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Discussion Starter #1
I've had this problem with my samoyeds in the past and Ilya this season.,... his behind is getting very poofy and thick. He doesn't like the comb or the rake, however, I was determined to get the dryer, dead (?) fur off his behind. After 15 minutes, and a pile of fur, it seems like I'm not getting much off and it still has the "over fluffy" look. I wanted to wait just a little bit longer before he is obviously blowing his coat before I use the furminator.
 

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On a Sammy, the best way to get the "pants" (and the rest of the dog) groomed would be a good warm bath, and HV dry. Then I would line brush and rake the coat to remove all the dead that the bath and HV didn't get out. When finished, you should be able to get a medium toothed comb thru the coat all the way to the skin, easily. If the pants were still bulky, I would use bulk thinners, up in the pants, close to the skin to remove some of the bulk, while still keeping the hair laying flat and smooth without getting that chopped up look back there.
 

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I have a different pants issue. I have some nice thinners [terrifyingly sharp they are too] so he isn't so poufy now that I snip up in the pants. The hair is wavy with pretty much no undercoat there and on his tail. The tail looks fine but the pants hair gets separated and looks uneven. I haven't been able to come up with a way to trim there that works. I have been leaving the pants about the same length as the tail and the front leg feathers as I like him to look like he doesn't get trimmed. Could they be shorter than the tail and not look trimmed?
 

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Without really seeing a pic of the dog, and the pants area, its hard to say what would be the best way to go about getting the look you want. What you are doing when you are snipping with the thinners up in the pants is debulking. Works great. However, if you debulk, and trim the length off the outside of the pants, you are going to have holes and unevenness. Its a very fine line to do both. If you are debulking too much, you will have the uneven look back there too, as you are creating holes, rather than just thinning the coat.
 

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I understand there is a fine line. I probably have crossed it although I groom only a bit at a time and often. Really it is mostly because when we walk I have to look at it. Nobody else would even notice I am sure! I try for a natural look, more like a golden retriever than a springer.

Is there any rule of thumb on balancing the dog's long hair? I keep the butt and tail about the same length and the foreleg feathers a bit shorter. The bottom fringe is about 2" long so he looks to have legs for one thing!
 

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I understand there is a fine line. I probably have crossed it although I groom only a bit at a time and often. Really it is mostly because when we walk I have to look at it. Nobody else would even notice I am sure! I try for a natural look, more like a golden retriever than a springer.

Is there any rule of thumb on balancing the dog's long hair? I keep the butt and tail about the same length and the foreleg feathers a bit shorter. The bottom fringe is about 2" long so he looks to have legs for one thing!
I like for my groom dogs to balance overall. I don't like when owners request short legs and longer bodies, and will rarely comply with that trim, as the dog looks like a bowling ball on peg legs..not becoming and not what I want for walking advertising for my salon. Sometimes it is hard to achieve a nice balance because of the way a certain dog grows coat and where it grows it/doesn't grow it. I would suggest not debulking your dog's pants for awhile, and letting the hair grow back to fill in the holes and thin spots. In the meantime to keep things neater, you can trim the length with your thinning shears. Stand your dog, and hold the tail off to one side. Take a comb and comb all the pant hair straight up. Then thinning shear the ends/length off, starting at the top, going down. Comb up again, and do it again, until you have the desired length and all is even. The thinners will give it a natural look, but is much more time consuming than straight shears.
 

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Okay, sounds like a plan. I tried with cheap thinners long ago but they were pretty much useless. With straight scissors it looked just awful but that was long ago, maybe I am better at trimming now. One can hope. I did trim his ruff with my new thinners for the first time and was very impressed at how easy it was and how natural the appearance.

Thanks!
 

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Discussion Starter #8
On a Sammy, the best way to get the "pants" (and the rest of the dog) groomed would be a good warm bath, and HV dry. Then I would line brush and rake the coat to remove all the dead that the bath and HV didn't get out. When finished, you should be able to get a medium toothed comb thru the coat all the way to the skin, easily. If the pants were still bulky, I would use bulk thinners, up in the pants, close to the skin to remove some of the bulk, while still keeping the hair laying flat and smooth without getting that chopped up look back there.
Thank you Graco22, your suggestion worked wonders! i thought I would take Ilya to a groomer however, his ears are bothering him and he just isn't agreeable with strangers so, I was able to finally coax him into a bath this weekend and comb him out afterwards. Wow, what a difference! I had brushed him before the bath to remove any loose fur and combing him afterwards removed so much more. His fur is sooooo soft though I don't think I washed his neck, head and tail areas well enough. It seems to feel like there is a lot of dead fur there.

Would it be too much to give him a bath again? I'm trying to be careful with him because he's a bit edgy with a mild ear infection. He just doesn't seem to get smelly or dirty so I've only given him a bath about 2 times a year. Is there a good way to wash the head area to avoid getting water in his ears?
 

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Thank you Graco22, your suggestion worked wonders! i thought I would take Ilya to a groomer however, his ears are bothering him and he just isn't agreeable with strangers so, I was able to finally coax him into a bath this weekend and comb him out afterwards. Wow, what a difference! I had brushed him before the bath to remove any loose fur and combing him afterwards removed so much more. His fur is sooooo soft though I don't think I washed his neck, head and tail areas well enough. It seems to feel like there is a lot of dead fur there.

Would it be too much to give him a bath again? I'm trying to be careful with him because he's a bit edgy with a mild ear infection. He just doesn't seem to get smelly or dirty so I've only given him a bath about 2 times a year. Is there a good way to wash the head area to avoid getting water in his ears?
Glad it helped you out. It would not be too much to give him another bath. Just be sure you are getting everything rinsed out thoroughly. I, personally, don't believe in the "water in the ears causes ear infections". Some vets say it does, some refute that info. I don't believe it. There are many reasons for ear infections, and a few drops or dribbles of water in the ear (that the dog shakes right out) is not the culprit of the abundance of ear infections in dogs all over the world. When you wash his head, just wash it like the rest of his body, with a tearless shampoo. Wash the head and face, and if you want to be extra careful, fold the ear over the ear canal and rinsed from the back of the ear with the sprayer..does that make sense? Pull the ear tip forward over the ear canal, and then rinse from behind. That will make the water roll off the ear, and over the canal. If he wants to shake, let him...I always wash and rinse heads first...before wetting the rest of the dog..that way, you aren't getting drenched with the body wetness...just the head..lol I think getting the head and face clean are a HUGE part of a clean dog.
 

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Max's rear is looking better as well. It doesn't stand up when brushed as it is pretty long but using the thinners going down from the hip bone bump to the hock as a line gives a more natural line than before. And these Geib Gators work really fast! I used the flea comb to remove extra undercoat and his rear looks like it belongs to the same dog as the rest of him now. That flea comb is doing wonders blending the rest of his coat as well. He doesn't look like a wavy coated PWD in a lion cut anymore.

Now his tail is bugging me. Since if I take out any undercoat it goes all thin and limp I hate doing anything more than combing it out so now the first part is all wavy and thick on top and only the very tip has the fur laying smooth and falling smooth. So now I am using that flea comb all around the base of the tail and on the top of the next half of the tail.

I got Sassy so I wouldn't have to worry about mats having had a long haired cat back when I was a kid but Max is really fun to fuss with. Glad he is a good sport about it all though.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Personally, I wish I could take Ilya to a groomers because his pants area is still a bit rough and his tail is.... sigh.... a bit hard to describe but it looks like it needs help and feels very coarse. Sheesh... I took my last Samoyed to the groomers because they did a great job with all that hair. LOL.

I'm not sure if I can get Ilya (husky) to cooperate with a groomer. I'm wondering what groomers would do with a tempermental husky? If there was only some sort of invention to hypnotize Ilya to be still and relax.
 

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Here's what i do (ex groomer) bathe and let dry without brushing, then take a matt rake and thin out the pants. then scissor upwards from the hock using the angle of the hind cannon as a guide, then round to the angle of the croup. use the angle and shape of the hindquarter to get any floufy that sticks out beyond the frontal silhouette
 
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