Puppy Forum and Dog Forums banner

Status
Not open for further replies.
41 - 60 of 64 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1 Posts
Hey Congrats on your puppies, I'm sure they'll do you proud. I'm new to this forum as well and from the look of some of the senior members posts around here I'm fairly certain I wont stick around long (*Correction some of them on the first page seem nice*), although the Junior members all seem ok (Anyone else notice this? Do all threads on this forum wind up as witchhunts?). Perhaps if they went back to their esteemed mentors and requested a few lessons in courtesy they might not come across as aggressive genetic puritans who wouldn't seem out of place in 1939 Germany...

Anyway I am not a breeder and know little about Pom's however I believe they are breed standard because all the others have to go on is a picture and they have yet to show me any breed judging qualifications besides their own opinion, while they are your dogs and I have no reason to disbelieve you.

Have fun with your puppies!

Holy_Trojan xxx
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
3,312 Posts
Well
the poster still hasn't answered about genetic testing....

I also have to wonder WHY you would use a dog that you clearly state does not have a correct pomeranian coat.... and doesn't meet the breed standard??? it sounds like a perfect case of the "best dog is the one ya got"

what about patella clearances as I know that patellas are a problem in Pomeranians .... do you have an OFA number for that.... what about other diseases known to pomeranians.....

every breeder including myself,,,,, with winning dogs has puppies that go to pet homes..... I have two leaving this weekend.... both are puppies going on a limited registration and who are pet puppies and should not be bred for a multitude of reasons.... so having Champions in the pedigree doesn't impress me.... having a champion BIS parent doesn't impress me.

having points doesn't impress me.... any person could show their dog a bazillion times and have points.... find the right judge and if you show your dog enough or put a pro on your dog anyone can get points.... but there are reasons that dogs don't FINISH a championship..... and that is because they can't pick up majors.... that is what the major requirement is and why it is important and why a Canadian Ch. is so much easier than an AKC Ch. .... so having points ..... doesn't impress me..... It makes me wonder why you didn't wait until the pup was finished.... herself....what was the rush.... ???? points is not a title...... what about obedience or agility or anything ...... what titles are on these dogs...... because right now it looks like nothing..... and if that is the case you are missing an important aspect of breeding.... a third party to evaluate your pups and let you know they are worth breeding.

So far you haven't said anything that has changed my impression..... I don't see answers to the questions but I do see dancing around. From my perspective.... I would have loved for yo uto be able to answer the questions and prove yourself to be responsible.... it is always nice to have another responsible breeder on the board.... to bounce ideas off of.... but another backyard breeder.... no thanks.....

people who breed have a responsibility to the breed AND to the folks that ask the questions.... we might find it irritating as I stated in my earlier post but I feel that we do have to answer the questions..... and be able to clearly state why we bred the dogs we did..... and nice is not enough.... structurally why we did what we did... what were we looking to improve .....

I went to the Canadian National a few years back with my bitch and 2 puppies and she took a 3rd place in the brood bitch class..... and in that class.... what they look for is that the puppies are improved over the mother..... and we did very well with the youngest pups in the ring.... so I accomplished my goal.... my pups have improved movement and structure over their mother....

so those are my thoughts..... for the moment....
again I would like to be proven wrong....

but to be honest judging from what you have said in this thread....
I don't think I am.
s
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,895 Posts
They are cute dogs and would love to see some pics, I also cant help but remember that was the last breed that I was bit by!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,072 Posts
Here's one other thing that Shalva didn't say.

I don't see anything wrong with breeding a bitch that's only pointed, although I'd want to see one that at least had one of her majors and a performance title or two alraedy acomplished. (Seriously. An RN is NOT difficult to get.) HOwever? You said the stud dog is the one in your signature, and you didn't mention if he had points or not. Even if he is? Why on EARTH would you breed to an unfinished male when you have your choice of so many out there? Especially when the dam isn't finished either. It's not a typical situation and I'd love to hear the rationale behind it.


ETA: Also, with coat being of such importance to the breed, why would you breed a dog with a major coat fault? The one in the photo looks like he has a very open coat, and that would be terribly hard to get rid of if the genetics are anything like the genetics for coat in the breeds I'm familiar with.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12,761 Posts
I'm new to this forum as well and from the look of some of the senior members posts around here I'm fairly certain I wont stick around long

Anyway I am not a breeder and know little about Pom's however I believe they are breed standard because all the others have to go on is a picture and they have yet to show me any breed judging qualifications besides their own opinion, while they are your dogs and I have no reason to disbelieve you.
The OP stated that at least one of the dogs didn't have a good coat. What logic do you need to justify breeding a dog with a less than a perfect coat? This isn't a witch hunt, there just aren't any free passes given out to breeders when there isn't a need for more and more dogs in this world. There's enough free passes handed out already off this forum.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,355 Posts
i just want to say that, IMO, Nismo doesn't look pure Pom to me.....i have never seen that colour on a Pom for one (but i will admit, i don't know if it is allowed)....plus, the ears are quite big for a Pom (they look more like Chi or Pap ears than Pom ears).....but, one thing that wasn't asked here is she said she is AKC and CKC reg....what does the CKC stand for?.....just curious...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
564 Posts
Here are some unanswered questions I have:

1. From where did you acquire Nismo?
2. You said he was shown. How did he do?
3. Why, honestly, would you breed a dog with a less than perfect coat?
4. Do you testing for things such as patellar luxation (OFA)? Any breeder who does NOT do genetic testing is irresponsible.
5. What is the size of the male? The size of the female?
6. Are their champions in Nismo's lineage? How about the female's lineage?
7. Are you offering at LEAST a two-year genetic health guarantee with the puppies?
8. I'm not sure if you are writing up the contract for the puppies or the owner of the female is. However, I would like to know if their is a clause in the contract that states if the owner of the puppy cannot keep him/her, that the puppy MUST be returned to the breeder to ensure that the puppies won't end up at a rescue.

This isn't a witch-hunt. The OP used her pet-quality Pomeranian as a stud dog, which she should have never done. I find it funny that the folks who actually care for the idea of having only good, responsible breeders in this world are "unbelievable" whereas those who talk about how cute the puppies must be and how we're all so mean are "warm-hearted." Yeah, that makes sense :rolleyes:.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,072 Posts
The color is not abnormal for poms- it's just one of the variations on sable. If I had a working scanner, I'd scan some photos of sable poms from The Complete Pomeranian. But the coat texture's still not right, and he doesn't look to have good head type, although I'm certainly not an expert on Poms.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,819 Posts
I have been watching this for a little while.
While I understand the questions from the point of having been a breeder, and hope is just being pointed out of concern, but I think this is getting a tad bit out of hand here.
First of all, if I may make this point- remember- this is the internet, and posting other peoples personal information on a public forum, that can be read by anyone to " go after" someone whos information was posted, that they didnt know about, is not a good thing to do. PC- you do not need to post any information on who the breeders were, or thier website etc on a public forum. While I use to believe posting this information is harmless- I have witnessed it to turn out to be read by anyone, and turn out into flat out harassment to people that are not even members here..
Also ambushing because she didnt answer- anyone that has bred and has a littler will tell you- the mother and pups consumes every single MINUTE of your time and energy. And what Little time you do have is reserved for little things- you know - sleeping, uh getting something to eat, and care for the other dogs in the house. Thank goodness she has help in the house - but time is precious commodity when you have a litter.
That being said- she answered " yes I have homes- .."- one has even waited 2 years as stated. Second- the parent dogs are coming out of show lines. There was another thread ( I forgot where) that also stated, while the dogs themselves may have a fault, however the genetics and lines of the dog are to die for in quality. How many of you that breed have had a female that had some lacks in her( but good lines), but produced dynamite puppies??? - I thought so- sorry for the delay in continueing but I had my hand up as well.. And now- how many of you breeders have had knock out parents, titled to the hilt- and yet produced " pet quality pups??? I thought so- alot of us..
IMO becuase of a lack of response ( which is totally understandable with a new litter in time as I stated above), this thing went from to an extrem. Maybe its because I know PC or what- but even if I didnt know her- IMO this moved too fast from good news- to jumping to conclusions.
Remind me not to share pictures or announcements of my litters in the future... Thank you... ( off my soap box now... )
Additionally - what I have learned is that if you can find a titled dog that also has a ROM (Register of Merit)- this means not only is the parent excellent- but produces themselves as well. The problem however- as gentics is a crap shoot- even a ROM bred to a different dog its still totally possible to produce " pets" as well...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
112 Posts
Anyway I am not a breeder and know little about Pom's however I believe they are breed standard because all the others have to go on is a picture and they have yet to show me any breed judging qualifications besides their own opinion, while they are your dogs and I have no reason to disbelieve you.

Have fun with your puppies!

Holy_Trojan xxx
I know a lot about pomeranian standard, and they are bred outside of it. I believe she even admitted to that in a previous post. I have owned four pomeranians myself, and grew up with them also, ranging from champion bred pet quality to a mixed stray, belong to local pom groups and I am looking for a pomeranian mentor (to learn more about the minute detals & anything I might have missed) and I have studied/researched poms since I was 8. And just for the record, the established pomeranian standard is not my opinion. Her pom does not even resemble the "foxy" look. All of my poms are all outside of standard, the closest to description being Chico, but the are still pretty close to it. All of these dogs are either rescue, or were unwanted. Here are some pics (plus pom pics are nice to look at and hopefully lighten the mood):

(I apologize for the blurriness, my scanner is not working and I had to take a picture of a picture.(Sprite here is an example of a "foxy" pom-coat is trimmed/but she would be considered a by some to be a bit of a mix also)

(Chico a pet quality pom from show lines)

And trix (a poorly bred pomeranian with schipperke mix)- I love her dearly but as far as her being decended from a quality pom...

And Oni (the pom in my avatar)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
576 Posts
Whao!:eek: . Well I can understand about these post being posted on this thread. If you take a look at the pet quality purebreds that are in rescues and shelters, you have to ask yourself why are people breeding pet quality animals. And yes even show/working quality purebred parents even throw pet quality pups but those that are breeding these show/working quality dogs are trying to improve something in their lines. What is the OP and their mentor trying to improve? You cannot set and look at the parents you have to look at the whole picture. What can these lines from the stud do for these lines from this dam. Good breeders that breed look at what this stud or this dam can bring to the table. They look at the lines and say well this studs lines has been know to through bad hips and bad temperament so they pass on using that stud in their breeding program. You cannot set back and say well I know he hasn't the best coat and he isn't with in the standard but he was used for stud anyways, ok! why was he used? What has his lines produced that their mentor wanted to use this male dog in their breeding program?


Well anyways congrats on the litter and glad the pups have homes already.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
455 Posts
At the risk of jumping off topic here for a second- my favorite color is the " wolf sable" and blacks!
Good plan. This thread has gotten off topic enough already. Pomcrazy didn't come here for some bashing. She takes excellent care of her dogs and her litters.

I like the lighter colours. I like "fawn" (which I think is called cream in Pom-Lingo ???)


:)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,072 Posts
I really like the nice clear reds with shading, and the black/tans are so flashy.

The thing is? Most BYBs take care of their dogs. They love their dogs. Wings' breeder took great care of her dogs- they ate good food, they got to work sheep. But that didn't mean she was a good breeder. She didn't know the pedigree in the depth she should have, and inadvertantly linebred on several dogs who were known epilepsy producers. Wings' parents have been fixed now, and her breeder feels terrible- but that won't bring her back.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
188 Posts
I almost got a Pom puppy, but decided on a Shih-Tzu instead. I love the red sables! So cutee!! I also like the chocolate partis and creams. :)
 
41 - 60 of 64 Posts
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top