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Discussion Starter #1
I've hit a wall with my dog training. I just don't know where to go from here. When I got him he knew how to sit and was housebroken. That was all. Since then I've taught him down and how to walk on a leash the way I want him to. Now we've hit a wall as I'm kind of out of things to teach him. We're worked on recall and his recall is great as long as there are no cats around (we're ironing that out still). He knows that if he comes to me every once in a while he'll get a hot dog and it's worth his trouble to explore that possibility. I've tried teaching him roll over, but he refuses to turn on his side. He just won't do it. I can move the treat (hot dog) back by his butt and he'll either scoot around on the ground so his head is closer to the treat or ignore it completely. He'll follow it with his head until it gets to where he'd have to turn over, then stop. I tried to teach him to shake. When I tap his paw to get him to lift it, he shifts around so he doesn't lose his balance. When I grab his paw and lift it off the ground, it's the same thing. Tried teaching him to say sorry (down position, head on the ground between paws) but although I can lure him into this position and click/treat he doesn't seem to grasp the verbal command or that this position is getting him the treat. He never offers this position to me voluntarily while training. I always have to lure him there. What else can I try to teach this dog?
 

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Is this your Bassett? Can you think of something he likes to do that you could build on?
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Is this your Bassett? Can you think of something he likes to do that you could build on?
No, this is my cocker spaniel. I've kind of given up on the hound. He's a mess and is an extremely slow learner to boot. I tried the other day to teach him to wait for the door to open and not dart out. Made him sit, then opened the door. If he moved I closed the door. My cocker spaniel grasped this within 2-3 minutes. 30 minutes later the stupid hound was looking at me going, "I'm never going to be able to go out the door if you keep slamming it in my face. WTF is wrong with you?"

The basset knows how to sit and will now wait calmly for his food. I'm content with that for now.
 

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No, this is my cocker spaniel. I've kind of given up on the hound. He's a mess and is an extremely slow learner to boot. I tried the other day to teach him to wait for the door to open and not dart out. Made him sit, then opened the door. If he moved I closed the door. My cocker spaniel grasped this within 2-3 minutes. 30 minutes later the stupid hound was looking at me going, "I'm never going to be able to go out the door if you keep slamming it in my face. WTF is wrong with you?"

The basset knows how to sit and will now wait calmly for his food. I'm content with that for now.
Maybe the cocker is a drone, doing everything you want and not thinking while the hound has figured out, if I don't listen he'll give up and I can do whatever I want - which seems to be working for him.
 

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Hard to train dogs--and even untrainable ones--are not necessarily stupid. Humans tend to assign higher intelligence to dogs that do what we tell them to do. Older dogs, who have always done as they pleased, can be a particular challenge. However, some dogs really don't have it goin' on upstairs.

The Cocker (and you) may need an occasional break from training. Sometimes, a 3-5 day layoff can cause lessons to gel for the dog. If you have hit the mental wall, start noodling around in YouTube for ideas. Your spaniel may like learning to do a handstand, or whatever.
 

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The Cocker (and you) may need an occasional break from training. Sometimes, a 3-5 day layoff can cause lessons to gel for the dog.
I've seen this happen with Wally too - and I wonder why it is that dog's brains seem to work this way.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Maybe the cocker is a drone, doing everything you want and not thinking while the hound has figured out, if I don't listen he'll give up and I can do whatever I want - which seems to be working for him.
That may well be. I often wonder if the basset is really, really dumb or really, really smart. The door thing was ridiculous though. 20-30 minutes after we started it was the same thing - he would sit, I would barely open the door and his nose was in the crack.
 

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That may well be. I often wonder if the basset is really, really dumb or really, really smart. The door thing was ridiculous though. 20-30 minutes after we started it was the same thing - he would sit, I would barely open the door and his nose was in the crack.
Too funny. Your basset is a genius!
 

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You were lumping too much for your Basset. I would have walked to the door and waited for the dog to sit, click and treat. Instead of opening the door I would have started by reaching my hand towards the door. Maybe just a movement of your hand at first. If the Basset held his sit, I would click and treat. I would do this for a couple more tries, then up the criteria VERY GRADUALLY, with plenty of breaks away from the door inbetween.
 

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Too funny. Your basset is a genius!
He's probably thinking: "Boy, some humans are dumb! Most people get the message that I'm not gonna do it, in 10 minutes or less. How'm I supposed to get through to this dope?"
 

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I had a similar problem with having to lure for everything... you want to start with shaping instead. That's how you get behaviours like paw, say sorry, roll over, etc. I got some helpful suggestions on how to bridge the gap between luring and shaping here:
http://www.dogforums.com/3-dog-training-forum/48542-getting-dog-operant.html

BTW I second PP's post about teaching your Basset to sit before the door opens. Take things in tiny increments.
 

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Hard to train dogs--and even untrainable ones--are not necessarily stupid. Humans tend to assign higher intelligence to dogs that do what we tell them to do. Older dogs, who have always done as they pleased, can be a particular challenge. However, some dogs really don't have it goin' on upstairs.

The Cocker (and you) may need an occasional break from training. Sometimes, a 3-5 day layoff can cause lessons to gel for the dog. If you have hit the mental wall, start noodling around in YouTube for ideas. Your spaniel may like learning to do a handstand, or whatever.
MM
I have stated many times that owners tell me how stupid their dogs are, it's like a broken record. The worst part is I have had some dogs that were what I call naturals that owners have also slapped the stupid phrase on them. I'm sure you know these types of dogs, the type when showing them what you would like them to do sit/stay/down/come etc etc etc. just magically they get it with a bare minimum of the "show them" program. It's these type of dogs that I wish they were paying the bill because then I could really tell the owners what I think of them (the owners that is) but alas I can't because when done I probably would not get paid.

Hulk
The whole world is out there for training because anything you are working on with your dogs can be taken to strange places to work your dogs and it will be brand new to them. I think the pamperedpups suggestion on door thing would be right direction to go with Basset. Do not give up on dog as these are the types of dogs that will make you a better dog person. Think about it the easy stuff isn't building your abilities with dogs much as anything easy is just that, easy. Not going to learn much from the easy dog. I remember your 1st thread with Basset you were befuddled and now you say you have made some upgrades on the 10 yr old. The harder it is to train a dog is what will make the dogs after that dog much easier to train. I hope that makes sense my play with words sometimes gets befuddled to me even.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
You were lumping too much for your Basset. I would have walked to the door and waited for the dog to sit, click and treat. Instead of opening the door I would have started by reaching my hand towards the door. Maybe just a movement of your hand at first. If the Basset held his sit, I would click and treat. I would do this for a couple more tries, then up the criteria VERY GRADUALLY, with plenty of breaks away from the door inbetween.
The thing is I had just worked on the cocker spaniel with the same thing and he got it very quickly. A half dozen repetitions and he was sitting there waiting patiently for the door to open. I have great difficulties adjusting from training the cocker to training the basset sometimes.
 

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Hulk
I'm sorry "that's not the thing" The thing is all dogs and all people are not created equal. Some of each can be challenging. I know after reading some of your replies etc you seem pretty serious about your dog work and trying to help others. It's all a big circle when you train a dog, the dog teaches you by it's reactions to whatever you are doing, successes or failures. You in turn can help others by telling them what worked or didn't work.
 

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That may well be. I often wonder if the basset is really, really dumb or really, really smart. The door thing was ridiculous though. 20-30 minutes after we started it was the same thing - he would sit, I would barely open the door and his nose was in the crack.
Change approach - throw the dog a knuckleball (sorry, just tired of the old "curveball" analogy)

Have the door already open, but stand between the basset and the door. If he sits, praise and let him out and do whatever you were going to do outside. Don't move until he sits. He probably will sit eventually, even if to just wait for you to move out of his way.

Do this for coming back inside also (if you want, maybe you don't care about coming back in more than going out).

See if this works. It worked for Wally during his "I ain't doin' NOTHING you tell me" phase. I know sometimes when I change my approach, Wally is like "what the **** is this here you're doing?"
 

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The thing is I had just worked on the cocker spaniel with the same thing and he got it very quickly. A half dozen repetitions and he was sitting there waiting patiently for the door to open. I have great difficulties adjusting from training the cocker to training the basset sometimes.
It doesn't matter how easy it is to train other dogs. This dog can be easy, too, but YOU need to learn to be a splitter, not a lumper.
 
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