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Discussion Starter #1

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To be honest,

It shouldn't take glurge to get you to fix your dog. If you want to breed, great. The world needs more responsible breeders- with the keyword being responsible. Talk to your breeder (You went to a reputable breeder, right?) and get him into handling classes. Start training, and start learning about your breed in a very serious manner. If you hadn't already done those things though, or you didn't go to a reputable breeder in the first place (and frankly, if you had, your puppy would either be on a show contract or a spay/neuter contract and you'd have known a head of time what you'd be doing), yes, go ahead and neuter him. But don't feel guilty about doing the right thing for your breed, or about WANTING to breed.
 

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To be honest,

It shouldn't take glurge to get you to fix your dog. If you want to breed, great. The world needs more responsible breeders- with the keyword being responsible. Talk to your breeder (You went to a reputable breeder, right?) and get him into handling classes. Start training, and start learning about your breed in a very serious manner. If you hadn't already done those things though, or you didn't go to a reputable breeder in the first place (and frankly, if you had, your puppy would either be on a show contract or a spay/neuter contract and you'd have known a head of time what you'd be doing), yes, go ahead and neuter him. But don't feel guilty about doing the right thing for your breed, or about WANTING to breed.
I agree. I was going to say the same thing.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Wow. Ok. My post was directed at the poster of this in the first place. I did not post it so that I could have people comment on my decisions to do with my puppy. I am VERY aware and have ready and watched several books. Spoken with trainers, and had long detailed conversations with my breeder.

FOR ONE:

I did come a reputable breeder.

TWO:

My first arrangement was as a companion pet. Not a show pet. Not a stud. I was giving a AKC limited registration and after SEVERAL requests by people I know I got the idea of studding him out. (Because he's so damn cute) I had decided to stud him I was in the process of getting full registration papers on him. No I never thought about showing him, because frankly I dont want a show dog. I want a friend.

THREE:

I didn't feel guilty at all. So please dont assume what you dont. The main reason I decided not to breed was because there are a lot of puppies that need homes and mine is black which could lead to black puppies and in NO way do I ever want a puppy from my Aiko to end up in the pound. So NO guilt. Just honest to god love for my baby. K?

FOUR

Not only that we are working on training very diligently and I already have him signed up for some puppy classes as soon as he is able to contact with other strange dogs per my vet.


Last of all if you dont know the whole situation a right approach to contacting someone with your feelings like this would possibly to have asked more questions, instead of blatanty assuming:
(and frankly, if you had, your puppy would either be on a show contract or a spay/neuter contract and you'd have known a head of time what you'd be doing.)
You would know what the real story is.

So because I feel so insulted right now and insulted for my baby. I'm going to end this before I get mean. Your post really upset me. It usually takes quite a bit to do so.
 

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All I have to say is - man that little guy Aiko is just adorable!!

<goes into closet and dusts off dognapper suit...> didn't think I was ever gonna need this again...but.... I just wanna squish that little puppy!! He'd look so cute in a lion clip....
 

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Discussion Starter #7
All I have to say is - man that little guy Aiko is just adorable!!

<goes into closet and dusts off dognapper suit...> didn't think I was ever gonna need this again...but.... I just wanna squish that little puppy!! He'd look so cute in a lion clip....
lol. He's got a really cute little personality too... as long as I can curb his unhappiness at being picked up by the kids :p they want to love on him toooo.
 

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beautiful beautiful beautiful story! brought tears to my eyes

oh and by the way.. the Black dog thing (black does not getting adopted) applies very RARELY to small dogs, especially purebred poms. its mostly just about large black dogs..
and If you have it in your puppy contract that if they can't keep the pup, the puppy RETURNS TO YOU. then none of his puppies will ever end up in a shelter..
just screen homes well, and find people/familes that you love and trust.
 

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I just wanted to add my 2 cents. None of what I say is aimed at anyone in particular.

Dogs do not need any new BYBs. If a person does not have any experience in what to look for in terms of dog health or structure or if they have not researched a breed upon which they wish to concentrate, then he or she does not need to be breeding. I don't care how well-intentioned that person is or how much s/he loves dogs or how cute Mr. Buttons and Miss Tootie are--the dogs need to be spayed and neutered in their own turn and the well-intentioned individual needs to either do something else to enjoy their pets or they need to do their research, find a mentor, determine if Buttons and Tootie are worthy of passing on their genes, do the appropriate testing, and ONLY then should they even consider breeding their first litter.

In my opinion, essays like the "Sam" thing do more harm than good. They are little more than strong emotional appeals that put the blame on the familiar scapegoat: breeders. In truth, while breeders do play their part in the shelter dog game, reputable and responsible breeders play a very small part indeed. The true blame depends on the owners of these dogs (or owners of their ancestors, if they spring from feral dogs); it is the owner, not the breeder (in most cases) that dumped the puppies or dogs on the street or in the shelter, making them other people's problems.

To breed or not to breed is a personal decision based on introspection and research. I have some lovely TFT puppies not four feet away from me who are fat and happy and just discovering their legs. As I write this, they all have homes and they all have a home to which to return if those homes do not work out. I feel no guilt for bringing them into the world or for asking for real money for them when I sell them (not rehome, not adopt out, but SELL), since I know that the time and effort and investment that I have put into them and into their parents before them makes them worth it. I also know that "to breed or buy" does NOT mean that "a shelter dog will die," since the people who are on my waiting list are willing to get a shelter dog in addition to the TFT, if they have room or the spirit moves them, but their intention has long been to get a TFT.

I dislike arguments that are based on emotional appeals if they are made on emotional appeals alone, no matter which side is making those appeals. I think the OP made a good decision, even if that decision may have been made for the wrong reason. I hope, though, that the OP will go ahead and look into reasoning that is not based on emotion to support that decision and, if in the future she wants to get into the dog fancy and breed dogs, that she examines the facts and does her research and makes her ultimate decision based on reason and not on emotional appeals.

Btw, Jeannie, I think Aiko is a doll. Good luck with him, no matter what you decide to do.
 

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Discussion Starter #11 (Edited)
I'm not sure why you found Dogstar's post insulting. Perhaps read it over.
I've read it three times. I'm still insulted. Maybe read my post over and you see why I am insulted.

I'm sorry if I am coming off as rude. It's not my intention. I'm really not like that. However... its my "mommy rage" kicking in.


*BEGIN RANT*

I am curious as to why when new people post (I've read HUNDREDS of posts in the past couple of days here) one the FIRST things people automatically jump on is... "well a GOOD Breeder would..." How can anyone else NOT find that insulting?!

MY PUPPY IS FROM A REPUTABLE BREEDER. OKAY?! CAN WE STOP QUESTIONING THIS?!
How do I know this? She's been breeding from years, her dogs are all EXTREMELY well behaved, and have wonderful temperments, NO diseases. She's a dog trainer as well. Her facilities are VERY nice, clean and spacious. She will only give her puppies away to good people.

*END RANT*


Ok. . . .
 

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Jeannie, I guess the thing is that you got a dog on limited registration and a neuter agreement, and you decided to follow through on your contract and neuter him anyway. I'm very glad of that, regardless of WHY you decided, because you had signed a contract, presumably a legally binding one, and I am a big fan of people actually DOING the things they have said they will. And I imagine your breeder would have been FURIOUS.

You had another option though, and that's what I'm trying ot make you see. You COULD have talked to your breeder, said "Hey, I know I bought him as a pet but I think he is REALLY nice, can I get you to evaluate him and would you consider letting me take him into the show ring and maybe breed him down the road?" Most breeders will welcome folks who want to get into the sport and will honestly evaluate the pup for you. Maybe they'll not be comfortable putting the pup on full registration without a co-ownership, but you can see what that would entail. My point is that wanting to breed does not make you a bad person, and that you should fully evaluate it if you think you might want to. Do it right, and you have absolutely NOTHING to feel guilty about.

Sentimentalism is one of the BIGGEST weapons that's used against reputable dog breeders in this country. "Don't buy while shelter dogs die!" is a really potent slogan,and it's designed to tug at your heart strings. But I'd strongly suspect that you at least LOOKED for Shiba Inu puppies in your local shelter and found no great number of them, or you would have adopted one. Heck, even Shiba adults aren't exactly common, although there's certainly a larger number in rescue than some comparatively rare breeds, probably because the puppy mills cashed in early on them- they're relatively small dogs with decent sied litters and INCREDIBLY appealing as puppies. (Breed rescue seems to snag most of the purebreds, though I see some dogs labeled shiba mixes locally- am not enough of a breed expert to be able to tell, although most of them look very much generic yellow spitz to me, and could just as easily be a Eskie or large Pom mixed with something smooth-coated.)

You should make your decision based on the facts- that you signed a neuter agreement and do not, at this time, wish to take on the responsibility of breeding a litter properly. There's nothing wrong with that. Neutering for that reason is admirable. But if your primary reason for neutering is sentiment ("Oh, the babies dying in shelters"), I can't really give you any pats on the back for that. The contract alone should have been enough. If that's what it took for you to realize that you needed to be an ethical person and follow the contract you signed, fine. But your own conscience and common sense should have kicked in before that point.
 

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Discussion Starter #13 (Edited)
Jeannie, I guess the thing is that you got a dog on limited registration and a neuter agreement, and you decided to follow through on your contract and neuter him anyway. I'm very glad of that, regardless of WHY you decided, because you had signed a contract, presumably a legally binding one, and I am a big fan of people actually DOING the things they have said they will. And I imagine your breeder would have been FURIOUS.
I'm right there with you as well on that I am a big fan of people actually DOING what they say they will. I had planned from number one to neuter him. My breeder had told me originally that he was good for either. I chose a companion over a stud. It wasn't until the comments I had flooding in about him, that I decided I was going to breed him.

You had another option though, and that's what I'm trying to make you see. You COULD have talked to your breeder, said "Hey, I know I bought him as a pet but I think he is REALLY nice, can I get you to evaluate him and would you consider letting me take him into the show ring and maybe breed him down the road?" Most breeders will welcome folks who want to get into the sport and will honestly evaluate the pup for you. Maybe they'll not be comfortable putting the pup on full registration without a co-ownership, but you can see what that would entail. My point is that wanting to breed does not make you a bad person, and that you should fully evaluate it if you think you might want to. Do it right, and you have absolutely NOTHING to feel guilty about.
I don't feel guilty about thinking about wanting to breed him. I didn't choose to NOT breed him solely based on the article. However what that article did make me think... "there is no dire need for puppies in this world. Why risk Aiko changing and being less of my companion so that he can stud, yea I will get cute puppies (and drive my husband crazy) and not to mention all the other things....". My breeder herself told me that he would less likely be my companion if I did stud him. At first I overlooked it. Who can resist little pom puppies? All that article did was make me think... which do I want more. Puppies or my best friend. I chose my best friend. There is nothing wrong with someone who does chose to breed. More power to them. It's just not for me. Especially at the cost of losing my best friend. I am well aware of my options and did INFACT speak with the breeder about studding him. My breeder was more than ok with it and was more than willing to offer me a full registration.

Sentimentalism is one of the BIGGEST weapons that's used against reputable dog breeders in this country. "Don't buy while shelter dogs die!" is a really potent slogan,and it's designed to tug at your heart strings. But I'd strongly suspect that you at least LOOKED for Shiba Inu puppies in your local shelter and found no great number of them, or you would have adopted one. Heck, even Shiba adults aren't exactly common, although there's certainly a larger number in rescue than some comparatively rare breeds, probably because the puppy mills cashed in early on them- they're relatively small dogs with decent sied litters and INCREDIBLY appealing as puppies. (Breed rescue seems to snag most of the purebreds, though I see some dogs labeled shiba mixes locally- am not enough of a breed expert to be able to tell, although most of them look very much generic yellow spitz to me, and could just as easily be a Eskie or large Pom mixed with something smooth-coated.)
And yes, I did check the local shelters, for puppies that I would like. I would have preferred to rescue. However you're correct there weren't any. And that's ok. I would prefer that there aren't little puppies in need of homes. In a perfect world there shouldn't be. Breeders do get a tough rap. Hearing these stories, and seeing the "propaganda" doesn't persuade me from purchasing through as breeder as you can already see.

You should make your decision based on the facts- that you signed a neuter agreement and do not, at this time, wish to take on the responsibility of breeding a litter properly. There's nothing wrong with that. Neutering for that reason is admirable. But if your primary reason for neutering is sentiment ("Oh, the babies dying in shelters"), I can't really give you any pats on the back for that. The contract alone should have been enough. If that's what it took for you to realize that you needed to be an ethical person and follow the contract you signed, fine. But your own conscience and common sense should have kicked in before that point.
I didn't ask for any pats on the back I originally posted to thank the original person who posted that in these forums, not to DEBATE this, or to have someone come in and insult my ethics, my conscience, and my common sense. As I stated above I didn't decide to neuter him specifically because "puppies in the shelters" but mainly because I didn’t want to lose a best friend for the opportunity of puppies especially when we aren't in dire need of puppies. Why take the risk? It’s not worth it for me. So my conscience and common sense are well in tact, thank you very much, and if I had decided to stud him regardless I would have been "responsible".

The contract alone should have been enough. If that's what it took for you to realize that you needed to be an ethical person and follow the contract you signed, fine.
You know little about me and my situation, my conscience and my common sense, oh, and lets not forget about my ethics. So before you decided to judge me “Victim who fell for the idiot propaganda and not breed her dog” with your pessimism let me remind you, that you know so and only with what I've provided you. Which I add, is not enough for you to pass judgment on neither my ethics nor my common sense.

Common courtesy would have been to reserve your judgment about an unknown person over the internet due to LACK of FACTS.

Thank you and have a great day :)

EDIT: I should know better than getting all upset of a post made by an unknown person over the internet with little to no knowledge of me. However I'm stuck at work on a Saturday and I find myself to be a little angry and I apologize for taking it out in here. Next time, I shall ignore the ignorance and leave it at that.
 

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SweetJeannie, you need to relax a little. There is only one person going off on a tear here and I'm afraid that it's not me. I'm sorry if I offended you; I did not mean to do so if I did.

I did want to add one thing, however. I have three intact males (two of whom are being neutered no later than next summer). They have never stopped being my companions; even when I have females in heat here the males are distracted but still cuddle and are willing to train, go for walks, etc.

I'll close by repeating part of what I said: it is never a good thing to make decisions based on emotions when emotions are the sole basis for those decisions. It seems as though you used reason and responsibility to make your decision, as well as emotion. I hope so, since we dog owners are facing a lot of legislation and other risks based on the emotions that animal rights activists can stir up in the non-doggy public.
 

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instead of my original plan to stud him out.

If that had come from one of my puppy buyers that signed my contract, I'd be very upset, and would probably think rather questionable thoughts about that person.

Oh, and by the way, most stud dogs make GREAT pets as well. :p My competition dog was bred and it didn't change him at all, even in the ring.
 

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Discussion Starter #16 (Edited)
Txcollies-Yes I stated I was going to stud him out. I had stated that it was my original decision because it was my decision before I decided not to. I didn't feel the need that I had to inform you guys I purchased him before as a companion with a limited registration because I had already ok'd it with the breeder and was in the process of getting a full registration on him. I stated that later as support in my chosing not to neuter him. However whichever route I chose it would have been fully supported with no hard feelings from my breeder. We became good friends during the two months waiting for my baby.

LoupGarouTFTs I was not at all offended by anything written by you. I felt that you stated your opinion clearly and carefully and without making any judgements aimed at one person, and that I appreciate.

As far as stud dogs making great pets, my breeder had mentioned that her main stud dog had changed afterwards (not to mention the marking of territory issue). She didn't say ALL stud dogs do, however for me it is still a risk!

Lol: As far as calming down and relaxing ... I'm trying. It's almost 5:00 and I can go home to Aiko! God.. I can be such a bitch when I am away from my little puppy. Anyone else feel that way? You want to see your doggies so bad you just angry because you cant? Maybe thats my problem. I usually dont fly off like this... I WANT MY BABY.

Edit#2: Oh... and it's probably because I'm tired and its Saturday. Wish my co-worker was back from vacation.... so I didn't have to cover her shift too!
 
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