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Discussion Starter #1
Hello,

I recently brought home a pair of 8 week (now almost 10 week) old Papillon puppies. We've only had them a little over a week and already we are having a variety of problems.

The other day we noticed that Abby is missing patches of hair on her face. We took her to the vet and the vet told us that it looked like a contact dermatitis from something that she may be allergic to, due to the fact that the hair loss is mostly in a straight line along the jawline. She thought it may be the Nylabones that Abby had been chewing on because the hair loss was in a straight line and mostly on the one side of her face. We took away the bones but now it's getting worse on the other side. She said that there were a few tests they could run, but her gut feeling was that it was an allergy and if the problem persists we could go the next step.

I notice that when the two puppies play that they are quite rough with each other. The vet told us that it's okay for them to fight while playing, but I see that Emma pulls on Abby's face when they play. I'm not sure if this is actually the cause of the hair loss, but even if it isn't, it surely isn't helping. Has anyone had a similar experience?

Then...this morning we noticed that Emma (the other puppy) keeps squatting to pee every few minutes. Usually nothing comes out, or just dribbles at most, and we're wondering if she has a bladder infection. This wasn't happening before...only this morning has it been an issue.

We have switched their food recently so I'm not sure if this is a cause. They are currently on the Purina Pediatric food in transition from another brand.

Does anyone have any advice for me?? I am desperate. My mom is unsure if we should give them back to the breeder because of a genetic health problem. I am sure that I should let the breeder know at the very least. The breeder is a neighbor's sister (my neighbor has a Papillon pup from an earlier litter) and she hasn't had any problems that we know of. The breeder told us this is her healthiest litter thus far.

Please help if you have any advice/suggestions. My family has had a rough year losing three elderly family members and our beloved Golden Retriever and we are trying to get this year off to a better start by adopting these two beautiful Papillon pups. Thank you in advance for any help you can give!
 

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Buying 2 can be a mistake. Especially 2 females. I'd return one if possible. Wait untli the puppy is a year or so old, then buy another if you want two.

Try changing the food and water bowls to stainless steel if they aren't already.

Take the puppy that is peeing a lot to the vet to check for a UTI.

I'm sorry about the losses you've suffered this year. Hopefully things get better.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
The two pups are sisters and they get along so well when it's sleepy time, and they are company for each other, however when they are playing they are so rough. They were the only two in the litter and we couldn't leave the other one. As for the food and water bowls, they are ceramic. The vet said that should be okay. We will be taking them both to the vet again this week as they need their shots for 10 weeks.
 

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The two pups are sisters and they get along so well when it's sleepy time, and they are company for each other, however when they are playing they are so rough. They were the only two in the litter and we couldn't leave the other one. As for the food and water bowls, they are ceramic. The vet said that should be okay. We will be taking them both to the vet again this week as they need their shots for 10 weeks.
I hope you've done your research on raising and training littermates - you will have your hands full!
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Has anyone ever actually raised littermates in a similar situation? I read that it can be difficult to potty train them but this is not the issue I am having.
 

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I don't recommend raising 2 puppies together because they can get very very attached to each other and cause a lot of problems. For example, if you don't separate them on a common basis and work on them one at a time they may not bond to you very much. Also they can have separation anxiety for each other and will become uncontrollable (whining, screaming, howling) when separated so if you plan to keep both, make sure you separate them from time to time so that they're used to being away from each other.

The one that squats a lot sounds like a UTI, you should take her to the vet and get it checked out and perhaps put on antibiotics. Dogs should not be squatting and trying to pee if nothing comes out.

The one with the face fur loss is most likely not due to them playing rough with each other. I've seen dogs play rough with each other all the time, grabbing and pulling on the face with teeth and I've never seen any hair loss. Puppies are puppies, they will play rough with each other and if you want it to stop you can separate them but usually it's perfectly fine. Almost any 2 puppies put together will play with each other...Go back to the vet and ask him to check your pups again.

Definitely contact the breeder and tell them what's happening so they can check if the parents and other puppies/other litters have similar problems. Do they provide a health guarantee? If it is a genetic issue, are they willing to take the puppies back and offer a refund? I feel like you may not have found the best breeder to be honest but I don't want to judge because you haven't told us that much information on the breeder. Do they show their dogs? Do they health test (eg patellar, PRA, etc.) before breeding?
 

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I feel like you may not have found the best breeder to be honest but I don't want to judge because you haven't told us that much information on the breeder. Do they show their dogs? Do they health test (eg patellar, PRA, etc.) before breeding?
Given the breeder sold littermates is a flag on its own. I'm not saying that an ethical breeder would NEVER send littermates together to a home, but only to a very experienced owner in my opinion. This doesn't seem to be the case (and like you, not trying to judge, but basing solely on the information provided).
 

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Discussion Starter #8
The breeder raises many dogs and also raises miniature horses which she shows and breeds herself. There are many champions in the pedigree of both parents to my pups. The breeder would take the pups back if need be, she is my neighbor's sister so we know her. As for my own experience, I have only had Golden Retrievers in the past, so this is a new experience for myself and my family. We love dogs and are willing to ride through the challenges that we will face raising these two.

Has ANYONE ever raised siblings from the same litter? Or am I crazy?
 

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An update on the situation: We took Emma to the vet today and she does have a little bladder infection. She is on antibiotics so that should clear up that problem. Also, the girls haven't been fighting AS MUCH today as they were previously so hopefully they will grow out of that too. Thanks to those of you who have responded. I'm sure this is a learning and growing period for all of us and we are willing to ride it out. They are beautiful dogs and so smart, so we will get through this.
 

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Thank you for the link. I have not really noticed any problems with the pups bonding to me or my family. They still stay with me wherever I go around the house, they sleep in a crate in my room, and when they're tired they come to me to sleep on my lap or beside me on the floor. Yesterday we took one of the pups by themselves to the vet and both dogs behaved just fine on their own. I am hoping this won't be an issue as my mom really wanted to keep the pups together. The breeder has sold two siblings before and has not heard of any trouble either.
 

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i have raised littermates before and have had no problems....other than the usual puppyhood antics....

they were very close and both died within days of each other when they reached a very ripe old age....we used to call them the spinster aunts...because they bickered a lot.....but they were very close to each other and got along for the most part....

it's kind of like having twins....double the work, double the pleasure....:)

good luck to you and have fun watching them grow...
 

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i have raised littermates before and have had no problems....other than the usual puppyhood antics....

they were very close and both died within days of each other when they reached a very ripe old age....we used to call them the spinster aunts...because they bickered a lot.....but they were very close to each other and got along for the most part....

it's kind of like having twins....double the work, double the pleasure....:)

good luck to you and have fun watching them grow...
THANK YOU!! This is the first completely positive response I have received and it makes me feel so much better! I really appreciate it!
 

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Re the playing, I wouldn't expect them to grow out of it any time soon..we have a 16 week old puppy who plays with our 2 year old Shih Tzu mix constantly. Our mix is always up for play and, since they're pretty much the same size, they can do puppy play happily. We've had puppy zoomies since the puppy was 8 weeks old. Hours of puppy zoomies
 

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I have 18 month old Cavalier littermates--a boy and a girl. It is a lot of work. We feed, walk, potty, and train them separately as well as spend separate time with each of them each day. I've not seen any problem with anxiety when they are separated.

The extra work is easily balanced by the joy of being with them when they interact. They play very rough but both just love it and keep going back for more! They are both happy and healthy. The only behavior issue we deal with is poop eating when I am not vigilant about picking up.

On the whole, I'd definitely do it this way again.
 

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I have 18 month old Cavalier littermates--a boy and a girl. It is a lot of work. We feed, walk, potty, and train them separately as well as spend separate time with each of them each day. I've not seen any problem with anxiety when they are separated.

The extra work is easily balanced by the joy of being with them when they interact. They play very rough but both just love it and keep going back for more! They are both happy and healthy. The only behavior issue we deal with is poop eating when I am not vigilant about picking up.

On the whole, I'd definitely do it this way again.
This is good to hear. My pups have an infatuation with poop too. The one little girl always runs over to see what's coming out of the other's bum while she's going poop, and then they both run around and sniff it. Knock on wood, I haven't had them actually try to eat it yet. Yucky! Too much info!

As for playing, my girls are very rough, always biting each other's faces. I am still afraid that Emma is pulling out the hair on Abby's face, but it's so hard to get them to stop. It doesn't seem to bother Abby, and that's how puppies play.
 
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