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There are professional ones out there that wold NEVER publish those sorts of disgusting practices
LOL, they only wouldn't PUBLISH those practices? ;) :D I know what you mean. The wording just struck me as funny.

Seriously, though, what percentage of the mass breeders (USDA inspected or not) do you think could be described as using reasonably humane methods?
 

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Marie, for YOU I'd make an exception, LOL!!! What could be better than a PBGV and a Beagle AROOOOOing their heads off together!? :D But alas, for Miss Heidi's last litter, the poor pet people are going to have to wait it out ... They are not happy about it, either, haha! This is definitely going to be the best litter ever bred here <G> Might even get me some red & white puppers!!!I can't resist a SQUEEEEEEE!!!!!!
Doesn't have to be a puppy, you may someday have a friend for Boone that's already through the puppy stage...Friar Tuck can come here, that work for you?? <g>
 

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We ALL care if there are dogs in situations where they are likely to be abused. However, consider that the animal rights fraction that has largely put out the anti "puppy mill" campaign, views breeding as abuse. Not overbreeding - BREEDING. One litter, one pup, that's too much to them. As a breeder who is proud to have genetically sound, hardy dogs, I can tell you from experience that be that as it may, a bitch's heat cycle and ability to remain in whelp are fragile things. Puppies are fragile things. Even the slightest problem with feed can be the ruination of a healthy bitch's heat cycle. Puppies who are not cared for properly or who are born and nursing on a bitch who is in poor physical condition will not survive or will become chronically sickly. Pre natal nutrition/balance is as important to pups as it is to human babies. Despite starting with healthy dogs, as I said, puppies are fragile and need the best of care to survive. Any breeder who refrains from feeding the best, handling the pups, and keeping the bitches mentally and physically fit will not have healthy pups, nor will they even have bitches who cycle in some cases.

Another point is that I have 7 breeding dog but don't bother with the Vet for 99% of the time, save for real emergencies. Commercial breeders don't either - maybe if the Vets coming out of Vet school were more breeder friendly and less AR minded we might be happy to spend the extra $, but Vets have done an excellent job at pushing breeders away.
Urban I agree with everything posted above about pregnancy,whelping and rearing and even more so for myself because I have Bostons which 95% of the time require a c-section just to deliver and have tricky times breeding and carrying to term ect...As for the AR people yes they are anti ANY breeding and from the recent static's on PETA it seems they kill way more shelter dog then they ever re-home.So it seem's like people stated before PETA doesn't want any companion pets out there.

Also I definitely agree on you about the vet's out there some of the attitude's I have received made me never go back to them.But with our dogs being so tricky to deliver we have to have a vet so it has been a long search to find a practice where they value my knowledge and my dogs and try to give them the best care (not like a E-vet that we went to who let 2 of my pups die in 5 mins and had the nerve to tell me oh well be happy with the 4 you have left...the nerve then I had to put another down 5 days later because of there incompetence in the delivery room).

I have to ask what or how many dogs classifies you as a commercial vs hobby breeder ?...
 

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LOL, they only wouldn't PUBLISH those practices? ;) :D I know what you mean. The wording just struck me as funny.

Seriously, though, what percentage of the mass breeders (USDA inspected or not) do you think could be described as using reasonably humane methods?

No, I have seen the actual advertisements in commercial breeder forums or adverts that were privitazed - meaning only viewable to other commercial breeders or brokers. Dogs that would go to auction if not sold privately. Healthy dogs. Again, I am 100% sure there are disgustingly kept dogs in the kennels of some commercial or USDA breeders (fyi - commercial/USDA is NOT interchangable. you can be commercial w/o being USDA if you don't sell to stores).

If you ask me what percentage of LICENSED USDA breeders are operating in squalid conditions, I'd have to say maybe 5-10% liberally. I am sorry, but when you know even a small percentage of the nuances of regulations that USDA breeders must follow, it is astounding. This may strike you as odd, but in many states USDA or even state licensed breeders are required to have written exercise and emergency plans for their kennel. Each dog must be in it's marked pen, however, at all times, so even has to be marked or microchipped in the exercise yard. No porus surfaces so no woor, fabrics, etc. are allowed. This is why above ground kennels are used so frequently. There is an insane amount of cleaning, sanitizing going on.

And I am sorry, but MOST commercial breeders are just breeders who decided to take their passion of breeding dogs and turn it into a business venture. It's not difficult. I can turn a profit with one or two litters per year. They are dog lovers who decided to raise dogs for a living. This is their business so they are around 24/7. They are there to socialize dogs daily and kennel help for extra cleaning and socializing. You cannot run a USDA kennel with out some help. You would fail your inspections, then therefore would not be USDA. The dirty filth holes you see most times on the news are NOT licensed, and usually for a reason! Some had licenses revoked. Others are got in over their head, and are not cruel people but need to get their head out of their butts because they ARE harming the dogs with their inaction. It's very easy to get overwhelmed. I am sure there are people in this who are just bad apples, maybe even abusing the dogs, but even the people who are overwhelmed are only human and have just as much good in them as bad. They are not bad people or animal abusers, they need help in a few cases and in many others they need the law to step in and remove the dogs for the good of everyone involved.
 

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Did you even look at the links I posted? I find it hard to believe that the rescues can be so inundated with horribly abused puppymill dogs if only 5%-10% of puppymills are inhumane. Where do all those mistreated purebred dogs come from?
 

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BYBs, mostly - commercially bred dogs only make up 20% (high estimate) of the intentionally bred dogs in this country (breeders who compete make up about 10% by comparison.) The vast majority of intentionally bred dogs (and I"m counting people who 'well, we wanted to breed her someday and she just got pregnant" in that number, because that IS intentional, if extremely irresponsible.) are from BYBs, a significant number of whom breed only a single litter in an extended period.
 

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Yeah, I think they should put stuff like this on that show, Nancy Grace. Nancy Grace is still talking about Caylee Anthony today she said "Breaking News The Desperate search for two year old Flordia girl Caylee!" She was found like in the fallish winter....
 

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BYBs, mostly - commercially bred dogs only make up 20% (high estimate) of the intentionally bred dogs in this country (breeders who compete make up about 10% by comparison.) The vast majority of intentionally bred dogs (and I"m counting people who 'well, we wanted to breed her someday and she just got pregnant" in that number, because that IS intentional, if extremely irresponsible.) are from BYBs, a significant number of whom breed only a single litter in an extended period.
That particular rescue mostly takes in former breeding dogs. Occasionally they'll pull from kill shelters but most of their small dogs come from breeder surrenders/seizures. They are very close to Missouri, which I understand is THE worst puppymill state. Most of their females have been bred so many times their insides are a complete mess.

I wonder if these "good" commercial breeders (I am willing to stipulate that it's possible to be a good mass breeder, but unlikely) do any buyer screening, require spay/neuter on pet quality puppies, or take any dog of their breeding back if the owner can't keep it. If not, they're just adding to the shelter problem, and I can't find any way to call that "good".
 
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