[Tmoney160]

My mom is fostering and cosidering adopting the sweetest puppy from a local rescue. He's about 5 months old and is believed to be a lab/hound mix. Of 9 other litter mates, he and one other sibling have an odd, unsteady gait. My guess is severe hip dysplasia, but am wondering if other more seasoned eyes see something else? He doesn't seem to have issues with balance - he doesn't sway standing still, doesn't have a head tilt. He also has a TERRIBLE time on my parents' vinyl floors (we just purchased some traction socks to help until we get him sorted out). He moves much better outside in the grass, but here's what we're dealing with:

He'll be going to the vet for a full workup, but was wondering if there's anything specific we should ask about. The vet which the rescue uses initially thought it could be a bacterial infection affecting his neuro system and did bloodwork, which came back clean. His condition isn't changing rapidly in one direction or the other in the week my mom has known/kept him.

Any suggestions or advice are welcome!

 

[LeoRose]

That is odd. Has the vet considered the possibility of congenital vestibular disease? This is some info about it. Vestibular Disease in Dogs | EMBRACE

 

[3GSD4IPO]

This age is far too soon to diagnose Hip Dysplasia or to intervene with surgery if, in fact, it is an issue (this is direct quote from my vet). The dog must be physically mature enough to diagnose through x ray.

Yes, he certainly moves oddly for a puppy and he may have a neurological issue. I would keep him OFF slippery surfaces and be sure he is getting a balanced all life stages diet (NOT PUPPY FOOD as it can be too rich and cause excessively fast growth).

Good luck and do let us know what you find out. He sure looks like a happy puppy!

 

[DaySleepers]

@3GSD4IPO You've said this a couple times now. You may want to read up on Juvenile Pubic Symphysiodesis, which is done between 10 and 18 weeks on dogs showing abnormal joint laxity - a fairly accurate predictor that a puppy will develop hip dysplasia - or Double or Triple Pelvic Osteotomy, which is done between 8 and 10 months on pups diagnosed with hip dysplasia but showing no arthritic changes. Both procedures are highly successful in improving lifelong hip function and comfort, and cannot be done on mature dogs. The American College of Veterinary Surgeons even notes that some young dogs are NOT candidates for any Pelvic Osteotomy because their hips are destroyed by 6 months. You can read the details here. Details are under the 'Diagnostics' and 'Treatment' tabs.

It's true that for less severe dysplasia cases you often can't get an accurate picture until maturity, but for severe cases it can and 100% should be diagnosed as soon as possible so that there are as many options for intervention as possible.

 

[3GSD4IPO]

@3GSD4IPO You've said this a couple times now. You may want to read up on Juvenile Pubic Symphysiodesis, which is done between 10 and 18 weeks on dogs showing abnormal joint laxity - a fairly accurate predictor that a puppy will develop hip dysplasia - or Double or Triple Pelvic Osteotomy, which is done between 8 and 10 months on pups diagnosed with hip dysplasia but showing no arthritic changes. Both procedures are highly successful in improving lifelong hip function and comfort, and cannot be done on mature dogs. The American College of Veterinary Surgeons even notes that some young dogs are NOT candidates for any Pelvic Osteotomy because their hips are destroyed by 6 months. You can read the details here. Details are under the 'Diagnostics' and 'Treatment' tabs.

It's true that for less severe dysplasia cases you often can't get an accurate picture until maturity, but for severe cases it can and 100% should be diagnosed as soon as possible so that there are as many options for intervention as possible.

How common is it? That is the bigger question......

 

[DaySleepers]

How common is puppy strangles? A liver shunt? Ectopic ureter? Vogt-Koyanagi-Harada Syndrome? I don't care how rare a disease or deformity/defect is, I for one am still going to look for a diagnosis and treatment when a dog's showing symptoms.

I'm not saying all puppies need to be screened for hip dysplasia, obviously, or that that's what this puppy has going on. But a puppy that is showing obvious symptoms of hip problems needs to have it investigated, because delaying treatment may mean forfeiting that dog's best chances of getting effective, lifelong relief. In worst case scenarios, delaying diagnosis and treatment could even mean euthanasia because, again, the American College of Veterinary Surgeons specifically note there are cases where the hips are entirely destroyed by six months.

This isn't someone looking to determine whether their puppy has hips that aren't great and might cause issues 3, 5, 10 years down the line. This isn't someone wondering if their dog is suitable for sport, work, or breeding. This is someone with an animal showing abnormal movement and hind end weakness as a growing baby, and that needs to be addressed now. Pretending hip dysplasia isn't one of the major causes of hip problems, especially in larger dog, regardless of age isn't doing anyone any favors. At worst, insisting on a public forum that it's so very rare that it might as well not exist in growing puppies may prevent someone from getting the diagnostics and help their pup really needs.

 

[DaySleepers]

And the question isn't really how common is hip dysplasia in puppies. We know hip dysplasia is depressingly common in adults - the real question is how many of those severe adult cases could've been caught in puppyhood and treated earlier with techniques that offer a higher rate of success if dog owners and veterinarians were more sensitive to early signs of HD? If there wasn't an attitude that it's not worth looking at a dog's hips until they're at least two, even if we see signs of lameness, discomfort, or abnormal movement? Based on what I've read (and I am in no way claiming to be an expert here), I bet it's a lot more than we're catching now.

 

[3GSD4IPO]

I did not disagree. I asked how common it is. That is all. On a forum like this uncommon conditions DO show up because of all the traffic. This puppy may very well be one of those with Juvenile Pubic Symphysiodesis.

I am still wondering how common it is. The reason to ask that question is that uncommon conditions are often missed or misdiagnosed by veterinarians who only saw a rare condition in Vet School and not in practice. If the condition is rare, the puppy owner might want to have the puppy evaluated at a Veterinary College.

 

[DaySleepers]

Oh boy.

I'm disappointed, if not especially surprised, that you didn't bother to check out the link I provided. Perhaps my original post was confusing, and for that I apologize. I'll try to keep this straightforward.

Juvenile Pubic Symphysiodesis (JPS) is a minimally invasive surgical procedure that can only be done on puppies between 10 and 18 weeks of age. It's done because those puppies, at such a young age, are showing abnormal hip development (specifically joint laxity) that is a very strong indicator that they will develop severe hip dysplasia. The surgery has repeatedly shown to produce extremely good, lifelong results of preventing or reducing hip dysplasia symptoms compared to dogs showing the same joint laxity as young puppies but have no intervention (yes, there have been studies). Often the results of this surgery are far superior to the results of those operations available to mature dogs diagnosed with severe hip dysplasia.

Double or Triple Pelvic Osteotomy (DPO or TPO) are two variations of the same surgical procedure for hip dysplasia that is more effective the younger it's done - typically between 5 and 8 months of age. While it's newer than JPS, it also shows generally better results in preventing or minimizing hip dysplasia symptoms than operations available to mature adult dogs. Unfortunately, some puppies have such destroyed, arthritic hips by 5 months old that this operation isn't an option for them. Good thing there's a way to diagnose and treat hip dysplasia when they're even younger, huh?

I've always been talking about hip dysplasia. Warning signs of severe hip dysplasia can be detected much, much, much earlier than 2 years old. The best surgeries we have to actually prevent hip dysplasia symptoms can only be performed on dogs under 2 years old. Please stop telling people that they shouldn't bother getting their puppies checked for the depressingly common condition of severe hip dysplasia until they're at least 2 years old, because by then it's too late for many dogs who have the misfortune to land at the worst end of the hip dysplasia spectrum.

 

[3GSD4IPO]

I DID read the link. I still wonder how common it is. That is all.

Absolutely a person should ask the question of their vet but if the condition is very uncommon their vet may not be all that helpful or knowledgeable.

If a dog needs surgery they should get it. If they don't they should not. I am not disagreeing.

 

[DaySleepers]

I'm very confused. Canine hip dysplasia is the condition we're talking about, and it's very common? According to this 2017 study, it's at about 15.56% of tested dogs in Canada and the USA. Having such severe hip dysplasia that the joints are destroyed by 5 months old is less common, but when a puppy is showing problems with their hips they need to get diagnostics done.

A veterinary professional that knows how to detect hip joint laxity can determine whether a puppy is likely to develop severe hip dysplasia as early as 10 weeks. This is important, because the two surgical techniques I keep mentioning - Juvenile Pubic Symphysiodesis and Double or Triple Pelvic Osteotomy - can only be done on growing puppies, but are also the best preventative treatments available to dogs with severe dysplasia. Waiting until they're two years old to even consider hip dysplasia is waiting too long for a dog showing symptoms of abnormal hip movement or pain.

 

[storyist]

If everything else is eliminated and hip dysplasia is still the number 1 suspect, you could see if there's Penn Hip testing available in your area. Do some research, but from memory puppies as young as 8 weeks can be tested that way.

 

[3GSD4IPO]

I'm very confused. Canine hip dysplasia is the condition we're talking about, and it's very common? According to this 2017 study, it's at about 15.56% of tested dogs in Canada and the USA. Having such severe hip dysplasia that the joints are destroyed by 5 months old is less common, but when a puppy is showing problems with their hips they need to get diagnostics done.

A veterinary professional that knows how to detect hip joint laxity can determine whether a puppy is likely to develop severe hip dysplasia as early as 10 weeks. This is important, because the two surgical techniques I keep mentioning - Juvenile Pubic Symphysiodesis and Double or Triple Pelvic Osteotomy - can only be done on growing puppies, but are also the best preventative treatments available to dogs with severe dysplasia. Waiting until they're two years old to even consider hip dysplasia is waiting too long for a dog showing symptoms of abnormal hip movement or pain.

I agree that Hip Dysplasia is very common but is this particular form very common and if not will a vet diagnose it correctly. How common is Juvenile Pubic Symphysiodesis as a subset of Hip Dysplasia?

Sort of like constipation in a baby is pretty common but Hirschsprung's disease which presents as constipation is very rare (and requires surgery).
..
I am sorry if I was not clear.

 

[DaySleepers]

...okay, one more time. Juvenile Pubic Symphysiodesis is not a medical condition. It is a surgical procedure. Only performed on puppies between 10 and 18 weeks who are determined to be very likely to develop severe hip dysplasia, because they are already showing detectable warning signs.

 

[LeoRose]

A quick consult with Dr. Google brings up lots of info about JPS. Juvenile Pubic Symphysiodesis - Google Search

This is from one of the articles:

"Patient selection

Patient age and severity of CHD at the time JPS is performed is critical to a successful outcome. Almost all beneficial effects are eliminated in dogs with a distraction index (DI)>0.7, or if the procedure is performed after about 24 weeks of age. Optimal age for JPS is probably around 12-16 weeks of age, so determining if a dog is an appropriate candidate can be difficult. Most dogs that are the best candidates do NOT have existing clinical signs, so some test for laxity is required. In general, a puppy that has a positive Ortolani sign and/or a DI of >0.4 is a reasonable candidate."

The optimal age is mentioned to be 12 to 16 weeks of age. That translates to 3 to 4 months. Since the optimal age for the procedure is so young, it is obvious that there are puppies who are already dysplastic at that age.

Concerning the puppy in the OP's video, I'm still leaning towards a neurological cause, rather than HD. I do wish they would come back and give us an update.

 

[storyist]

Concerning the puppy in the OP's video, I'm still leaning towards a neurological cause, rather than HD. I do wish they would come back and give us an update.

It didn't look like HD to me either, but then I've never seen it in one so young, so what do I know. I hope they have got a diagnosis by now and agree it would be nice to hear back about it.

 

[DaySleepers]

Thank you, @LeoRose. I also am not sure that HD is what's going on here, but I only wanted to point out that it needs to be on the list of things to investigate when a puppy is showing issues with their hip/pelvic area. The claim that HD cannot be diagnosed or treated before two years old is just plain incorrect, especially when some of the best surgical HD dysplasia treatments can only be performed on growing puppies at specific developmental stages. I don't know where the confusion has come from.

Anyway, I apologize for the derailment, and hope little Mikey has gotten some answers!