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:redface:

Apparently he bit another dog in the face for no apparent reason. The other dog (a Labradoodle) was not seriously hurt and won't require stitches or anything, but Hobbes was invited to not attend daycare anymore.

It's not a huge inconvenience, since he only goes once a week anyway and is fine staying home. But I'm disappointed that he has been acting like a jerk with the other dogs enough that he got kicked out. He has had minor scuffles before, but they usually involved toys, and the staff just handled it by removing toys. There was no toy this time, and they're not sure why he bit the other dog.

They advised us not to try to find another daycare either, since if Hobbes messes with the wrong dog he could get his butt kicked and then we'd have bigger problems. I'm so disappointed - he is the sweetest thing in the world with people, and usually with other dogs, but every once in awhile he gets bratty and acts mean.

The owner of the daycare said it's relatively normal behavior - some dogs just aren't good around other dogs. But is there anything I can do about it, given that I don't have any other dogs to help train him? Frankly I'm not even sure how I would go about training "be nice."

Thoughts?
 

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Since you didn't see the full interaction there's no telling what might have happened. He might have been defending himself, the other dog may have been out of line. The only way to handle it is to have a evalution done by a verterinary behaviorist to see what his 'triggers' are (under tightly controlled conditions of course). I garuantee there's SOME type of warning, posing off, ect, that occured and the staff missed it.
 

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If it makes you feel better, Lu got into a scuffle at daycare about a year ago. She took off the tip of the dog's ear and was sore for several days. She'd never had problems with dogs before- I think having so many unfamiliar dogs around just proved to be too much stimulus, and the woman supervising them wasn't paying close enough attention to stop it. Thankfully at that point Lu's separation anxiety had subsided enough that we could leave her at home, so I just stopped taking her. Haven't had an issue since.

If you want to work on correcting Hobbes, a behaviorist would be your best option.
 

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Yeah, I'm going to go out on a limb and say that the staff missed the warning signs to this. I've yet to see a daycare dog just saunter up and take a chunk out of another dog with zero warning. There's always something.

I don't know Hobbes or your previous daycare staff so I can't say whether or not a new daycare might work out. Sometimes, different staff and different settings can go a long way.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Thanks so much for your replies. I am also quite sure that there was some warning sign. It's just too bad they don't have webcams - or I'd ask if we could look thru the footage.

And Gofygure - that does help a bit, the fact that she hasn't had problems since then. Also, off-topic but whatever happened to that perfectly hilarious sig pic you used to have up of Lucy? She looked totally insane but it was such a great pic. Both of your dogs are gorgeous, btw.
 

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The dog who bites first isn't always the initiator of the fight. I've seen dogs just stare and stare until the other dog snaps, and then the humans get angry at the dog who bit. The real troublemaker was the staring dog, and their owner is going to be patching them up over and over again without ever knowing why it keeps happening.

Even if Hobbes did start it, though, it doesn't really mean much. Not every dog is going to like every other dog. Some dogs are very tolerant of other dogs, some dogs hate all other dogs, and most dogs fall somewhere in between. I'd try another day care if you want to.
 

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:redface:

Apparently he bit another dog in the face for no apparent reason. <snip>
I'm disappointed that he has been acting like a jerk with the other dogs<snip>
I promise you that there was a reason. The people may not have noticed or understood the reason, but I guarantee that in his mind he had a good and valid reason.
He's not a "jerk" ... he's a DOG. We may not always understand they why's and what's, but in a dog's world there are perfect explanations to what happened ...
 

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That sucks. I've only been taking Jubel to daycare once, sometimes twice, a week since about October and already I'd be sad if he got kicked out. Which is something I worried about when I first started taking him. He can be a little rude and obnoxious in his play but never more than a scuffle with spit and snarls exchanged as a result. At least when we used to go to the dog park he was, I don't really see how he acts at daycare but every time I've asked they say he does fine.

I agree with those above though, there was very likely signals leading up to the bite that were just missed. Don't know how many people per dog they have in each play area but if the exchange leading up to the bite was quite it's likely no one was specifically watching the two dogs at that moment. Do they have cameras at the daycare? I know mine does but it also doesn't cover the entire room. So even if they do it could have been missed on tape too.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
I promise you that there was a reason. The people may not have noticed or understood the reason, but I guarantee that in his mind he had a good and valid reason.
He's not a "jerk" ... he's a DOG. We may not always understand they why's and what's, but in a dog's world there are perfect explanations to what happened ...
I'm sure you're right - would be nice if I could read his mind so I'd know what his reason was. And you're also right that he's not a jerk. I was just being flip.
 

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Not sure what kind of dog Hobbes is, how old he is or how long he's been going to daycare but some dogs just aren't suited for long term daycare. Many, many dogs "outgrow" daycare/dog park type interactions with age or time and the environment itself can trigger dog aggression/reactivity issues in some dogs.
 

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Daycare and other large play groups (dog park, etc) are just too much for some dogs. A dog who might do great around just a few other dogs can get really overstimulated in a crowd of dogs - especially in a limited/enclosed space like most day cares are. It doesn't mean there's a "problem" except that she isn't suited for that type of play environment.

I wouldn't feel bad about it, but personally I wouldn't do daycare with her again. Some dogs just aren't suited to it. Maisy gets WAY overstimulated with more than just a few other dogs and turns into a big fat bully. It happens. *shrug*
 

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Not sure what kind of dog Hobbes is, how old he is or how long he's been going to daycare but some dogs just aren't suited for long term daycare. Many, many dogs "outgrow" daycare/dog park type interactions with age or time and the environment itself can trigger dog aggression/reactivity issues in some dogs.
He's about 2, lab/pit/GSD-ish(?) mix (honestly I don't know but that's what he looks like). He's been in daycare once a week for roughly a year, which is the same amount of time we've had him. He also sometimes gets nasty with dogs at the dog park (scuffles - nothing serious), but I've been bringing him less often, since I'm starting to feel like its safer in general to just take him on hikes where he can run around by himself.

Daycare and other large play groups (dog park, etc) are just too much for some dogs. A dog who might do great around just a few other dogs can get really overstimulated in a crowd of dogs - especially in a limited/enclosed space like most day cares are. It doesn't mean there's a "problem" except that she isn't suited for that type of play environment.

I wouldn't feel bad about it, but personally I wouldn't do daycare with her again. Some dogs just aren't suited to it. Maisy gets WAY overstimulated with more than just a few other dogs and turns into a big fat bully. It happens. *shrug*
Yeah, I'm thinking you're right. We are planning to just let him stay home instead of putting him in another daycare. We take him on hikes all over the place, and he gets long walks every day or every other day, so exercise isn't an issue. I did like the idea of socializing him more, though, which is why he was in daycare in the first place. Sigh.
 

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Yeah, I'm thinking you're right. We are planning to just let him stay home instead of putting him in another daycare. We take him on hikes all over the place, and he gets long walks every day or every other day, so exercise isn't an issue. I did like the idea of socializing him more, though, which is why he was in daycare in the first place. Sigh.
If you know enough people with dogs, you can certainly try small play dates in someone's yard or even walking together. Many dogs who are reactive in large groups do fine with 1-2 other dogs. Also if it's do-able timewise and financially, you could take some kind of class (obedience, tricks, or for-fun agility) and work on creating positive associations with being around other dogs. You don't have to give up on socializing just because you can't go to daycare. :)
 

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If you know enough people with dogs, you can certainly try small play dates in someone's yard or even walking together. Many dogs who are reactive in large groups do fine with 1-2 other dogs. Also if it's do-able timewise and financially, you could take some kind of class (obedience, tricks, or for-fun agility) and work on creating positive associations with being around other dogs. You don't have to give up on socializing just because you can't go to daycare. :)
That's true. I could set up some playdates if I can find any friends who are willing. And there is a training club here that offers for-fun agility and some other classes. I have wanted to take him there for awhile, but their website is the worst website I have EVER seen and I have been very lazy about trying to find out more information about them.
 

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I would not feel bad about it, and I would assume error on part of the staff. If he didn't really injure the other dog, it sounds like he was giving him a warning and I doubt he was handing out a warning for funsies. I've seen fights, even one with my own dogs, were no one was "doing" any thing but they WERE doing something. A fight broke out with Smalls and Shambles because Smalls hard eyed Shammy and Shammy hard eyed right back and they decided to take it outside. To most it would have probably looked like Shammy attacked her for no reason.

Maybe you can find a daycare with cameras. There is one around here I would go to if it wasn't 45 minutes away. Every thing is video taped, and you can view from your own computer. Would LOVE that.
 

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I would not feel bad about it, and I would assume error on part of the staff. If he didn't really injure the other dog, it sounds like he was giving him a warning and I doubt he was handing out a warning for funsies. I've seen fights, even one with my own dogs, were no one was "doing" any thing but they WERE doing something. A fight broke out with Smalls and Shambles because Smalls hard eyed Shammy and Shammy hard eyed right back and they decided to take it outside. To most it would have probably looked like Shammy attacked her for no reason.

Maybe you can find a daycare with cameras. There is one around here I would go to if it wasn't 45 minutes away. Every thing is video taped, and you can view from your own computer. Would LOVE that.
Yeah, that would be awesome. It would be nice to be able to keep an eye on him while he's at daycare.
 

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honestly, I would not be that worried about your dog, we have several dogs at our daycare that were booted from other daycares..and they are some of the absolute best dogs. how they got booted I have no idea, but they tend to be the most tolerant, most neutral dogs.
 

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Ozzie got kicked out of daycare in November. He had been going to that particular daycare for 2 years, and had been in a daycare setting since he was 6 months (he is 4 now). I usually would take him 2-3 times a week. The daycare staff said that he had gotten into a fight for no reason but no injuries occurred. They kenneled him for the rest of the day and said that is strike 1. I guess it happened again and he was asked not to come back. I was mortified!

There always is a reason, but unfortunately the staff wasn't able to give me one. I am not sure what brought this on, but we haven't been into a daycare setting since. I guess I am just nervous...

I would LOVE to find a daycare with good cameras. It would be better than TV and I would get to learn a lot about my dogs and how they act when I am not around. It is something I've always wondered.

What kind of setup did Hobbes daycare have? Daycares organize themselves differently; the place Ozzie was going to had big and small dogs separated into two big groups. The place I worked at was just one big group. I know of others who have small play 'groups' based on size and play style, usually 5-10 dogs.

If having him go to daycare once a week really helped you, and he seemed to like it, I would suggest going to try to find a place that breaks the dogs up into small groups. This would allow the staff to switch dogs in and out if someone wasn't getting along. I know that the one day a week I bring Tyler to daycare, it really does help me out. And I know that he loves it there and plays all day long, so it makes me feel better. I am hoping to get to a point where I am not so nervous about bringing Ozzie again, and find a place that has small play groups and cameras.
 

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Just asking. Is Hobbes neutered? Does this daycare allow intact animals to attend?

The employees missed the precious few minutes that transfered in quiet before the fight broke out.

I really think Hobbes should be the one staying and the labadoodle should have gotten the suspension notice.
 

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I would LOVE to find a daycare with good cameras. It would be better than TV and I would get to learn a lot about my dogs and how they act when I am not around. It is something I've always wondered.

What kind of setup did Hobbes daycare have? Daycares organize themselves differently; the place Ozzie was going to had big and small dogs separated into two big groups. The place I worked at was just one big group. I know of others who have small play 'groups' based on size and play style, usually 5-10 dogs.
I always thought that too, about the cameras - what fun it would be to watch. Not to mention educational. As for the daycare set-up, they organize them into play groups depending on style of play (and I assume size, at least to some extent, for safety). So the very active and rough dogs would be together and the more chill dogs would be in a separate group. I don't know how many were in each group, though?

Just asking. Is Hobbes neutered? Does this daycare allow intact animals to attend?

The employees missed the precious few minutes that transfered in quiet before the fight broke out.

I really think Hobbes should be the one staying and the labadoodle should have gotten the suspension notice.
Yeah, Hobbes is neutered. I don't know about the other dog and I don't know if unaltered dogs are allowed. I don't recall hearing a specific policy about it when we started going...but who knows?

As for Hobbes vs. the Labradoodle - Hobbes did actually bite the other dog, and not the other way around. Or at least if the other dog bit Hobbes there were no marks. Who knows who started it? I've never seen Hobbes start a fight before, so it's hard for me to believe the other dog didn't do anything wrong, but it's possible that whatever he did to piss Hobbes off was some sort of accident or something...I think. Maybe he was a puppy with bad manners. In any case, I completely understand the daycare's decision - I just don't like it.
 
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