[leahhughes]

:help:
Hello Everyone! This is going to be a long one..

My husband and I just got a new puppy, a female Patterdale Terrier. She is 8 1/2 weeks (9 weeks on Sunday) but we got her when she was 7 weeks. We recently moved to England, Husband is USAF, so I am jobless for now. My husband works Monday through Friday, leaving me home with Puppy. We are both first time trainers. Though we have always had a dog in our family we have never trained one ourselves. I just want to make sure we are doing things the way we should be. I might be starting to work within the next month or so, an 8 hour day.

Crating
Since night one, she has been crated. Of course the first five nights she cried every time she was put in her crate so we could sleep. She is down to one squeal, maybe, when we put her in! I started off letting her out every two hours, then twice a night, and now I am down to once a night potty breaks. Starting the once a night break, I let her out half way between when we went to bed, at our 6am wake up time. The past two days, however, I have started to let her out a half an hour later than the night before. For two nights I will stay at the same time, then the next two nights will be a half hour later, etc. She has had no accidents, except for the first night, she pooped in her crate. She has been doing well with her pottying at night, she is holding it for six hours now!

She does not go in her crate on her own. We put her in, give her a treat, and close the door while she is eating it. Once she is done, we give her another treat through the crate door and praise her saying "good kennel". Then we say goodnight, and go to bed. Her crate is in the living room, below our bedroom.

I am having trouble crating her during the day. I started putting her in her crate, with me home, for 30m-1h, so that if I have to leave, she isn't so afraid. I crate her for that amount of time two or three times a day. When I put her in, all she does is CRY even though she can see or hear me! I usually do homework or clean during the time she is in her kennel. Am I doing something wrong here, she hates her kennel for the most part, and I really wish she didn't!!

Also, how can I get her to want to sleep in her kennel during the day, when she takes naps? She will only nap during the day if she falls asleep on me, or my husband on the weekends and evenings. I don't want to set her up for disaster by allowing her to fall asleep on us, but it is the only place she will fall asleep. Sometimes when she is asleep, I will move her off of my or my husband onto her blanket, but still near us on the couch. She will usually fall asleep right away, otherwise she will try to come back to us. I attached a picture of her sleeping on my Husband.

If I start working, how should I go about kennelling her?

House Training
Puppy is pretty good with not going potty in the house, but she does have accidents. I take her out when she wakes up, after she eats, after we play, and after she wakes up from a nap. I also take her out in between those times. When taking her from the kennel to outside, I carry her, because I don't want her to get off track and potty on the floor. Most of the time she will follow me to the patio door. I open it and say "Abby out" and she will jump down. If she doesn't, I place her outside, and she will go potty. When she is out, I say "go potty Abby, go potty" and once she goes, I praise her verbally. If she goes poo, she gets a treat when she comes inside.

Biting and No No's
Biting has been hard for us. She likes to bite on the blankets, our clothes, our bodies, and she enjoys biting my hair (super long hair). We started off saying "NO" when she would bite something, and put one of her toys in her mouth. She hadn't caught onto that, so when she kept biting and biting, I shake a small Tupperware with change in it. It is working and she is biting less. I'm sure she will learn soon not to bite.

Eating
We started feeding her 3x a day,1/4 cup. In the last few days, I have been giving her a little less than a half cup and breakfast and dinner, and less than a fourth cup at lunchtime. We give her Purina Puppy Chow. Lucky for us, her puppy farts from changing food only lasted about a week.

Any replies would be AWESOME. Tips, tricks, advice, anything! Sometimes I get so frustrated, even though I know I shouldn't be. I am very worried about her only sleeping on us, and what will happen if I do go to work, I don't want to be causing any separation anxiety by allowing her to sleep on us.

 

[DustyCrockett]

I transfered my pup to his crate every time he fell asleep. After a couple days he started going in there to nap.

 

[kathylcsw]

Both of my puppies -one is 8 months old and 1 is 3 months old - nap on me or by me when I am home. They are both crated during the day while I work, in the morning to eat while I shower, and anytime no one is home. Lola (the 8 month old) did great from day 1. Buster cried and shrieked a lot the first week or so but now he does ok too. They both sleep with me at night too. I like to let me get as much quality time as possible when I am home to make up for the time they are crated and alone. So far it hasn't caused any issues with either.

Any time I am crating them for an hour or more I leave a treat of some kind. During the day while I am at work they both get a stuffed King. They are also fed in their crates to help them see the crate as a good place to be.

 

[doxiemommy]

Hi! Congratulations on your puppy! I have an Abby also!
Crating:
- At night, you just have to deal with the whining (it's not safe for her or your carpets and furniture to have her roam free!), and it sounds like you're doing fine, as she is whining less at night.
- During the day: try shorter periods of time. Try 5 minutes, but do 5 minutes as many times a day as you can. Then, gradually increase the time.
-Giving the treat is fine, you might want to try a frozen, stuffed kong. We stuff ours with peanut butter and freeze it overnight. It takes more time for them to get the peanut butter out, so it might occupy her for longer time.
- As for napping in the crate, some puppies like to, some don't. I don't know if you can influence her preference for that. As she gets older, and becomes more comfortable, she may nap in other places.

House training: It's really all about prevention, at this point.
- Very young puppies don't even get signals from their body that they need to pee, sometimes it seems to just happen out of the blue. As they age, they get the signals, but not consistently. Finally, their brains and bodies will catch up to each other. But, they won't even have full physical control of their bladders til 6 months of age, so accidents will happen, if you're not watching.
- When they puppy is out and about in the house, and awake, you have to have eyes on her 100% of the time. If you have to do something that will take your attention off her, then crate her for that time. Otherwise, watch her, more closely than you think you need to. That way, you'll see the signals (sniffing, agitation, circling) so you know to rush her out. And, if you miss the signals, and see her start to squat, interrupt her with a sound, and take her out.
- At her age, it's best to take her out every 30 minutes or so, PLUS all the other times you mentioned, like after naps and eating and such. Even if she doesn't have to go each time, you are laying a foundation for what you want. Always say the same words, and as soon as she starts to go, say "good potty" and as soon as she finishes, give her a treat, while you're still outside.
- As I said, it's really about preventing accidents inside by supervising, and taking her out often enough.

Biting: Read the sticky "The Bite Stops Here." It outlines how to teach bite inhibition. Basically, here's the idea:
- puppy bites, you say ouch loudly but not angrily, or you make a high pitched yelp. (It should be loud enough to get her attention every time.)
- puppy will probably bite again, almost immediately, it's what they do. So, make the noise again, but this time, also leave the room for 20-30 seconds. Any longer and she'll get bored, find something to do, and forget why you left.
Repeat this process, first the noise, then the noise and leaving, over and over and over.

- Biting is natural for a puppy, so it takes time, like weeks, so be patient and consistent.

Feeding: Purina isn't a very good food. I would recommend getting something better. Real meat should always be the first ingredient listed, not meat byproduct or corn or grain.

Good luck!

 

[murphydog1003]

about crying when you crate her for short intervals during the day - My puppy does this too, and still does at 4 months even though I consider him 'crate trained.' So you know what we do? We cover it with a blanket. Yes, the idea is to have him not associate you leaving with being in the crate, but my dog simply would not settle down if he could see me. So no matter what, home or away, a blanket always goes over so he can't see out. He is 100% quiet in his crate with the blanket. I tried the other day leaving the blanket up, but he just sat and whined at me. Weird huh?

Mine also doesn't choose to nap in his crate. It's fine with me. As long as he doesn't protest about being in there when I need him to be. Actually Murphy won't fall asleep anywhere but in his crate with the door closed - but we have to put him i nthere. So I decide when it's nap time, put him in his crate, close the door, and he sleeps.

 

[LilasMom]

Feeding: Purina isn't a very good food. I would recommend getting something better. Real meat should always be the first ingredient listed, not meat byproduct or corn or grain.

I agree. I would switch to a high quality food as soon as you can.

 

[DustyCrockett]

I raised whole dogs from puppy to grave on Pedigree, until I got one with chronic rumbly tummy sounds and soft stools. My research, and the ingredient list on lots of dogfoods, led me to the conclusion that the so-called premium brands (Iams, Science Diet) are really no better than the economy brands (Pedigree, Purina Dog Chow). To get a real improvement you have to step up to the extravagantly priced boutique foods (Buffalo, etc.). I'm skeptical of claims that processed corn and grains and meat meals and byproducts are bad for a dog, as the support for that view seems to come mostly from boutique dog food companies, along with theories and anecdotes from random internet bloggers. In the end, it seems a lot of emotion involved in what should be a rational decision. If I didn't need 40 lbs or so every 6 weeks I might go for the pricey stuff.

As it is, I compared prices and tried the cheapest of the 2nd tier foods (my terminology), Purina Beneful. The dogs like it, and I can pick up they poop (just like the alpha wolf in the wild ) without it slipping through my fingers, so that's what I'm going with for now, at least until mo better information comes my way.

But that's just my experience -- nothing I say should discourage you from giving your dogs the best you can afford.

 

[doxiemommy]

My research, and the ingredient list on lots of dogfoods, led me to the conclusion that the so-called premium brands (Iams, Science Diet) are really no better than the economy brands (Pedigree, Purina Dog Chow).

I would not consider Iams or Science Diet to be "premium brands", and I don't think many others here do, either. You are right, they aren't much better than Purina or Pedigree.

To get a real improvement you have to step up to the extravagantly priced boutique foods (Buffalo, etc.).

I, personally don't consider Blue Buffalo to be extravagantly priced. The thing is, if you feed a food that is high in fillers (non essential ingredients, just "filling" the food), aka many "economy" brands, you usually have to feed MORE of the food to get the proper nutrition.
A food like Blue Buffalo, with less fillers, has more nutrients in a smaller amount, quality, not quantity, so to speak. So, a bag of Blue might cost more, but lasts longer, because you use less for each feeding. For instance, Pedigree recommends feeding 1-1/4 c per day for my size dogs. Blue Buffalo, 2/3 c per day. So, yeah, I'm going to end up using less of Blue.

I'm skeptical of claims that processed corn and grains and meat meals and byproducts are bad for a dog, as the support for that view seems to come mostly from boutique dog food companies, along with theories and anecdotes from random internet bloggers. In the end, it seems a lot of emotion involved in what should be a rational decision. If I didn't need 40 lbs or so every 6 weeks I might go for the pricey stuff.

Think about what we feed ourselves, processed foods won't necessarily kill us, but aren't we always told to read the labels for our own nutritional benefit? I certainly would rather eat something that has better ingredients, than a bunch of byproducts. I mean, even if it's not BAD for you, is it the best you could do?

As it is, I compared prices and tried the cheapest of the 2nd tier foods (my terminology), Purina Beneful. The dogs like it, and I can pick up they poop (just like the alpha wolf in the wild ) without it slipping through my fingers, so that's what I'm going with for now, at least until mo better information comes my way.

But that's just my experience -- nothing I say should discourage you from giving your dogs the best you can afford.

My opinions are bolded in the reply.

 

[DustyCrockett]

I appreciate the feedback -- I don't really have a strong argument for my position.

The brands I mentioned are "premium" brands because of pricing -- it's how the manufacturers position them in the market, not a judgement of quality.

I understand your case, yes I do read labels for nutritional benefit. Now, who can tell me the nutritional benefit of byproducts? I have an emotional aversion to eating byproducts, but the dogs have no such aversion. The source of an ingredient is no more relevant than its name, when it comes to nutritional benefit.

BB has less protein and calcium, considerably more fat, about the same fiber, and quite a bit less moisture.

You cited 2/3 c per day vs 1.25 c -- that's a 47% reduction. I go through approx. 8 pounds a week, that's about 5 cups a day for 2 dogs, about 1 cup for Scout and 4 for Tucker. Beneful recommends 4.5c, Blue Buffalo around 3.5c. I see that BB has 1/4 to 1/3 more calories per cup.

If I cut consumption by 1/4, then I'd need 6 lbs/week, at $1.77 per pound, that's still more than double what I'm paying now, 8 lbs/week at 70¢ per pound.

I'd need more than emotional appeal to trade up.

 

[LilasMom]

If you read the nutritional labels than I am assuming you read the part where Beneful contains artificial ingredients and menadione? Not to mention a whole lot of other damaging stuff.

It isn't just about by products. Beneful is full is terrible. terrible ingredients. Here in their ingredient list:
Ingredients: Ground yellow corn, chicken by-product meal, corn gluten meal, whole wheat flour, animal fat preserved with mixed-tocopherols (form of Vitamin E), rice flour, beef, soy flour, sugar, propylene glycol, meat and bone meal, tricalcium phosphate, phosphoric acid, salt, water, animal digest, sorbic acid (a preservative), potassium chloride, dried carrots, dried peas, calcium propionate (a preservative), L-Lysine monohydrochloride, choline chloride, added color (Red 40, Yellow 5, Yellow 6, Blue 2), DL-Methionine, Vitamin E supplement, zinc sulfate, ferrous sulfate, manganese sulfate, niacin, Vitamin A supplement, calcium carbonate, copper sulfate, Vitamin B-12 supplement, calcium pantothenate, thiamine mononitrate, garlic oil, pyridoxine hydrochloride, riboflavin supplement, Vitamin D-3 supplement, menadione sodium bisulfite complex (source of Vitamin K activity), calcium iodate, folic acid, biotin, sodium selenite. The bad ingredients are in red.

There is very little meat in this. This is a grain based food, which is a red flag. It has no other source of protein except chicken by products, tiny bit of beef, animal fat, and animal digest, and meat and bone meal. These "animal" products could literally be anything from the intestines, beaks, feathers, etc to disease cows and poultry that was unfit for human consumption. Is has SUGAR in it which should not be in any pet food. Foods like these are why so many pets have diabetes. Next is the glycol thing, which has been banned by the FDA is cat food. It has FOUR different artificial colorings, completely unnecessary and only for it to look "pretty". Artificial chemicals have NO place in human OR pet food. These are just extra toxins your dog's liver has to try and process. Last but not least, menadione. This has been linked to kidney failure. The source of the ingredient IS relevant when the source could possibly be harmful to pets, contain diseased livestock, or euthanized animals. And no one ever said you had to get Blue Buffalo. Although beneful has more protein, keep in mind most of it comes from hard to digest proteins like corn and soy. Dogs stomachs are designed to digest grains. They are there to make the dog feel full, that is why they are called fillers. Most of that "protein" he isn't even getting. He is just pooping it out. That is why dogs on grain free diets have smaller poops than dogs on grain-inclusive diets.


How about this emotional appeal:

You are feeding your dog the equivalent of McDonalds everday. I personally could not live with myself knowing I was letting my dog ingest body-harming chemicals and unknown ingredients every single day. I would feel terrible knowing all the extra stress I was putting on his liver and kidneys, and knowing that down the road I might have to cough up a couple thousand dollars for medical bills. I would feel like a hypocrite because I would never put artificial ingredients and chemicals in my body every day, and yet there I would be feeding him junk when he trusts me to do what is best for him. I would be letting him down.

I really don't mean to be "dramatic" but I truly feel the ingredients in Beneful are just repulsive. You CAN find a better food that is cheaper than Blue Buffalo and probably Beneful too.

 

[DustyCrockett]

How about this emotional appeal

It's s good one. But it's contrary to my experience, having raised so many healthy happy dogs on Dog Chow and Pedigree and now this one. I admire you for avoiding processed foods and medications for yourself. If I claimed to avoid artificial ingredients and chemicals, I'd just be fooling myself.

There are lots of folks on the internet saying dogs aren't designed to process grains -- well, they aren't processing grains. They are processing nutrients derived from grains. The only thing I know from my own personal experience is that my own body digests cornbread differently from the way it digests corn. Beaks and feathers, so what? Intestines -- I don't eat 'em, but lots of folks south of here eat 'em all the time.

Interesting point about glycol -- I know it as a highly toxic de-icer, yet in my wifes medicene cabinet is a huge bottle of propylene glycol, prescribed by a physician, for daily use.

The artificial colorings, I hate that. Have you seen the stuff? It's got green bits and red bits and orange and brown. Designed to attract humans, I know, but I'm shopping for price.

I bought some Ol' Roy brand dog treats once, grilled chicken flavor. They looked like pressed fiberboard, with grill marks printed on them. The ingredient list actually included artificial smoke flavor. Can you believe it? I still think that's funny. I don't buy those anymore.

the ingredients in Beneful are just repulsive

Anthromorphism.

 

[LilasMom]

Anthromorphism.

No it is not. Like I said before, it is NOT the by products that are the huge problem (problem with that is it was the primary meat ingredient). I feed a raw diet so I have no problem dealing with innards of animals. I would have no problem feeding my pets a whole carcass like rabbit or cornish game hen. What is repulsive to me are the unnecessary and harmful chemicals that have no place in human or pet food. I am not grossed out by the guts and feathers, I am grossed out by a food that uses MOSTLY grains, very little meat, SUGAR, artificial ingredients, and the chemical linked to liver toxicity MENADIONE.

It is not anthromorphism to want to avoid these things. There is not one animal in the history of time who's natural food contains these ingredients.

 

[LilasMom]

Interesting point about glycol -- I know it as a highly toxic de-icer, yet in my wifes medicene cabinet is a huge bottle of propylene glycol, prescribed by a physician, for daily use.

Just because something is prescribed doesn't mean it won't harm your body. It is still extra chemicals that your wife's liver has to process.

The artificial colorings, I hate that. Have you seen the stuff? It's got green bits and red bits and orange and brown. Designed to attract humans, I know, but I'm shopping for price.

You can get better food for the price you are paying.

 

[juliemule]

4health is a much better food than purina, costs only a few dollars more per bag, plus they eat less and poop about half as much.

 

[juliemule]

To the OP, sounds like you are doing a good job. One suggestion, try luring your pup to go in and out of the crate on his own. Use super good treats, and let him turn around and come right back out. A few times a day, then increase it, he should soon think of the crate as fun rather than being stuck in it.

 

[WTFCas]

You picked a hell of a breed for first time owners.lol Anyways, all in all I would say keep doing what you're doing. As far as crating goes, I just let my dogs cry it out and eventually they settle down. I also gave them AWESOME treats when they did...made it much more appealing for them.

 

[Rescued]

I appreciate the feedback -- I don't really have a strong argument for my position.

The brands I mentioned are "premium" brands because of pricing -- it's how the manufacturers position them in the market, not a judgement of quality.

I understand your case, yes I do read labels for nutritional benefit. Now, who can tell me the nutritional benefit of byproducts? I have an emotional aversion to eating byproducts, but the dogs have no such aversion. The source of an ingredient is no more relevant than its name, when it comes to nutritional benefit.

BB has less protein and calcium, considerably more fat, about the same fiber, and quite a bit less moisture.

You cited 2/3 c per day vs 1.25 c -- that's a 47% reduction. I go through approx. 8 pounds a week, that's about 5 cups a day for 2 dogs, about 1 cup for Scout and 4 for Tucker. Beneful recommends 4.5c, Blue Buffalo around 3.5c. I see that BB has 1/4 to 1/3 more calories per cup.

If I cut consumption by 1/4, then I'd need 6 lbs/week, at $1.77 per pound, that's still more than double what I'm paying now, 8 lbs/week at 70¢ per pound.

I'd need more than emotional appeal to trade up.

Have you tried the Costco brand (Kirkland?) Still not excellent, but MUCH better than Purina and here its about .50 cents cheaper than Purina per lb.

 

[Willowy]

Even Purina Dog Chow would be better than Beneful (which is not particularly cheap anyway). I mean, SUGAR in dog food. Ugh. Diamond Naturals has meat as the first ingredient, no artificial colors or added sugar, and costs less than Beneful.

 

[DustyCrockett]

Diamond Naturals has meat as the first ingredient, no artificial colors or added sugar, and costs less than Beneful.

useful information. Thanks!

 

[leahhughes]

WOW! Thank you for all of the feedback! I will change her food soon. She poops a few times a day, hopefully changing to a better food will cut that down!

Any advice on what to do about her charging my face? She never does it to my husband, she only licks his face and ears. She will be playing on my lap and suddenly look at me, growl, bark, and lunge at my face!! She had only gotten me once. I push her off and say no. Saying ET ET, or Hey doesn't work with her! I really want this to stop. I've also tried shaking a Tupperware filled with coins. It worked, at first...