 

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Okay, for a lab? You're looking at about $800 for a well-bred dog that is a show-bred 'specialist' (but may hunt at a lower level) or probably $400-600 for a field-bred lab (who is going to be larger and significantly more energetic.)

For two examples of what reputable labs look like? Check out Legasea Labradors (here in Texas - http://legasealabs.com/) and Kelrobin Labs in Michigan (kelrobin.com)
 

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Okay, for a lab? You're looking at about $800 for a well-bred dog that is a show-bred 'specialist' (but may hunt at a lower level) or probably $400-600 for a field-bred lab (who is going to be larger and significantly more energetic.)

For two examples of what reputable labs look like? Check out Legasea Labradors (here in Texas - http://legasealabs.com/) and Kelrobin Labs in Michigan (kelrobin.com)

My doG, those are some nice Labs! I would pay for one of those Legasea pups in a heartbeat, even if I only wanted a pet. *DROOL*

To the OP: You've been given some excellent advice. Please stick to it, or rescue.
 

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If you go to a reputable breeder (depending on the breed of dog) you are looking at anywhere from $1000 on up The health testing alone is time consuming and not cheap.Then you have the breeding and Whelping cost's so expensive.Once again health guarntee depends on the breed.Most do replacement puppies or half to the full cost refunded.As for the paper and online you can find some gems if you look and know what to ask up front.I have my own website and do advertise on some online sites.I could do a puppy waiting list but for me it is not fesable since we only have puppies 1 or 2 times a year and most are kept for the ring or my program.So not everyone has a waiting list as in deposit's received far in advance.
 

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Since Labradors are so popular I would think a pet quality would be much cheaper than 1000. Hawks breeder charges $700 for her pet quality and Aussies arn't terrably common
 

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My doG, those are some nice Labs! I would pay for one of those Legasea pups in a heartbeat, even if I only wanted a pet. *DROOL*

To the OP: You've been given some excellent advice. Please stick to it, or rescue.
The Legasea dogs are AWESOME and she's a very reputable breeder. They look thick and heavy on the site. I've watched them work and they can outretrieve Kaylee any day of the week.
 

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I am taling about the area I live in they are starting at around 1000 (and this is due to the cost's of everything animal related going up here)
 

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You want a Lab puppy? Are you nuts or just a glutton for punishment? :D

Adopt. Contact a Lab Rescue organization near you. They really know the breed. And they'll have Labs of all ages. Most importantly, they can tell you the health and personality of every dog in their care.

They'll match you up with just the right dog. They'll probably have some puppies too if you're hellbent on losing your mind. :D

Look at it this way: You can pay $1000+ for a pup from a reputable breeder (probably after some time on a waiting list). Or, you can pay $500 to someone who just churns out puppies for profit with no concern for the dog, or you (no waiting list; you've got the cash, you get a dog).

Or, you can pay $150 for an x-year old Lab whose personality and health are known. Plus you'll usually get a lot of help and support from the organization. They want you to be happy and successful with their dog.
 

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:)Hello all,

I would say that I think that Inga is very on par. If all that you wish is a pet, please rescue a dog.

There are lab mix puppies in shelters or occasionally I'm sure that you can find a pure bred pup through a rescue.

However, you may want to reconsider a puppy. Many often find that adult dogs can bond just as deeply with you as a puppy.

If you are hell bent on getting a puppy (and this I totally understand) and you want to go with a breeder rather then a rescue, then go about it the "right" way.

For me personally, the whole point of paying the extra money for a puppy from a good breeder would be the benefits that you get from it:

1) health guarentee
2) pedigree
3) a friend and resources for the life of the dog (the breeder herself or himself)

Otherwise, why bother with getting a purebred dog in the first place? :)
 

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If all that you wish is a pet, please rescue a dog.

There are lab mix puppies in shelters or occasionally I'm sure that you can find a pure bred pup through a rescue.
Yes, this - see siggy :D I don't know that he's truly a lab "mix" but that's what our shelter called him - I honestly think probably because he's a darker gold than most yellow labs are. He looks like a lab, acts like a lab.. and he's still very much a puppy (he'll be 6 months this weekend).

I personally didn't want to pay $1000ish for a pet puppy from a good breeder.. and was completely unwilling to get a "bargain" pup from a BYB at any price, so our next logical choice was to look at rescues and shelters. I had a couple of local rescues basically tell me they couldn't help me since I have small kids *and* cats (they won't adopt young dogs to families with kids under 5, and all the older ones seemed to have cat issues), so we went to the shelter and found Charlie, and he's been with us nearly two weeks now without any major problems - he's great :)
 

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Discussion Starter #17
I've always wanted to rescue but I just won't do it.

I'd rather go to a breeder and know what I'm getting seeing the sire and dam and even their parents and what not.


What's wrong with lab puppies? I've already had one and we want a second one. I don't get why it's so bad?

On the adult factor though if a breeder had an adult they wanted to retire we'd be interested in that so it's not like a puppy is a total must.
 

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You want a Lab puppy? Are you nuts or just a glutton for punishment? :D

Adopt. Contact a Lab Rescue organization near you. They really know the breed. And they'll have Labs of all ages. Most importantly, they can tell you the health and personality of every dog in their care.

They'll match you up with just the right dog. They'll probably have some puppies too if you're hellbent on losing your mind. :D


If the OP wants to purchase from a breeder, that is his/her perogative. If you are happy with your rescue dog, that's awesome. But don't call someone a glutton for punishment for wanting a well bred dog & askign for help in finding a good breeder.

I have too much experience with rescue to give credability to anything you've said about rescue dogs. First, 99.9% of rescue purebreds are not from good breeders. It does happen that dogs from reputable sources will slip through the cracks on occasion, but this isn't very often. Most rescue dogs were orginally bought on impulse from a breeder that didn't screen the owner nor do any health or temperament testing on the dog's sire/dam. Labs are notorious for bad hips plus a plethora of other health concerns, just the way Beagles are. I use the Beagle analogy because due to the 100% incidence of health and/or behavioral/mental problems with rescued Beagles I've worked with, I no longer do breed rescue unless the situation is absolutely desperate & the dog has impeccable temperament. A poorly bred Beagle IS (not can be, *is*) a timebomb of genetic issues waiting to go off. The willy nilly breeding of amateurs has ruined the health of Beagles in the general population. I would assume the same applies to Labradors, who have been the #1 breed for at least a decade now. Rescue Labs are not going to be healthier than one purchased from a breeder. They can have genetic issues that have not surfaced yet, especially if buying a dog from a shelter/rescue that is under 2yrs.

When going to a reputable breeder, the OP can interact with the sire and/or dam of the pups and get a feel for the ethics & breeding philosophy of the breeder. When a family comes to my home for a pup, for instance, they have the opportunity to meet up to 3 generations of dogs in their pup's pedigree. They are shown health clearences not just for sire/dam but where it counts just as much - vertical pedigree. They have the opportunity to speak with the stud owner if I do not own him, plus a literal network of breeders who have contributed to that bloodline. That is not an exaggeration. Breeding is often times a concerted effort. Puppy buyers frequenting a reputable source are not asking for trouble, they're looking to avoid it. Probably 15-20% of families who have bought a pup from me have been to a certain area shelter run by an unscrupulous person. They do home checks, references, applications. They seem to be crossing their t's and dotting their i's. Yet they are infamous for both bringing in distemper in the area and adopting out dogs with aggressive temperaments. Not dominant dogs. Ones that have actually attacked the owners. People talk to you about dogs when you're a breeder, and I hear the sob stories. Plus can see it for myself with the rescue dogs from that place who are in the area. Again, I worked in rescue and you have to screen these people, especially the small private ones, as thoroughly as any breeder or you will be asking for trouble. I can go on and on and on with tales from rescue that would make your hair curl.

Anyway, I charge $800 for pet pups. My breed is relatively common but WELL BRED specimens are RARE. We also go in to show lines which increases my expenses. For that price the buyer gets a 3yr health guarantee, lifetime on hips/knees. They get a pup that has been extensively socialized during critical periods, that has been held and accomodated to the human touch from before they were even fully out of the birth canal :) There are points of socialization that, once closed, cannot be made up for when the dog is an adult. I know a great deal about my bloodline & each litter is bred very, very carefully so that we get as few problems as possible. I have not produced a major health or temperament issue to date, so that is another assurance the buyer has.

Advice to the OP: Look for breeders that OFA at least the hips. Tell them to give you the OFA #'s and look up in the database www.offa.org There is no excuse for no OFA'ing in a breed like Labs. Ask them about exercise induced collapse in their lines. If they have never heard about it or try to BS around it, RUN. They don't know the lesser known issues in their breed. Ask how they socialize pups. Do they use early neurological stimulation? If they do, that's a big bonus! ASK FOR REFERENCES!!! It's a major red flag if they get defensive over this question or tell you references are not necessary. You should be able to get at least 2 references from two seperate litters. Call them on the phone as well as e-mail. Just say you would like information on your pups such as what they are breeding for. This is a good one, because it will stump or cause to stumble someone who is not doing it right. Their answer does not have to be "for the show ring" or "to hunt" or "for pets". It should have something to do with how they are attempting to improve upon their kennel bloodlines and/or the breed in general.
 

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But don't call someone a glutton for punishment for wanting a well bred dog & askign for help in finding a good breeder.
I think the remark was about the insanity of raising a puppy, not the insanity of wanting a puppy from a breeder.
 

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I can only echo what the others are saying (especially about rescuing if you aren't planning on a competition dog) and what a joke some of the news paper advertisements are. We surprisingly saw an ad for an Elkhound puppy (just one?) and Norwegian was spelled horridly wrong, and they advertised the puppy as "hard to find!" and the last line was "Also, Poodles and Malteses"
 
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