Puppy Forum and Dog Forums banner

1 - 7 of 7 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,227 Posts
Not sure. One feeds to stool consistency usually so feed a bit and see what happens. I suspect a rabbit bony piece would look about like a chicken bony piece but the bone itself would be heavier as rabbit bone is constructed differently from bird bone. From staring at the whole prey analysis page for a couple minutes it looks like chicken and rabbit have similar amounts of calcium.
http://www.nal.usda.gov/awic/zoo/WholePreyFinal02May29.pdf
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,725 Posts
Rabbit, Domestic
- Forequarters: 22% Bone
- Loin Region ~10% Bone
- Hindquarters ~17% Bone
- Whole Rabbit, uneviscerated ~8% bone
This is what it says on Beginner's Guide to PMR I hope it helps :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
49 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
Thanks all! I am starting to think I feed too much bone! Does too much bone (mineral content) have anything to do with high pH/struvites? Speaking of struvites and urine, I thought vinegar was acidic but Lew says it's alkalizing:
"Alkalizing foods include apples, bananas, cabbage, broccoli... non-distilled vinegar (organic apple cider vinegar)...and most vegetables." http://www.b-naturals.com/newsletter/bladder-stones-crystals/ I've been using off and on Flea Free Supplement (vinegar and herbs) and Bragg ACV.

I've had two dogs with alkaline pH (8 and 9) and struvites for almost a year (no infections). Lew says it's not a concern but it sure is driving me nuts!! Any suggestions?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,725 Posts
Thanks all! I am starting to think I feed too much bone! Does too much bone (mineral content) have anything to do with high pH/struvites? Speaking of struvites and urine, I thought vinegar was acidic but Lew says it's alkalizing:
"Alkalizing foods include apples, bananas, cabbage, broccoli... non-distilled vinegar (organic apple cider vinegar)...and most vegetables." http://www.b-naturals.com/newsletter/bladder-stones-crystals/ I've been using off and on Flea Free Supplement (vinegar and herbs) and Bragg ACV.

I've had two dogs with alkaline pH (8 and 9) and struvites for almost a year (no infections). Lew says it's not a concern but it sure is driving me nuts!! Any suggestions?
Struvite crystals develop when the urine is too basic. More meat = higher acidity.

Does your dog drink a lot of water? I would maybe start encouraging him to drink more water.

And I am assuming you feed raw, so I think you're already on the right track.

Also, crystals are always present in a dog's urine. It's when the crystals get too large that it becomes a problem... so I'm not sure what you mean by your dog having crystals. Is he having cystitis (blood in urine but not due to infection)?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
49 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
Also, crystals are always present in a dog's urine. It's when the crystals get too large that it becomes a problem... so I'm not sure what you mean by your dog having crystals. Is he having cystitis (blood in urine but not due to infection)?
It's the pH that is bugging me mostly. 2 out of 3 of my dogs have had a high pH (with some struvites on the side) although no infection or other symptoms for nearly a year (April will be 1 yr). The 3rd dog had a great urinalysis with a pH of 6.5 and they all eat the same dang thing!! It boggles my mind. I've incorporated more raw food and canned food and freeze dried (rehydrated) into their diets along with some (recently) Wysong Biotic pH- to their meals, and when I make the freeze dried food and their raw food, I add some AVC but now I just read that it has an alkalizing affect. Really??
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,227 Posts
That would bother me too! How do you know there is no infection, sterile cultures been done for as long as the lab will do it? Have you taken the pH value of urine at home to see if it is always alkaline? I've never read that urine pH changes when collected by the vet or is brought from home but one never knows. Are the dogs related and it is a genetic issue? There is a medication that raises pH I am sure there is another one that might lower it.

More bone isn't good, commercial products are usually far higher in calcium and phosphorus than they need to be. If you are feeding a mix of commercial and raw you may not need to feed any bone at all. Usually phosphorus and calcium is at about 150-200% Max's requirement for commercial products so I could feed 1/3-1/2 boneless stuff and still be giving him enough of both. Struvites form from phosphorus and magnesium but it isn't too much of those minerals that is the problem, it is the basic pH of the urine that is the problem. The raw diet my dogs get is low in magnesium though and cat diets really watch the magnesium in there. Perhaps an all raw diet would be better? I really don't know though.
 
1 - 7 of 7 Posts
Top