[JoanMc]

Our 1 yr old Golden is so difficult on walks but perfect in the house. As soon as she gets outside she pulls to the side incessantly, puts anything she can grab in her mouth from sticks to mud, to paper... anything, and now recently she has jumped on me and won't stop. I sometimes have to put her on the ground and kneel over her holding her paws down until she submits. We are using aprong collar and have tried many different suggestions to no avail. HELP

 

[LeoRose]

A few questions.... What actual training have you done with her? (Pinning a dog down is NOT training.) How long did you try it before giving up on it? How often does she actually get out on a walk?

 

[3GSD4IPO]

Dogs have oppositional reflex. They pull, we pull back, they pull harder.. and so it escalates.

You are using the prong collar incorrectly. A steady pull does little. The device is for correction and the leash must be LOOSE so the correction (a sharp yank) can be delivered and the leash immediately slackened again. Corrections can ONLY be effective if the dog FIRST knows what you want.. and this dog hasn't a clue.

So let's start over. First you need to teach the dog that you are worth paying attention to. This is a dog breed that loves food. Teach her that paying attention to you gets her a small treat. Start in the house. Every time she looks at you say YES! and give her food AT YOU. Pretty soon she will focus on you and eventually you can use a word such as "watch" or "look." I personally do not do that.. I teach focus with no words.. but I am also going to teach my dog a LOT of things and compete with him and he learns to focus on my for heeling and simple walking to get from here to there.

In your case I suggest you decide walking the dog is going to be going no where for awhile. I would go out with treats.. the instant she starts to move away to pull, you go the opposite direction.. when she turns to come with you (the leash goes slack) offer a bit of food reward.. then she will most likely head off again.. and again you turn and rinse and repeat going different directions rewarding her each time the leash slacks and she comes to catch up with you.

Pretty soon, if you execute this correctly she will start to pay attention to YOU because YOU are worth paying attention to because you don't walk a straight line and you have treats.

This will take AWHILE. No straight line walks for a few days. When she starts to follow you better and pay attention to you better you can start down the walk.. but the INSTANT she starts to pull, you must change direction.

At some point in this I would add a command cue. I like "With me" which is said when you turn and the leash slackens.. and just before you offer food. When you see another dog walker I would step aside, put your dog in a sit and ask your dog to give you attention, rewarding for eye contact.

Good luck.

 

[petpeeve]

You are using the prong collar incorrectly.

Says you.

The device is for correction and the leash must be LOOSE so the correction (a sharp yank) can be delivered and the leash immediately slackened again.

No. A prong collar is designed as a tool to abate pulling. Period. It is designed to work on the principle of negative reinforcement (R-), not positive punishment (P+) as stated in the above quote. In other words, when the dog gives in to the pressure of the collar (slack leash is achieved), the aversive stimulus (sensation of tight collar) is removed. Suddenly pulling it to create "a sharp yank" is merely the bastardization of its original intended purpose.

You really need to learn how to use tools properly before you dispense any further misinformation.


OP: I am certainly not advocating the use of any type of correction collar or punishment. Personally speaking, I firmly believe in using positive reinforcement training as much and as often as possible. But if you are dead set on using a prong collar to help alleviate LEASH PULLING, here is a video by Tyler Muto that generally describes its correct, intended application. Take note, how the relatively constant and steady leash pressure during moments of pulling is utilized. It is NOT intended to be used to produce a sharp yank.

 

[3GSD4IPO]

Says you.



No. A prong collar is designed as a tool to abate pulling. Period. It is designed to work on the principle of negative reinforcement (R-), not positive punishment (P+) as stated in the above quote. In other words, when the dog gives in to the pressure of the collar (slack leash is achieved), the aversive stimulus (sensation of tight collar) is removed. Suddenly pulling it to create "a sharp yank" is merely the bastardization of its original intended purpose.

You really need to learn how to use tools properly before you dispense any further misinformation.


OP: I am certainly not advocating the use of any type of correction collar or punishment. Personally speaking, I firmly believe in using positive reinforcement training as much and as often as possible. But if you are dead set on using a prong collar to help alleviate LEASH PULLING, here is a video by Tyler Muto that generally describes its correct, intended application. Take note, how the relatively constant and steady leash pressure during moments of pulling is utilized. It is NOT intended to be used to produce a sharp yank.

I will say this once more.
You are 100% incorrect.

IF you are using a prong collar in this manner you are doing it wrong. Train your dog and use a flat collar. Using a prong as an anti pulling device with a steady pull deaden's the dog to it, verges on cruel incorrect use and is largely ineffective and can actually hurt the skin of the dog's neck.

I don't LIKE using a prong for a variety of reasons. This incorrect use you suggest is a large misconception and is one reason. Another reason is the correction, when used correctly is highly personal. This tool is in my tool box and there is a dog or situation once in awhile where I use it, but I rather not.

I do not put it on a dog that is learning. It is a correction device. It is only used AFTER the dog TRULY knows what is being asked. If the dog elects not to do what is asked a quick meaningful pop brings the dog back.. and the instant the dog complies, the dog is rewarded heavily. Click. "Yes." Food. Toys. Voice. All of that if need be. Because that correction came from you and the dog KNOWS it came from you. It is personal.

Most of those on line prong collar trainers using it to stop pulling are doing it wrong.

This dog that the OP describes as NO IDEA what he is doing is "wrong." He has never been taught. Put a prong on him, use it correctly without any training is like taking a 6th grader learning fractions and putting that child in a calculus class.

Training to walk on a loose leash is by far an easier task by anticipating the dog tightening the leash, and turning and going a different direction so the dog must catch up. Must pay attention. EVEN THAT involves a correction as when you turn, the dog will, at first, go to the end of the leash and be stopped by the collar.

Pulling STARTS by you pulling back creating opposition reflex. As a little puppy your job is to keep slack in the leash and get your puppy to pay attention to where you are and to come with you. Never use a prong (or aversive method) to TEACH. There are better ways to TEACH (even an older dog that is pulling the leash).

 

[petpeeve]

You are 100% incorrect.

Says you.

Yes. Everyone is incorrect. Me, this forum, the prong collar trainers, in fact the entire internet ... everyone is wrong about how to stop pulling... except you.

Most of those on line prong collar trainers using it to stop pulling are doing it wrong.

Not sure if you noticed that Tyler was doing a pretty effective job in the video, without adhering to your sanctimonious sermon. But, again, everyone is wrong except you. God complex much?

Because that correction came from you and the dog KNOWS it came from you. It is personal.

Ummm. In Tyler's method, just for example, the dog corrects himself. Whereby the dog gives in to the relatively gentle pressure, the handler allows the dog to hold the key to his own consequences. There is no "personal" aspect to it, as you say. There is no real connection to the handler, not in the dog's mind at least. So. Forest, meet trees. Or in other words, nearsighted much?