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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Some background.
-I work the graveyard shift. Goes to work before dinner time(6PM) and at home around 6AM.
-We don't have much room inside the house.
-I'm currently reading BEFORE and AFTER books by Ian Dunbar
-Also reading Digital Dog Training Textbook from dogstardaily.com
-I play a lot of computer games and having a puppy / dog will get me to take daily walks / runs.
- He won't be alone the entire time I'm at work and he won't be alone while I'm asleep. My Family will be with him.

Here's my "plan"
Follow the short term confinement and long term confinement methods described in the books above.

Here's my problem:
We don't have much space inside our place so the plan is to get a dog cage in our garage for his long term confinement, something like this: http://images03.olx.com.ph/ui/1/01/52/4619952_1.jpg (with bed/ water /puppy toilet and chew toys) where he will sleep during the night while I'm at work.

And then when I get home, he'll stay with me in my room with his bed or leashed to my belt for his short-term confinement (with the hourly trip to the doggy toilet) while I browse or play games and the occasional play time with him.

Then when I need to sleep (around 6 hours a day) He goes back to the long term confinement (dog cage) with his chewtoys.

Will this work?

Eventually my long term goal is to get him to sleep in his long term confinement(dog cage) during the night and allow him to stay the whole day inside the house even while I'm asleep.


-I'm still on the planning stages so I may have several follow up questions.
-I plan on purchasing everything first before the dog itself.
-I'm planning on getting a Siberian Husky. (While I do understand your concern regarding getting Husky for a first time owner, this is something that will not change) In other words, pretend that I already have a Husky and there is nothing we can do about it. Thank you and I don't mean this in a rude way.
 

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Some background.
-I work the graveyard shift. Goes to work before dinner time(6PM) and at home around 6AM.
-I'm planning on getting a Siberian Husky.
These two things concern me the most. Will the dog be alone for 12 hours? Then ignored again for 6 hours while you sleep? Sounds like a very bad situation for a puppy.

I consider huskies to be a challenging breed, especially for a first time owner. I would suggest another breed, I might also suggest you not get a puppy. It doesn't sound like you're going to be committing enough time to get raise a puppy. There are plenty of older dogs who need rescuing who would do much better on your schedule.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
These two things concern me the most. Will the dog be alone for 12 hours? Then ignored again for 6 hours while you sleep? Sounds like a very bad situation for a puppy.

I consider huskies to be a challenging breed, especially for a first time owner. I would suggest another breed, I might also suggest you not get a puppy. It doesn't sound like you're going to be committing enough time to get raise a puppy. There are plenty of older dogs who need rescuing who would do much better on your schedule.
I consider myself warned when getting a Husky. But thank you for your honest reply. This is why I want to read and learn more before I finally make the purchase.

With regards to your concern, does this mean that people with regular jobs can't have dogs? Because normal people with regular jobs work from 7am - 6pm (with preparation and travel time) and needs to sleep for around 8 hours. My actual shift starts from 8PM to 5AM. And no he won't be alone, I have my family with me, but I'll mostly do the training.
 

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These two things concern me the most. Will the dog be alone for 12 hours? Then ignored again for 6 hours while you sleep? Sounds like a very bad situation for a puppy.

I consider huskies to be a challenging breed, especially for a first time owner. I would suggest another breed, I might also suggest you not get a puppy. It doesn't sound like you're going to be committing enough time to get raise a puppy. There are plenty of older dogs who need rescuing who would do much better on your schedule.
Agree. A Husky is a bad choice. I know you say it will get you motivated to go on walks and get out of the house, but Huskies are dogs that need HOURS of running a day. They are bred from lines that pull sleds hundreds of miles, they have incredible stamina and great amounts of energy. They are difficult dogs for experienced owners and can easily get out of control.

There are Husky owners on this forum who may chime in here, but they will tell you the same thing. I would recommend a different, calmer breed.

Also, I bolded the question that we really need an answer to in order to give you more advice :)
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Agree. A Husky is a bad choice. I know you say it will get you motivated to go on walks and get out of the house, but Huskies are dogs that need HOURS of running a day. They are bred from lines that pull sleds hundreds of miles, they have incredible stamina and great amounts of energy. They are difficult dogs for experienced owners and can easily get out of control.

There are Husky owners on this forum who may chime in here, but they will tell you the same thing. I would recommend a different, calmer breed.

Also, I bolded the question that we really need an answer to in order to give you more advice :)
At night, I'll be at work but my family is at home asleep. Is that considered alone?
During the day, when I need to sleep for 6 hours, most of my family is at home. I have a 5 yr old sister with her nanny so there will always be someone at home.

Regarding the breed of choice. I understand your concern but I've already made up my mind. I am fully aware of the difficulty of raising a Husky. And it doesn't help that I read this quote from the BEFORE book:

I am strongly opposed to suggesting breeds for people.
Recommending specific breeds may sound like helpful and
harmless advice, but it is insidiously dangerous and not in the
best interests of dogs or of dog-owning families. Advice either
for or against specific breeds often leads owners to believe that
training is either unnecessary or impossible. Thus many poor
dogs grow up without an education.
 

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I think you need to start reading a different book. Just because one book says this doesn't mean that it's the gospel truth about bringing a puppy into your home. Dog breeds do have certain stereotypes that they carry, and for good reason - they're warnings about what may come with this breed, hence making the owner aware of what difficulties they may face in the future. Breed is the only determinate we have for behavior issues and requirements. Huskies, generally, need to run for hours and have a high prey drive. Maybe you'll find the 1 Husky in 1,000 that doesn't have those requirements, but I sincerely doubt it.

"Advice either for or against specific breeds often leads owners to believe that training is either unnecessary or impossible." The point is that we're suggesting you don't HAVE the time or experience to train a Husky. Training is both possible and necessary and MUST be done, along with exercising. Your puppy will need HOURS, I am not exaggerating, of exercise a day, or it will turn its energies into destruction. It doesn't sound like you have the time or energy to deal with a dog like this.

Yes, it is considered "alone" if your family is at home and asleep. So you're going to get a high energy puppy that needs socialization and put him in an environment where he's with sleeping people nearly 18 hours of the day?
 

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Discussion Starter #7 (Edited)
I think you need to start reading a different book. Just because one book says this doesn't mean that it's the gospel truth about bringing a puppy into your home. Dog breeds do have certain stereotypes that they carry, and for good reason - they're warnings about what may come with this breed, hence making the owner aware of what difficulties they may face in the future. Breed is the only determinate we have for behavior issues and requirements. Huskies, generally, need to run for hours and have a high prey drive. Maybe you'll find the 1 Husky in 1,000 that doesn't have those requirements, but I sincerely doubt it.

"Advice either for or against specific breeds often leads owners to believe that training is either unnecessary or impossible." The point is that we're suggesting you don't HAVE the time or experience to train a Husky. Training is both possible and necessary and MUST be done, along with exercising. Your puppy will need HOURS, I am not exaggerating, of exercise a day, or it will turn its energies into destruction. It doesn't sound like you have the time or energy to deal with a dog like this.

Yes, it is considered "alone" if your family is at home and asleep. So you're going to get a high energy puppy that needs socialization and put him in an environment where he's with sleeping people nearly 18 hours of the day?
Let me just correct you with that 18 hours of being alone. He won't be. When I'm asleep for 6 hours, he'll have my family as his company. He won't be alone for more than 12 hours as well since my family won't be asleep the entire time I'm at work.

What confuses me is that my work time and sleep time is still the same as the work time and sleep time of other dog owners. It's just that I'm in the graveyard shift but I still work 8-9 hours a day and sleep 6 hours a day like everyone else. :( I think it's even better because when I'm at work, the puppy will just need to sleep. They sleep at night too, right?

And for the sake of moving forward with this discussion, let's say that I'm going to get a Lab instead. My main concern really is his long term confinement area. Will my plan work? Books always describe a long term confinement as an indoor play area(kitchen, small room cordoned off area etc.) and never as an outdoor dog cage
 

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You work 8-9 hours a day, but your first post says you're gone for 12 hours total, then you sleep for 6 hours, so that's 18 hours a day that you're not with the puppy. That's simply too much. If you're only gone for work for 9 hours, then that's a slightly different story.

Your first post says that he goes into the long term confinement (LTC for short), while you're at work, which is for 12 hours, then goes back when you're asleep, which is another 6. So I'm sorry if we were concerned that you're locking your puppy up for 18 hours, but that's what the first post says. If your family is going to take him out, then that's something else.

About the LTC - I think the area in the picture you showed is way too small. He will end up stepping and laying in his own feces and urine in an enclosure as small as that. It needs to be larger so that he can avoid laying in his own waste.

If you're gone for work 12 hours a day, you sleep another 6 hours and play video games quite a bit, I must ask - why do you want a puppy? I honestly wouldn't recommend ANY puppy to you with those kinds of hours. You're going to have an impossible time potty training with that schedule. The general rule is that puppies can hold it an hour for every month they are old. If you're getting an 8 week old puppy, which is the standard, it needs to go outside every two hours in order for potty training to be successful. Many members on this forum have woken up several times a night to take their puppy outside. How will your puppy get out while you're at work? Allowing him to eliminate in the LTC will erase any potty training you attempt, because he will still be eliminating inside your house. Have you considered getting an older dog instead?

Books can only get you so far. I think it's a great idea to read them and they can give you lots of ideas. I have a Master's Degree in Literature, so believe me, I love my books. But at the end of the day, you DO need to do some breed research. That quote about not caring about breed is just nonsensical. Border Collies are intense with lots of energy. Labs are puppy-like for most of their lives and are often quite food motivated. Akitas are aloof, independent and wary of strangers. German Shepherd Dogs are energetic herders who are vocal and shed a lot.

Yes, these are all stereotypes, but stereotypes have roots in truth. Huskies are not video-gaming buddies. Huskies are jogging or biking partners and hike takers. If you're drawn to them simply for their aesthetics (which I totally understand, because they're beautiful dogs), you're going to end up having a poor relationship with your dog because your current situation is unable to meet its needs. I'm telling you what I think about these things because as a member of this forum, giving others advice, I truly WANT everyone to have a healthy and happy relationship with their dog, and I am willing to spend HOURS of my life every day in helping others to achieve that, even if it means giving someone news they don't want to hear. Before I got my first dog, I wish someone had sat me down and said 'can you really provide what this dog needs?'. The answer would have been 'no', and the dog wouldn't have suffered by not getting enough exercise and stimulation while I wouldn't have suffered by having my furniture and belongings torn up by a bored dog.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
You work 8-9 hours a day, but your first post says you're gone for 12 hours total, then you sleep for 6 hours, so that's 18 hours a day that you're not with the puppy. That's simply too much. If you're only gone for work for 9 hours, then that's a slightly different story.

Your first post says that he goes into the long term confinement (LTC for short), while you're at work, which is for 12 hours, then goes back when you're asleep, which is another 6. So I'm sorry if we were concerned that you're locking your puppy up for 18 hours, but that's what the first post says. If your family is going to take him out, then that's something else.

About the LTC - I think the area in the picture you showed is way too small. He will end up stepping and laying in his own feces and urine in an enclosure as small as that. It needs to be larger so that he can avoid laying in his own waste.

If you're gone for work 12 hours a day, you sleep another 6 hours and play video games quite a bit, I must ask - why do you want a puppy? I honestly wouldn't recommend ANY puppy to you with those kinds of hours. You're going to have an impossible time potty training with that schedule. The general rule is that puppies can hold it an hour for every month they are old. If you're getting an 8 week old puppy, which is the standard, it needs to go outside every two hours in order for potty training to be successful. Many members on this forum have woken up several times a night to take their puppy outside. How will your puppy get out while you're at work? Allowing him to eliminate in the LTC will erase any potty training you attempt, because he will still be eliminating inside your house. Have you considered getting an older dog instead?
Thank you for still replying dmickle1.
I just need to say this again, I think it's unfair that you count the number of hours that I'm asleep but you don't count the number of hours other owners are asleep. I'm not with the puppy for a maximum 12 hours a day and can be with him for 2 full days during the weekend.

I prepare, travel and am at work for a total of 12 hours a day. Other dog owners do have a job too, right? They work 8-5 + a few hours of preparation. So that's 9hours + 2 so around 11 hours of not being with the puppy. Now since you are counting the time that I'm asleep then we should add the hours they are too. So that's 11 hours + 8 (normally)? 19 hours.

As for the cage, I'll take note of your feedback and will get a larger one instead.

As for the reason, I play video games because I have nothing else to do. With a puppy, I'll have something else to do and will have an excuse to walk / run outside which I would like to do very much.
 

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You seem stubborn and hard headed (like me! so i'm not saying that in a bad way haha). But books can only take your so far, they can only give you so much advice. Plus, dogs don't read books, they don't act how the book says they will act. Without actually having a dog, you can't really understand what all having a dog entails.

No matter what your sleep/work schedule you need to be playing with your puppy for a few hours a day, at least 2 longggg walks a day, and many many 10-15 minute long bathroom trips. They're going to chew up your things, they will pee in your house, etc...

I think the entire cage idea is a horrible one, have you thought of just fencing your yard instead? That way, you could let the puppy run and play and exercise so it wouldn't really be your family's responsibility to entertain your dog while you're at work? They could just let him/her play outside and get some energy out while not being bothered. You said you have a 5 year old sister? She could play with the dog but she can't take it on walks, so that would be up to someone else in your family to do. I think fencing in a yard is your best bet. I guess I should have asked before now, but do you have a yard to fence in?
 

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You seem stubborn and hard headed (like me! so i'm not saying that in a bad way haha). But books can only take your so far, they can only give you so much advice. Plus, dogs don't read books, they don't act how the book says they will act. Without actually having a dog, you can't really understand what all having a dog entails.

No matter what your sleep/work schedule you need to be playing with your puppy for a few hours a day, at least 2 longggg walks a day, and many many 10-15 minute long bathroom trips. They're going to chew up your things, they will pee in your house, etc...

I think the entire cage idea is a horrible one, have you thought of just fencing your yard instead? That way, you could let the puppy run and play and exercise so it wouldn't really be your family's responsibility to entertain your dog while you're at work? They could just let him/her play outside and get some energy out while not being bothered. You said you have a 5 year old sister? She could play with the dog but she can't take it on walks, so that would be up to someone else in your family to do. I think fencing in a yard is your best bet. I guess I should have asked before now, but do you have a yard to fence in?
I can really be stubborn when it comes to something I really want.

That's the idea, to have something else to do for a couple of hours a day other than playng games in front of my computer.

But fencing the yard seems to defeat the purpose of the LTC training, right?
 

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I just need to say this again, I think it's unfair that you count the number of hours that I'm asleep but you don't count the number of hours other owners are asleep. I'm not with the puppy for a maximum 12 hours a day and can be with him for 2 full days during the weekend.

I prepare, travel and am at work for a total of 12 hours a day. Other dog owners do have a job too, right? They work 8-5 + a few hours of preparation. So that's 9hours + 2 so around 11 hours of not being with the puppy. Now since you are counting the time that I'm asleep then we should add the hours they are too. So that's 11 hours + 8 (normally)? 19 hours.
If your family is all in for the dog and will share in the responsibilities then it could work. But they need to be just as on-board as you are. We're not just talking about a dog, we're talking about a puppy. If you bring home an 8 week old puppy it will require housebreaking, leash training, crate training, obedience training, socialization, and much much more. Is your family willing to take the puppy out every hour while you are at work and while you are sleeping? Because if not, that puppy is not going to get housebroken quickly. How do you plan to socialize it if it's going to stay in your house all the time? Most people who plan to bring home a puppy have to take time away from their job for a while.

Yes most dog owners work. But most of them also have older dogs who are trained. Or they are sent to daycare. Or they come home at lunch to walk them. Or they hire a dog walker etc...

An older dog of a different breed could thrive in your situation. There are plenty of older shelter dogs who will be euthanized who would gladly lounge around the house while you are gone. If you get a puppy you need to realize the commitment it is. Or else odds are you will be sending your puppy to a shelter once you realize you don't have time to properly train it and it's destroying your house and is no longer the fun idea you had in mind.
 

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Yes fencing in the yard does defeat that, but if you've got a yard and the puppy is out playing and running and peeing, then they won't pee in the house. If they have a yard to go in and you let them out quite often, then you won't need the LTC training. Not to mention it'll be easier on your family to just let the dog go play outside than having to take the time to walk it and take it out each time it needs to use the bathroom. To me, fencing in the yard and letting a dog do what it naturally wants to do, run and play to get out its energy, is so much better than having a hyper crazy dog because s/he was stuck in a crate for hours a day. Not to mention it will also fix your potty training issues. (I feel like I just talked in a circle there, sorry, welcome to my mind haha)

I personally would HATE to be confined in a small place for longer than 5 minutes...if that, I can't imagine a dog would enjoy it either.
 

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Yes fencing in the yard does defeat that, but if you've got a yard and the puppy is out playing and running and peeing, then they won't pee in the house. If they have a yard to go in and you let them out quite often, then you won't need the LTC training. Not to mention it'll be easier on your family to just let the dog go play outside than having to take the time to walk it and take it out each time it needs to use the bathroom. To me, fencing in the yard and letting a dog do what it naturally wants to do, run and play to get out its energy, is so much better than having a hyper crazy dog because s/he was stuck in a crate for hours a day. Not to mention it will also fix your potty training issues. (I feel like I just talked in a circle there, sorry, welcome to my mind haha)

I personally would HATE to be confined in a small place for longer than 5 minutes...if that, I can't imagine a dog would enjoy it either.
Leaving the dog outside will not prevent it from peeing inside the house. Leaving it outside would actually remove the chances you have of housebreaking it. Leaving a puppy outside by itself for a long period of time does not sound like a good idea in general.
 

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I've a five and a half month old Siberian Husky. Prior to my Husky - I had a Great Pyrenees. On that note;

I completely 150% agree with the advice that dmickle1, ClemsonRed9 and Herdersforme have said. A Siberian Husky could never be crated in that cage you've shown. For starters. Siberian Huskies are -notoriously- vocal dogs. Are you and your family prepared to deal with him/her screaming bloody murder at the top of their lungs when they are upset or miserable? And I do literally mean screaming. Go look up on youtube Husky's screaming. That is what not just you - but your family will be subjected to.

Is your family willing to get up every few hours in the middle of the night (as I did to get my Husky house trained) while you're working to take him/her out to go potty? To stand out there for 10-15 minutes until they go? And then do it again - all for the sake so that -you- can have -your- puppy?

I take my husky out on 2-4 walks a day between 45 minutes and an hour and a half depending on the weather. Can you accommodate these things into your schedule? Is your family willing to give up -their- time to take -your- dog on these walks? A husky without a proper outlet for his/her energy will become an unruly, destructive husky. Eating furniture, carpet, paint, climbing on counters, destroying your garbage etc. Anything they can get to.

Are you prepared that when you've finally laid down for those few precious hours of sleep that your puppy may want to play? He/she might want to go for a walk? Your five year old sister cannot take a dog for a walk or clean up the yard. Your puppy does not understand that you need to sleep or why you're not paying attention to him/her. Be prepared for lots of screaming and howling.

When you come home from work are you willing to go outside to your yard and hunt around for those little presents your puppy leaves you while you aren't at home? Because you will have to clean up your yard. Are you also prepared that when you've crated him/her and he/she has an accident in his/her crate that you will have to come home and clean -that- as well. And not just cleaning it up - but washing it and making sure it's disinfected and using a cleaner on it so that you're making sure the puppy doesn't make the connection that it is -okay- to go in its crate? Or is your family okay with cleaning up -your- puppies mess?

What about spay/neuter? Do you plan on having it done? Who will watch the puppy to make sure he/she doesn't tear the stitches accidentally playing or that your five year old sister doesn't pull them out by accident because she doesn't understand the puppy has a boo-boo? Is your family willing to take on this huge responsibility of keeping an eye on the puppy while he/she is out playing every single second to make sure he/she doesn't get into anything they shouldn't? And I can assure you, a puppy will.

When I decided on getting my Husky - I gave up my job because she is -my- dog and -my- responsibility. -I- wanted a puppy. -I- wanted to be responsible for her training, her socialization her obedience, her leash training to make sure that my mother who has MS could take her out on walks and I wouldn't have to worry about Bella hurting my mother, all of this just to make sure she is a well situated and a happy puppy in every sense of the word. I did not want a 10 week old puppy so that I could pawn the responsibilities off onto my family for teaching her manners or house training her. (If that sounds as rude as I have reread it to be, I apologize as I didn't intend that. But that's essentially what is going to happen).

Just my two cents. Wall of text, I apologize.
 

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Well not by itself, but with supervision. If his parents could just let the pup out in the backyard and have his sister out there playing with the pup (while his parents were watching both) i think it'd be easier on them. It wouldn't be such an inconvenience on them to have to take the dog on walks since its not their dog.
 

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From the picture I can't tell how big that cage is. I would just say get something big enough for him when he is full grown. Or you could get something like an exercise pen. But beware the possibility of it being jumped as the pup gets older. Also as for it being in the garage, where do you live at? If it is an area noted for being hot, then realize the garage will be too and there is no breeze inside the garage. And this is a husky. So it will be even hotter for him. Unless you have like an air conditioned garage.

As for the husky thing. I understand wanting a dog to get you off you butt. I got my second dog because my Jack Russell is the rare kind who is more then content to just lay around the house if I want. As long as I run around with her for about thirty minutes. Bello. Well if he doesn't at least get a mile and a half walk a day (and only for right now since it is summer and he can't handle the heat, so that tires him out) then he gets destructive. Infact he runs most of that walk and does tons of detouring and huge circles getting all his energy out. In the winter, he definitely requires a lot more walking. I often let him pull me on skates. And then walk him. And then go on the nightly walk where he runs like crazy. You keep mentioning how it isn't fair that we aren't talking about other people that work those same amount of hours during the day... I don't think any of us would say go get a husky to them either. I'm not saying it can't be done. I'm saying. It will be difficult. And especially since you want a puppy. I honestly think you should get an older dog. At about a year or two. Rescue one. :) Tons of huskies in the shelters. And then you can ask and learn more about its personality and maybe get a lower exercise one.
 

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From the picture I can't tell how big that cage is. I would just say get something big enough for him when he is full grown. Or you could get something like an exercise pen. But beware the possibility of it being jumped as the pup gets older. Also as for it being in the garage, where do you live at? If it is an area noted for being hot, then realize the garage will be too and there is no breeze inside the garage. And this is a husky. So it will be even hotter for him. Unless you have like an air conditioned garage.

As for the husky thing. I understand wanting a dog to get you off you butt. I got my second dog because my Jack Russell is the rare kind who is more then content to just lay around the house if I want. As long as I run around with her for about thirty minutes. Bello. Well if he doesn't at least get a mile and a half walk a day (and only for right now since it is summer and he can't handle the heat, so that tires him out) then he gets destructive. Infact he runs most of that walk and does tons of detouring and huge circles getting all his energy out. In the winter, he definitely requires a lot more walking. I often let him pull me on skates. And then walk him. And then go on the nightly walk where he runs like crazy. You keep mentioning how it isn't fair that we aren't talking about other people that work those same amount of hours during the day... I don't think any of us would say go get a husky to them either. I'm not saying it can't be done. I'm saying. It will be difficult. And especially since you want a puppy. I honestly think you should get an older dog. At about a year or two. Rescue one. :) Tons of huskies in the shelters. And then you can ask and learn more about its personality and maybe get a lower exercise one.
Thank you. Unfortunately from where I live, rescuing a siberian husky is not an option. Besides, even if I could, I doubt he'll be trained and isn't it much harder to train an older dog?
 

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Thank you. Unfortunately from where I live, rescuing a siberian husky is not an option. Besides, even if I could, I doubt he'll be trained and isn't it much harder to train an older dog?
Why is it not an option? An older dog would be a lot less work for you. I'm not sure you realize how much work a puppy is.
 

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Why is it not an option? An older dog would be a lot less work for you. I'm not sure you realize how much work a puppy is.
Siberian huskies are a very rare breed from where I'm from. (Philippines) and we don't even have facilities for rescued dogs, I believe. I don't mean the amount of work, I mean older dogs already have bad habits which are hard to break, right? Thus harder to train.
 
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