Puppy Forum and Dog Forums banner

1 - 20 of 21 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
22 Posts
Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Hello Everyone,

I need some feedback about a situation from experienced dog lovers who had purchased dogs from a breeder or breed themselves. Please don't hate me for planning to purchase a dog from a breeder when there are so many available from rescues. I will explain that first.

I was looking for a small Bichon type dog without temper tantrums for my mother who lives at home whole day. She is retd. and I thought a companion dog would be perfect for her. During my research I found out that Coton de Tulear fits the bill perfectly. Mom also liked the white furball. Hence, we decided to get an all white Coton. Search on Petfinder for several months did not yield much success and I decided to check the breeders. I found one breeder within driving distance and found that the puppies will be available within a year or so.

The breeder has been exceptionally nice in communication thru email exchanges. I felt very comfortable dealing with the person. Both the parents are also onsite with known lineage. My only requirement has always been an "All white sociable pup". I did not care about gender or pedigrees.

Fast forward a few months, puppies were born. The breeder got 3 all white pups, 2 males and 1 female. There are also 5 pups with spots. I did not know if all the pups were spoken for or not. Since this is the first time I was dealing with a breeder and for that matter buying a dog, I had several questions and was completely unsure of the puppy selection/reservation process.

When the pups were approximately 3 weeks old the breeder asked me what I thought about getting the female all white pup. I know the female pup is from her favorite dog. So, I was undoubtedly very happy. My mom also saw many videos of the mother of the pup. Before agreeing to choose the puppy, I checked on the internet to find out what should be the right process of choosing a pup from the litter.


http://www.aspca.org/Pet-care/virtual-pet-behaviorist/dog-articles/choosing-a-puppy-from-a-litter


So, I thought it would be the best for me to see the puppy myself before agreeing to have the one offered via email. Hence, I wrote this email (exact words with personal identity references removed) to the breeder:

"Thanks for your email and videos. I know how much you like <<mom of the puppy>>. So, naturally, I will be very happy to have her female. For me it is very important that the puppy fits our family setup well. As you have exchanged emails with me for several months now, you have somewhat of a good idea about what we are looking for. I will be happy with an all white social pup. It is also the primary reason why did not go to rescues. Hence, I will leave the decision to you for now. But, please allow me to make the choice when I get to come visit you when Mommies are ready to show off their pups. When pups reach around 6-7 weeks of age, I think mommies will be comfortable. But, I leave it up to you to determine the date and time."

Then I got the response below from the breeder that made me think that I made her very upset with the email.

"I am a little confused with your e-mail. Please explain. I know you want to visit and meet the puppy . I won't be allowing visitors till after the shots , and around 8 weeks of age. By then most of the puppies I hope will be promised to people also who have expressed a desire for a specific kind of puppy,this is why I take applications and have them sold before they are born. ...

I am not a pet store where people will be coming and saying I want that one and so on since I have purebred dogs and breed for the good of the breed and I have an obligations to keep and breed or have breeders that are looking for showdogs that are white , that cost far more than Pet/quality dogs since they are not born in every litter and it took me 2 years to even get a breedable one and I had to go out of the country to get one ., <<Puppy's dad>> also came from Denmark. so I have the best you can get. I again will not know what is breedable till 8 weeks of age when they will be analyzed by several breeders as well as myself....

I think for now I want and will back off the offer of <<Puppy's mom's>> white female since you are not sure what you want . I will contact you and let you know when you can come and look at the puppies probably around or by 8 weeks when they have had shots and are not vulnerable to infection. I will know more of what is available for pet quality companion puppies by then. It was hard to just decide to do that anyway."


So, it seems to me that she does not want to offer me the puppy she had offered me earlier because of my email. Personally, I do not know where to go from here. The dog costs approximately $2.5k with $400 I put towards deposit. I have not told my mother about the situation yet and she is mentally prepared to see this lil' puppy at home in next 6-10 weeks or so.

I have no ill-feelings towards the breeder. I am just confused, that's all. I would like to know if I was out of the line in my email. I also would like to know what should be my proper etiquette and rights when I communicate my needs to a breeder. I want a completely unbiased opinion and will be willing to answer questions that you may have as long as they are impersonal.

Looking forward to hear from you all.

Thanks.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
20,765 Posts
I'm not certain of the smaller details (I'll leave that to someone with more experience dealing with breeders), but many of the better breeders prefer to pick a puppy for you, based on the wants/needs that you've communicated to them, because they know the pups best and can match the pup's personality to your situation more accurately. Which means, you don't really get to choose from the pups, because they have them all matched up already. (The ASPCA article is undoubtedly referring to picking a puppy out of a random litter at the shelter, not from a breeder who knows what they're doing).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,435 Posts
She sounds like a good breeder. Most breeders I know do the same thing -- when the pups are around 8 weeks old, they invite a bunch of breeder acquaintances over to help them judge all of the pups and decide which are show/breeding quality and which are pet quality. The show/breeding ones are sold to other breeders, if possible, because breeders are all working to produce better pups with every litter -- they only want to breed the highest-quality dogs. Then the breeder will match the remaining pups to pet homes depending on temperament (of the pup and the new owners!). If the woman suggested a certain puppy to you after talking to you a bunch, that's because she had decided that it was the best pup for you -- so I can understand why she's annoyed now.

I like this blog post (from a corgi breeder) about puppy buyer etiquette. Here's the relevant bit:

PLEASE DO NOT EXPECT TO CHOOSE YOUR PUPPY. This one drives puppy buyers CRAZY. I know this, trust me. I have a lot of sympathy because I’ve been there. But the fact is that when you come into my house and look at the eight-week-old puppies and one comes up and tugs on your pant leg and you look at me, enraptured, and say “THIS IS IT! He chose ME,” I’ve been looking at people coming into the house all week, and every single time this same puppy has come up and tugged at them and every single one of them have said to me “THIS IS IT!”

What you are seeing is not reality. You are seeing the most outgoing puppy, or you’ve fallen in love with the one that has the most white, or the one that has a different look from the rest of the litter (when I had one blue girl puppy in a litter of black boys, every human that came in the house wanted her; when I had one black girl puppy in a litter of blue boys everyone kept talking about how much they loved HER), or the one that’s been (accidentally) featured the most in the pictures I’ve posted. Or, sometimes, you have a very good instinctive eye and you’re picking the puppy that’s the best put together of the litter. And that puppy, of course, is mine, and you’re going to have to pry him out of my cold dead hands.

My responsibility is not to make you happy. And that, dear friends, is why I am posting this now, and not when I have a bunch of actual puppy buyers around . But it’s the truth. My responsibility is to the BREED first. That’s why my first priority in placing puppies is the show owners, because they are the ones that will (if all goes well) use this dog to keep the breed going. It’s not that I like them better than I like you; it’s that I have to be extremely careful who I place with them so that they can make breeding decisions with the very best genetic material I can hand them. My second responsibility is to the PUPPY. I will place each puppy where I feel that it has the best chance of success and the optimal environment to thrive.

So while I do care, and I will try to take your preferences into account, do not expect to walk into my living room and put your hand in the box and pick whatever puppy you want. And do not expect to be given priority pick because you contacted me first; conversely, do not expect that because you came along late you somehow won’t get a good puppy. Sometimes the person who calls me when the puppies are seven and a half weeks old ends up with what I’d consider the “pick” for various reasons (sometimes because somebody called me up and said they’d gotten a puppy from someone else; see rule 4 above). I am going to try to do my absolute best to match puppies to owners as objectively as I can, not according to who called first.
If I were you, I'd write back and tell her you're sorry, and that you didn't realize that good breeders usually choose puppies for buyers. Tell her that this is your first time buying from a good breeder. Tell her you trust her and that you can't wait to meet the pups when they are eight weeks old.

And don't worry about DF members attacking you for going to a good breeder. Many of us here own dogs from good breeders. There are a few good breeders who post on this forum when they have a new litter, and we're all excited to see the pups. We only get annoyed about irresponsible breeding and pet stores/big commercial breeding facilities, stuff like that.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,074 Posts
Very good post, cranastic I am also one of those that "waaaah" because they can pick their puppy lol now of I ever be a pup from a breeder again I will let them decide for me :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,435 Posts
I didn't know whether I was getting Casper or his brother until I picked him up at the airport! Don't get me wrong, I kind of hated not being able to choose, but I ended up with a great little dog who I love very much. When I got Crystal, she was already an adult (she'd been held back for show but after earning a few points, got too big), so I didn't have to worry about choosing there. I became friends with her breeder after that, and I have visited and played with her litters each year. I have listened to her talk about how she and her friends evaluate puppies, and how she chooses where to send each pup (from her last litter, she actually sent the pick pup to a pet home and kept second pick for breeding, based on their temperaments and what she wanted to use in her breeding program).

I should point out that "pet quality" doesn't mean bad in any way. Sometimes their color's not right, sometimes they are a little taller or shorter than standard, sometimes their ears or tail are set a little too high or low. Sometimes their structure is not as good as the show pups', but not bad enough to cause issues (and trust me, 90% of people won't notice). They are still amazing dogs from great breeders, with health guarantees and a good start on socialization and many other benefits. :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
22 Posts
Discussion Starter #6 (Edited)
Thanks for your responses. I was expecting to hear something similar in that line as well. Hence, I did not have any ill-feeling towards the breeder but, wanted to know about the process so that I could manage my own expectations (aka etiquette). Before posting here I already sent a response back to the breeder as follows:

"I will love to have <<puppy mom's>> girl and in my earlier emails I expressed that. I have never spoken to any other breeder than you. Hence, I was not sure of the process. But, now that you have explained the process, I am fine with it. Please do reserve <<puppy mom's>> girl for me. As a breeder you are in a better position to know which puppy will fit which household. I do not question that. I did not have any preference for a male or a female. And I don't. Sorry for any confusion. I did not mean to offend you in any way. Hope this resolves any misunderstanding."
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,435 Posts
She said she'd write you again once the pups were eight weeks old, so it'll probably be okay. Just hold tight and see. It seems like this was just a case of tone not coming across well in emails, so it might be a lot better in person. :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,931 Posts
She pounds like the kind of breeder I'd prefer to deal with. Breeders know the pups, as to what ones are show, pet, etc. Trust her. I do have one question for you. Why do you have to have an ll white pup, if this is a companion dog? Are you willing to get one with spots? Either way, good luck!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
176 Posts
I will be curious to see how this goes. When I got my Coton de tulear puppy I found a breeder in the state I live in. Their dog had 5 puppies and I told them my only wish was to have a female, preferable white. They ended up with 2 females. I sent them $400 to hold one for me. Since I was the first to put money down on one I got to go and choose which one I wanted. She cost us $1200...I know steep but we really wanted this kind of dog. She did have a tiny patch of black on one ear. I do want to say that most Coton's with color end up fading to white eventually. Good luck with it. I think you are making a good choice. Our little gal housetrained herself with a bell at our patio door in 3 days!:clap2:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
22 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
I am very ashamed of myself. Mostly for what I did. I did a lot of research on the breed and in choosing a breeder. However, I missed the research on puppy buyer etiquette. I read ASPCA guidelines and so, I ended up coming across as a jackass. I guess a momentary lapse of reason got better of me. She offered me exactly what I wanted and the puppy I wanted. But, I acted like a complete moron and wanted to make the final choice which probably would have been wrong anyway.

To answer the question about a white pup.. we wanted an all white Coton pup. I don't know if I'd go for anything else. Whether with spots or without a correctly matched dog is always a great pet. It's just a personal preference for me to have an all white Cottonball.

This whole ordeal taught me a great lesson in life. Hope I learn to appreciate gestures of kindness and love. I am so ashamed.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,931 Posts
I am very ashamed of myself. Mostly for what I did. I did a lot of research on the breed and in choosing a breeder. However, I missed the research on puppy buyer etiquette. I read ASPCA guidelines and so, I ended up coming across as a jackass. I guess a momentary lapse of reason got better of me. She offered me exactly what I wanted and the puppy I wanted. But, I acted like a complete moron and wanted to make the final choice which probably would have been wrong anyway.

To answer the question about a white pup.. we wanted an all white Coton pup. I don't know if I'd go for anything else. Whether with spots or without a correctly matched dog is always a great pet. It's just a personal preference for me to have an all white Cottonball.

This whole ordeal taught me a great lesson in life. Hope I learn to appreciate gestures of kindness and love. I am so ashamed.
Dont be ashamed, you didn't know. I'm a little lost as to whether you have a chance of getting a puppy or not; do you? Apologize for coming along like a jacka**, explain this is your first time dealing with a reputable breeder.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
1,625 Posts
Nothing wrong in a good (or great breeder).
Its the good breeders that got me the temperament of a dog that suits my family's lifestyle & needs.
Its my good breeder that got me Roman and he is the greatest in mine eyes...
And a great off leash companion too!

So kudos to all the great breeders!

Roman
Romman.jpg
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
22 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
Dont be ashamed, you didn't know. I'm a little lost as to whether you have a chance of getting a puppy or not; do you? Apologize for coming along like a jacka**, explain this is your first time dealing with a reputable breeder.
The breeder I chose is a first time breeder. The reasons I chose were as follows:

1. Lives within drivable distance. approx 130 miles from where I live.
2. Have both parents on site.
3. First time breeder and the dogs are pets - not kenneled.
4. Excellent, gem of a person to talk to. < Hence, I consider myself a total jackass>

I don't know whether I will get a puppy or not. Honestly, I do not care if I do not get the puppy. What truly bothers me is my lack of sense in understanding a gesture of kindness and love. It bothers me to a great extent. Wish I found this forum earlier and interacted with you all before unleashing my hardassness on the breeder.

If anyone is looking for a code of ethics Coton breeder in Maryland, I will highly recommend this person regardless of the fact whether I get a puppy or not. I don't know if I even deserve a puppy anymore. What's the point of being a human being if you don't know the expression of kindness?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
261 Posts
By the time I contacted my breeder all of Gogo's littermates were already spoken for, but she still asked about my lifestyle and made sure he was the right fit for us. It definitely can be intimidating working with a breeder, when you (and me) have no experience at all. I hope you and the breeder work it out and you get your little girl!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
20,765 Posts
I'm. . .kind of confused. If all you wrote was what you posted up there ^^, there's nothing unkind or jerkwad-ish about it. You didn't know the procedure, that's all. Did you write something else a lot more jerkwad-ish that you didn't post here:?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,435 Posts
Yeah, I don't get it either. The things you posted were maybe a little... curt, not really rude but curt, and the breeder sounded miffed because, as she said, she's not a pet store and people don't get to come in and take the first pup they decide they like best. But she did say that she'd let you know when the pups are old enough that you can visit, so it doesn't sound like all hope is lost!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
22 Posts
Discussion Starter #17
Did you write something else a lot more jerkwad-ish that you didn't post here:?
Nope. I cut and pasted exactly what I wrote in it's entirety and removed personal reference.

Good news is that the breeder has accepted my apologies. I really don't care if I get a puppy anymore or not. But, thank you all very much for your help and kind words.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,931 Posts
Nope. I cut and pasted exactly what I wrote in it's entirety and removed personal reference.

Good news is that the breeder has accepted my apologies. I really don't care if I get a puppy anymore or not. But, thank you all very much for your help and kind words.
Please keep us updated. I really want o know the outcome.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,435 Posts
Good news is that the breeder has accepted my apologies. I really don't care if I get a puppy anymore or not. But, thank you all very much for your help and kind words.
I think you will get one. I'm glad you two worked things out! Please do keep us updated (and post puppy pics when you get one)!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
20,765 Posts
Nope. I cut and pasted exactly what I wrote in it's entirety and removed personal reference.

Good news is that the breeder has accepted my apologies. I really don't care if I get a puppy anymore or not. But, thank you all very much for your help and kind words.
Well, if that's everything you said, I don't know why you're saying you're so unkind that you don't deserve a puppy. . .that seems harsh. But I hope everything works out for you.
 
1 - 20 of 21 Posts
Top