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Discussion Starter #1
So my plan now is to feed my new puppy TOTW. She's a 10 week old malchi & they are currently feeding her puppy chow. I'll pick her up on Friday. So I would like to know which one to use because my local TSC doesn't seem to carry the puppy formula.
 

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If they don't carry the new puppy formulas, then that is ok because all their others are ALS. All depends on what protein source you want to feed your pup. Personally I would go with Pacific Stream, but I like fish based foods.

Their puppy foods are in their two best selling formulas and that is Pacific Stream and High Prairie, if that tells you anything. High Prairie is bison and venison.
 

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you don't really need the puppy formulas.

For ToTW, High Prairie and Wetlands are the two formulas with higher meat content. Both use chicken meal for probably about half of their meat though. The Salmon formula is lower in protein content. The Lamb formula has about the same protein content as the salmon but has lower meat content since it uses a lot of pea protein.

So in terms of actual quality for the ToTW formulas, I would rank it
High Prairie
Wetlands
Pacific Stream
Sierra Mountain

It's good to rotate protein sources so if you only plan on feeding ToTW, rotating between High Prairie, Wetlands, and Pacific Stream could be a good plan.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Thanks y'all!! Can you also share with me about this rotation thing? I've not heard of it & it seems like a good idea.
I had written down the Sierra Mountain with Roasted Lamb to give her. I'll look into it more.
 

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Essentially rotating foods allows you to rotate different nutritional profiles and helps ensure the overall diet is more balanced. Even though they're all suppose to be balanced, different formulas have different nutritional profiles. Rotating protein sources may also help in avoiding the development of specific meat allergies.

Honestly when you look at kibble, ignore the names like "roasted lamb" or "roasted venison". You really only want to look at the ingredients list along with the guaranteed analysis. For example, High Prairie is suppose to be "roasted bison and roasted venison" but the meals it uses are lamb meal and chicken meal which is what makes up the bulk of the meat content in that food. So it should be called "lamb, chicken and potatoes" but that doesn't sound as nice.

Peas are generally added to a food to increase the protein content since it's cheaper than meats obviously. In the Sierra Mountain formula, the protein content is already not very high, and it has both peas and pea protein in the first 7 ingredients so you can conclude that the total meat content is relatively lower. Since High Prairie already uses lamb meal, I don't see much of a reason to feed Sierra Mountain even if it may use a bit more lamb than High Prairie.
 

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Essentially rotating foods allows you to rotate different nutritional profiles and helps ensure the overall diet is more balanced. Even though they're all suppose to be balanced, different formulas have different nutritional profiles. Rotating protein sources may also help in avoiding the development of specific meat allergies.

Honestly when you look at kibble, ignore the names like "roasted lamb" or "roasted venison". You really only want to look at the ingredients list along with the guaranteed analysis. For example, High Prairie is suppose to be "roasted bison and roasted venison" but the meals it uses are lamb meal and chicken meal which is what makes up the bulk of the meat content in that food. So it should be called "lamb, chicken and potatoes" but that doesn't sound as nice.

Peas are generally added to a food to increase the protein content since it's cheaper than meats obviously. In the Sierra Mountain formula, the protein content is already not very high, and it has both peas and pea protein in the first 7 ingredients so you can conclude that the total meat content is relatively lower. Since High Prairie already uses lamb meal, I don't see much of a reason to feed Sierra Mountain even if it may use a bit more lamb than High Prairie.
I just wanted to say... Good post!
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Ok yeah that makes sense!! Thanks for the info!! Does anyone know the size of the kibbles? My little girl is a small breed so I hope they aren't gonna be too big for her. Maybe I'll need to smash them up some....
 

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The kibbles aren't too big. But sometimes you have to soak puppies' kibble when they're very young.
 

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The recommended protein for a puppy is 28% the fat is 17%. TOTW puppy formulas or the pacific stream formula or sierrea mountain which has 25% protein and 15% fat,its close enough to be ok if you rotate.The other formulas are to high in protein and to low in fat for a puppy.
 

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I'm switching my boxer slowly over to TOTW Pacific Stream. He came to me on Victor from the boxer rescue, which has given him loose stools (even after the settling in, new dog period). I've had good luck with boxers in the past on TOTW, so I thought I'd try it with this dog. I know it's made by Diamond, but the other grain free kibbles are too pricey for me, considering how much he eats! Most of the issues with Diamond foods are making humans sick, not the dogs. Just make sure you wash your hands thoroughly after handling it, and you should be fine.

Also, don't start switching immediately, even though the current food isn't good. The puppy will already be stressed out at first in her new home, which can cause stomach upset - you don't want to add to it. Wait a week or two until the puppy is fully settled in, then start switching her over slowly, taking 10 days to two weeks to do it (or more if you find the puppy's tummy is sensitive). Start with 1/4 new food-3/4 old food, then 1/2 and 1/2, then 3/4 new-1/4 old, then finally, all new. With a senstitive stomached dog, it may take up to a month to make the transition. Keep your eye on the poo, firm is good; runny obviously means to back off a little and take it slower.

BTW - congrats on your new puppy! Be sure to post pictures when she comes home! What's her name going to be?
 

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The other formulas are to high in protein and to low in fat for a puppy.
What other formulas? High Prairie and Wetlands are higher in fat (18%) than Pacific Stream and Sierra Mountain (15%).
 

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I just wanted to say... Good post!
lol thx

The recommended protein for a puppy is 28% the fat is 17%.
I'm curious where are you getting these numbers?

Cause when you look at something like Orijen, their puppy formula is 40% protein, 20% fat. Even their large breed puppy formula is 38% protein and has a comparable kcal/kg value as TotW high prairie. Similarly, Wellness Core puppy and Blue Wilderness puppy also have similar kcal/kg values as high prairie and 36% protein. So all of these puppy formulas would be feeding more protein than TotW high prairie/wetlands.
 

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There is also High Priare Canine,the protein is 32% to high for a puppy.
Yeah, that's not correct. Puppy formulas are often higher protein than adult formulas. And while ToTW has introduced puppy formulas, the ones that existed before are still all life stages foods and fine for puppies. I assume you're thinking of the old myth that high protein makes dog grow too fast, but that's not true. Overfeeding (any food) makes puppies grow too fast.
 

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lol thx



I'm curious where are you getting these numbers?



Cause when you look at something like Orijen, their puppy formula is 40% protein, 20% fat. Even their large breed puppy formula is 38% protein and has a comparable kcal/kg value as TotW high prairie. Similarly, Wellness Core puppy and Blue Wilderness puppy also have similar kcal/kg values as high prairie and 36% protein. So all of these puppy formulas would be feeding more protein than TotW high prairie/wetlands.
My vet..always had worked for me and my dogs,never any joint issues and so forth.
(for puppies)
3. Protein: As a percent of diet on a dry weight basis should range between 15%- 27% (AAFCO recommends minumum of 22%). The ideal protein concentration is difficult to specify, since it is, in part dependent upon biological value of the protein source; (i.e. if of high biological value, then less is needed {more is assimilated} and the lower end of the range is desired). Protein markedly above the upper limit described here will be converted to energy, rather then incorporated into protein tissue. This will, therefore, add to the energy burden, and potentiate the problems associated with excess energy consumption, as described above
 

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Protein markedly above the upper limit described here will be converted to energy, rather then incorporated into protein tissue. This will, therefore, add to the energy burden, and potentiate the problems associated with excess energy consumption, as described above
A problem which is entirely eliminated by not overfeeding. Any excess "energy burdern" (calories) will cause unhealthy weight gain/too quick of growth, regardless of whether it's coming from protein, fat or carbohydrates. So you have to look at the calories per cup of a given food and adjust accordingly. What you're saying only makes sense with the assumption that a person should and would feed the same amount of food, whether that food is something low in protein/fat/calories, like dog chow, as they would a food high in protein/fat/calories. Which should never be the case. If a food is higher in calories for whatever reason, you should always feed less of it.

You're either misinterpreting your vet or they are not well-informed on nutrition because what you're saying doesn't make sense. I don't think it's harmful to choose a moderate protein food over a high protein food, but it is not correct that this is a must. And the idea that it must be true because it's always worked for you is fallacy. You're basing your opinion on anecdote instead of actual scientific fact.

It's like saying, "I've never been attacked by a vampire because I always keep garlic around." If you stopped using garlic, you wouldn't necessarily develop a vampire problem just because you didn't have one when you used garlic. See what I mean?
 

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I can't imagine a dog food with only 15% protein DMB :eek:. I think the bunny chow has more protein than that.

Since raw meat is something like 80% protein DMB, and a lot of people raise puppies on prey model raw, and they grow up just fine, I'm gonna say it's not the protein that's the problem.
 

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I can't imagine a dog food with only 15% protein DMB :eek:. I think the bunny chow has more protein than that.

Since raw meat is something like 80% protein DMB, and a lot of people raise puppies on prey model raw, and they grow up just fine, I'm gonna say it's not the protein that's the problem.

28 protein
 

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28 protein
The info you quoted from your vet said between 15% and 27%. I was just commenting on the lower range of that. I'm not sure they make a meat-containing dog food with that low of protein.

I ran the percentages from some commercial raw food I have in the freezer. On a dry matter basis, 71% protein.
 
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