[ALMAinWONDERLAND]

Hey guys, new poster here :wave:
This is Precious

She is a 5 year old Pomeranian. She is also Id say...around 12/13lbs?
I looked all over and can't find info on the larger poms "throwbacks" so Im really confused as to how much I should feed her. I think she is over weight, and she has soemthing wrong with her leg (she limps once in a while and doesnt jump onto things as if her legs are too weak)

I know I should go to the vet but I need to save up money first :redface: My dog lives with my grandma currently, because I cant keep her here with me in my current home. My grandma feeds her whatever they eat, and know matter how many times Ive told her not give her unhealthy food or large portions she continues to do so. I take my dog to my house for a few weeks at a time, so I try to care for her the correct way when shes with me.

I give her 'human food' but healthy food like rice, plain chicken, fish, nuts, veggies, etc
I dont measure the food, so not sure how much I give her exactly, but I fill the bottom layer of her bowl with food. Its alot less then what my grandma gives her. Sometimes she wont eat the food which is fine and she'll eat it later on in the day, but sometimes she seems like Im staring her :/

So can anyone help me figure out how much food to give my pom? Thanks!

 

[LilasMom]

You need to get her on a complete diet ASAP. Without the proper amount and ratios of nutrients she could get extremely sick. You should buy a very high quality commercial kibble, canned, or raw food to make sure she is getting the proper amount on nutrients.

She will not live a healthy life on the diet you are giving her. Unless you are willing to research and prepare a balanced RAW diet with the proper ratios of meat, bone, and organs you MUST get her on a commercial diet. Dogs don't need to eat things like rice, nuts, and vegetables.

With the diet she is on right now and her limp, I would suggest taking to to the vet or low cost vet as soon as possible. She may seem fine but with what you have told me about her diet she could have some nutritional deficincies (sp?).

This sounds harsh, but I would sell or pawn somethings to make money. Material objects have no value over a dog's health, sell what you can to get her the help she needs. She probably doesn't have the proper nutrients for her body to functions properly and that could by why she is weak. She needs to see a vet.

You need to tell your family that even though they think they are giving her treats and loving on her by giving her food, she is being harmed by her diet and if kept up her health will decline and you will be faced with an even larger vet bill or worse, death/euthanasia.

 

[Crantastic]

She does appear to be overweight and her coat looks kind of dull. You need to get her onto a good kibble (or raw, but kibble will be easiest for your grandmother). She can have small bits of rice, plain chicken, or fish as treats, but those should not make up her entire diet. It's really important for dogs to get the proper nutrients in their diet, and they won't get those from table scraps alone. Here are a couple of sites with reviews of different food:

http://dogfoodanalysis.com/
http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/
http://www.dogfoodproject.com/

 

[PatchworkRobot]

I'm honestly shocked that this dog has lived to be 5. I agree that you need to get her on a real dog food and you need to get this girl to a vet.

Sell some stuff if you have to and buy her a good dog food. Buy two bags, actually, so that your grandmother can keep one at her house. It'll be easier to feed this girl dog food if there is actually dog food to feed her. The bag of dog food will have feeding suggestions for a place to start.

 

[LilasMom]

I just wanted to add, today I had to sell a gold and ruby bracelet. It was one my mother gave me when I first became a "woman", if you know what I mean. It has sentimental value to me but I sold it today to pay for an emergency vet visit. I am still sad thinking about but the bracelet is worth less than my dogs health and my piece of mind. It ended up being a false alarm, but I still had to pay up and it was totally worth it. When the vets thought it was antifreeze I started counting in my head how much I could get for my tv, dvd player, camera, etc.

To be honest you don't really have time to save up. This dog needs to see a vet, I would call on Monday and ask the vet how much it is going to be walking in the door. (My e-vet had an $85 walk in fee, so definitely call and check). Try to get enough money for that and at least half more. The vet should run some tests, so you may want to sell enough stuff to get at least $200. Sounds expensive, but this is what happens when you don't feed your dog actual dog food (not trying to be harsh, it is just the facts).

Some cash ideas:
-sell electronics or jewelry at pawn shop
-sell used clothes at used clothing stores
-offer the vet any work you can (cleaning exam rooms, etc)
-take ANYTHING you have of value and see if you can sell it at a pawn shop, craigslist, etc.

 

[cshellenberger]

Just so you know, MANY nuts are TOXIC to dogs as they are too high in Phosphorus and can cause problems ranging from upset stomach to neuroligical problems and Kidney damage. you also want to watch what veggies you give her, some are high in sugar and can cause her to be more prone to ear infections and others are downright toxic (the one that comes to mind immeadiately is onions, which can damage the liver and cause kidney failure) also certain fruits are toxic, including grapes (and raisins).

Please get your dog onto a balanced kibble or do some research on a good, BALANCED raw or homecooked diet.

You NEED to get her to a vet for the leg, the longer you wait, the more damage will be done and the it will cost you significantly more money.

 

[LilasMom]

Just so you know, MANY nuts are TOXIC to dogs as they are too high in Phosphorus and can cause problems ranging from upset stomach to neuroligical problems and Kidney damage. you also want to watch what veggies you give her, some are high in sugar and can cause her to be more prone to ear infections and others are downright toxic (the one that comes to mind immeadiately is onions, which can damage the liver and cause kidney failure) also certain fruits are toxic, including grapes (and raisins).

Please get your dog onto a balanced kibble or do some research on a good, BALANCED raw or homecooked diet.

You NEED to get her to a vet for the leg, the longer you wait, the more damage will be done and the it will cost you significantly more money.

Many animals with kidney damage/failure experience weak or paralyzed legs. Do you think the continual feeding of nuts has anything to do with the leg weakness? I am no expert but I would not be surprised if they were related.

 

[cshellenberger]

It's possible, especailly if she's been fed Macadamia nuts (the most harmful) which have caused paralysis in dogs

 

[LilasMom]

That makes me so sad. I hope the vet finds out what is wrong with her leg. She is such a cute girl, I bet she would be stunning once on a proper diet.

 

[Kathyy]

I have read that macadamia nuts are toxic to dogs but I haven't ever read that any other nuts are dangerous. It is certainly nothing to do with phosphorus, there are 56 mg per ounce of macadamia nut and 52 mg per ounce of fresh egg that contains water.

I might not want to offer any, almonds still have a trace of that cyanide precursor, walnut trees have poisonous properties and raw cashews are dangerously toxic but if it is okay for us to eat these in moderation prepared properly I don't think they are dangerous for dogs. Anyway, please let me have further reading on this!

ALMAinwonderland, the diet isn't good enough. Dogs need mostly meat and mostly red meat is best. They need a lot more calcium than humans do. I think they need more fat too for good coat condition. Try offering her cooked hamburger at more like 75% meat to 25% grain and veggies. Mix in 1/2 measuring teaspoon of powdered egg shell per pound of meat prepared or you can smash up TUMS or a calcium supplement and put in the equivalent of 900 mg supplement per pound of meat. If you use the egg shell, just mix that egg in with the food. Any veggies, fruits and such need to be very well cooked or pureed to be of any use to the dog as dogs don't chew up their food. More meat and fat should help out the not so nice fur and give her more energy and support those wonky joints she seems to have.

The amount is hard to figure out. Try the amount raw feeders use, 2-4% of their body weight for a smaller dog. A 12 pound dog at its proper weight would get about 4-8 ounces a day. I don't go by the scale though, put your hands on her, ideally you can easily feel the ribs but the ribs and backbone shouldn't be sticking out. If you make a fist with your hand then if her ribs feel like your knuckles she is too thin but if the ribs feel more like the first joints of your fingers in that fist she is at a good weight.

Perhaps if you cooked up food and made it into meal sized patties your grandma could feed her better. Put them in the freezer and get 2 out every day. Homecooked dog food smells really good. I warmed it up a bit and put some water into the bowl too so Sassy got plenty of water and it looked like more food.

 

[LilasMom]

Homemade dog diets should not be cooked. I highly suggest she get a commercial diets. Homemade diets can be very hard to figure out and having the proper ratios is EXTREMELY important. I think this dog should be on a commercial food and get healthy before the OP should even consider giving a homemade diet, as that takes days and weeks of research. Your pom does not have that time, she needs to get on a complete diet ASAP.

 

[Crantastic]

I might not want to offer any, almonds still have a trace of that cyanide precursor, walnut trees have poisonous properties and raw cashews are dangerously toxic but if it is okay for us to eat these in moderation prepared properly I don't think they are dangerous for dogs. Anyway, please let me have further reading on this!

It's okay for us to have chocolate, coffee, grapes, raisins and onions in moderation, too, but all of those are toxic to dogs. I wouldn't base any of my dog feeding decisions on what humans can eat.

http://www.entirelypets.com/toxicfoods.html

 

[Kathyy]

The reasoning behind the toxicity of nuts is completely wrong on that link. Look at Nutritiondata.com or go right to USDA's site and look at the amount of phosphorus in meats and in nuts. Phosphorus is a an essential macro mineral, not something to be avoided. My dog requires about 900 mg of it a day. Nuts aren't particularly high in purines but some nuts do have higher levels of oxalates than others possibly that would be the reason they should be avoided but not the phosphorus content! And high purines or oxalates aren't the reason macadamia nuts are dangerous to dogs anyway.

It is generalizing to say all nuts are poisonous if macadamia nuts are poisonous as they are not related at all. The family macadamia nuts is from mostly produce poisonous nuts, Proteaceae. Walnuts, pecans and hickory nuts are from the Juglandaceae family. Brazil nuts are from the Lecythidaceae family. Almonds are from the Rosaceae family and I could go on. I don't think dogs should eat nuts or chocolate but I am not going to get worked up about a stolen walnut or chocolate chip. Macadamia nuts, oh yeah!

Also it is important to work with how a person wants to feed the dog. The dog may not want to eat kibble and the owner may hate the idea of feeding kibble. Commercial foods are comprised of overcooked proteins and meals combined with a mineral and vitamin supplement to make it 'complete'. Fresh foods don't need a mineral and vitamin supplement as the vitamins aren't completely destroyed by cooking foods to death. Cooking food doesn't destroy nutrients, those vitamins Bs and C survive just fine in the cooking liquid and it is easier for a lot of people to accept. I sure don't want to cook for Max, it is more work for me and not as much fun for him to eat.

This poster's problem is a human one. Her dog's caretaker isn't cooperating with feeding a good healthy diet and she doesn't have a good picture in her mind as to what a good diet for a carnivore is in the first place. A tiny dog needs a tiny amount of food and an awful lot of people have an awful time feeding that tiny amount of food. Unless she gets the dog away from the grandmother it is very unlikely the dog's health can possibly improve.

 

[ALMAinWONDERLAND]

This poster's problem is a human one. Her dog's caretaker isn't cooperating with feeding a good healthy diet and she doesn't have a good picture in her mind as to what a good diet for a carnivore is in the first place. A tiny dog needs a tiny amount of food and an awful lot of people have an awful time feeding that tiny amount of food. Unless she gets the dog away from the grandmother it is very unlikely the dog's health can possibly improve.

Thank you, it seems that everyone think Im the one feeding her horribly. I do not want her eating crappy dog food, i want her eating the food dogs would normally eat in the wild which is what i give her. I dont give her the poisonous nuts obviously, i went to a vet with my food plan for her before i started and he said it sounded good. But at that time i hadnt asked exactly how much to give, so im asking here. I give her some peanuts on occasion as she loves peanut butter and peanut butter flavored yogurt treats.
I CAN NOT DO ANYTHING ABOUT HOW MY GRANDMA CARES FOR MY DOG!!!!!!!!!!!!
Please i do not want to get into my personal life, but its really complicated and I cry each night because Im inable to keep my dog here with me. Ive tried everything to convince her how she is treating my dog is wrong, but she refuses to listen and she is the onlyone available to care for her at this time.
Her leg problems started when we started to go on longer walks so this began at a fairly early age, and at that time i was keeping her and she got good food and regular walks. It doesnt happen like often, but it does happen once in a while and it concerns me Shes not in pain or anything, im not a doctor but im thinking maybe a joint slipped out or soemthing along those lines?

The only thing i can do for now is keep her here with me as long as im allowed to, and then give her back to my grandmas. Id really appreciate it if the tone of the comments would be less confrontational. I knwo your not trying to be rude, but i think perhaps you guys do not fully understand the situation?

@LilasMom yes i have been thinking of selling but the thing is i dont really have anything. Due to some "unfortunate events" i literally only have one suitcase of clothing and toiletries but nothing else The vet i used to go to was $45 to come in then extra for other stuff but thats still to expensive as i literally have like $100 to my name and thats it. but my cousin who just moved near me said she is willing to help me pay so im looking forward to that What im hoping is the vet will cooperate. bEFORE THE VETS JUST SAID "OH SHES FAT THATS WHY HER LEG IS BAD" AND ID SAY" THIS HAPPENENED BEFORE SHE GAINED THAT WEIGHT, BUT THEY WOULD STILL INSIST THEY WERE RIGHT AND I CANT FORCE THE DOCTOR TO MAKE AN XRAY IF HE REFUSES :/ *Sorry CAps my laptop is a bit WOnky*

The whole problem is because of some bad things that have happened to me in the past year If it didnt happen id be able to care for my baby and keep her healthy. It hurst bc as of now I can not do anything about the situation



So ill ask again, WHAT IS THE AMOUNT of food i should be giving her? 1/3 cup, 1/4 cup? not sure how much
thnaks guys

 

[Goldens&Labs4Me]

My 12 lb JRT x gets about 1/2 cup of a good quality kibble daily. Sometimes she doesn't eat it all.

But, with what you are feeding, I honestly can't tell you how much she needs.

You could really get a decent bag of dog food for under $15, maybe $10--and for her size, it would last several weeks.

 

[PatchworkRobot]

I'm sorry but I don't think the whole problem is your grandmother. I have a hard time believing that the dog is getting a correct diet in your care, OP, as you don't know how much to feed her. If I was making my dog's own food I would know recipes and I would know how much was OK to feed. Feeding a dog a small (but correct) amount can be hard, yes, but your dog is HUGE so obviously whatever you're giving her is too much. We don't know your dog or her exact diet so the best anybody here can tell you is to slowly cut back the amount of food that she gets. Homemade diets can be GREAT for dogs but only if you know what you're doing.

If your grandmother is that big of a problem do some research on the issues that come out of poor feeding and obesity and sit down with your grandmother/parents to discuss the issues. Perhaps what you need is a scare tactic.

However, I still suggest a good quality kibble. It's easier and probably healthier than what she's getting now.


Edit: I know that raw food is not measured out in cups for feeding but in pounds. According to a raw food calculator a 10lb dog should be getting about .25 lbs a day so perhaps that's a good starting point? I don't know what she's getting but if it's a huge amount don't cut the amount of food by a huge amount right away. Do it slowly.

 

[Crantastic]

I give her 'human food' but healthy food like rice, plain chicken, fish, nuts, veggies, etc

Those are healthy foods (I would avoid the nuts, even if they're not poisonous; they are very high in calories), but your dog is not getting the proper nutrients from them. Dogs need a carefully-balanced diet with the right amount of protein, fat, and carbohydrates, which is different from the balance of those things that humans need. Your dog won't survive well on human food unless you do a LOT of research and learn how to properly prepare meals for your dog. It would be easier to get her on a decent kibble, which will already be balanced. Save the human food for occasional small treats.

 

[ALMAinWONDERLAND]

Yea see with me my dog acts differently. I think perhaps im giving her too little food, while my grandma gives her too much. She will bark at my grandma for more food and of course my grandma gives in. With me she knows i will not do that, she eats what i give her and she likes it.

I actually made a fake vet letter explaining all the health issues the dog will get if she continues to be fed all that bad food and still no change. The thing is, i spent alot of my money on doggie food and vitamins, and i thought she was using it but when i came to visit i saw nothing was even opened!! So now i keep that with me in my house. She had been just throwing away the stuff i have her. She says the dog refuses to eat the healthier food, and i said ok well so what you have to show her that she must eat what you give her or nothing at all, not give into her puppy eyes. The entire dynamic is different, my dog respects me but acts very bad with my grandma (and we all know why) I tell her to mix in the dog food with regular food, i do that when shes with me, but of course my grandma clamis she wont eat it. :/ I just can not wait until i move out so i can care for her myself!!!

That raw food calculator sounds right, i have little scale too! I found another calculator but it was in calories and im not sure how to measure our amounts of calories in food >.> so that weight thing really helps. I figure my dog should be 9 lbs instead of 12lbs. But i did this "test" to see if shes obese (touching the ribs, an inward curve where the waist should be) and i could feel her ribs against her skin and she has the shape. Although the waist shape isnt as curved in as it should be, so i htink maybe she isnt too fat but just 'chunky'.
thanks

 

[LilasMom]

Can you tell me exactly what you are feeding him? From the ingredients you mentioned it is not a complete diet so I am wondering if you left something out.

But I have to repeat, if you are not feeding a commercial dog food you HAVE to have a proper ratio. If there is no raw bone or organ in your dogs diet it is not balanced.

If your grandmother is not going to feed her properly, she needs to be with a caretaker that will. As harsh as it is, it is more important for the dog to be healthy than for you or your grandmother to be happy. The diet she has been on is very detrimental do his diet. Also, if your vet refuses to run an x ray or even listen to you, you need a new vet. I wouldn't listen to what this vet says about his diet if he is that unprofessional.

I am going to put this bluntly: If her dietary needs cannot be met with your grandmother you HAVE TO find a new home for her. Her health WILL continue to decline unless she gets seriously sick or ill, and you don't have the means to pay for that. She needs a home that will feed her properly and make sure she is healthy.

To answer your question, the amount to feed her depends on exactly what ingredients you are feeding her. Feed her 2% of her body weight. 80% of that needs to be meat, 10% of that needs to be RAW bone like raw chicken wings, neck, backs or any raw bone from a cornish game hen. 5% of that needs to be an organ meat besides liver, and 5% needs to be liver. If you are adding any cooked vegetables or rice, have that as around 10% of the meal.

 

[PackMomma]

i want her eating the food dogs would normally eat in the wild which is what i give her.

the 'human' food you suggested you feed her (rice, plain (cooked?) chicken, vegetables and nuts) is not would dogs would NORMALLY eat in the wild. If they were starving to death and needed something then they might knock over trash cans to find leftovers of the such to survive, but dogs or wild canine carnivores do not go out of their way to eat nuts, rice and vegetables (unless of course they are living on the streets and can't hunt wild animals). RAW chicken, yes.. but are you feeding raw? In the wild, dogs (wolves, coyotes, etc) thrive mostly on animal carcasses, meat, bones, organs, and probably raid duck or goose nests for eggs, etc. yes occasionally they eat the odd vegetarian meal but they are carnivores and need meat..

Like others have already mentioned several times, you need to get her on a better diet, ASAP! Please do not continue to feed her chicken, rice, nuts and vegetables unless you are feeding the proper portions like several people have mentioned already. Since I doubt you can feed the proper raw or home cooked portions this dog needs, I would highly recommend getting her on atleast a half-decent, affordable kibble perhaps combined with some canned food. It would be better than what you are feeding her now, atleast, by the sounds of it.

In the end, you have to do what is right for this dog - if you cannot take proper care of her, and if your only reliable caretaker cannot take proper care of her, then you need to find her another home that can. I know this sounds harsh but you are only going to do this dog more harm than good if it continues this way.

Good luck