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As a home owner I can tell you I would be reluctant to rent out my house to people who own a pit bull just for liability reasons. If anything happened and the dog attacked someone regardless of why, I can be just as liable as the renters. If someone falsely claims their dog is a boxer and it attacks someone and is later proven to be a pit bull I'm still potentially liable and I have to go through the hassle of evicting someone. No thanks.
 

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I would like to inject some thought strictly for an honest exchange of view. I was thinking of starting a separate thread titled, The American Pit Bull the Devil Dog??. I would like to express what I feel many dog owners feel if not the majority but would not come out candid and say.

In my opinion the dog as well as the owners share equally responsibility for the tearing the face off a child , or putting the mail man in the hospital, or killing some ones beloved small dog. Have you ever asked yourself why the military, Police, do not prefer using APBT for guard or police work duty. The dog can be plain unpredictable, and very easy to bring out their bad side. When the Germans developed the German Breeds they did a wonderfull job of developing a breed dog that is both courageous, very predictable, and can change handles with out much problems.

In todays paper there is a for sale APBT $100, no papers. So how many people will have your expertise and purchase these dogs, and how many people that like the fighting instinct these dog have and bring it out at dog parks and the like.

What I am getting at, I love dogs but getting a little pissed off at the APBT for bringing down all the large breeds that do not deserve the reputation the PB are giving them. I know how many times I hear it the owner never the dog, but with that said these dog were breed to fight and kill and it is easy to bring that instnict out even without special skills. This is why idiots like the dog owner that attacked the mail man was able to make a bad breed act bad. How often compared to dobbies, GS, do you hear an idiot owner able to train the dog to kill other dogs for fun and attack human. I am sorry I was always indifferent to the breed, but bringing down other breeds I have come to love, makes me angry the breed was ever developed.

An honest opinion from a dog person, not a dog owner!!!!!!!!!!!
No person I've spoken to has expressed anger at the APBT for bringing down other breeds. From what I've seen, people get angry at Pits for being "mean" "vicious" "unpredictable." Yet I'd venture to guess that most of them can't even pick out an APBT in a group of similar dogs.

I just wrote a 15 page project for college that proved one very important thing. The amount of "Pit Bulls" in this country DWARFS that of any other breed. No estimation of dog population is perfect, but walk into a shelter - what do you see? Walk into a city - what do you see? These dogs are everywhere and they're likely to fall into the wrong hands because of that. They're a product of their enormous population.

BTW, you've got one big flaw in your argument.. Pit Bulls were bred to attack and kill.. DOGS. Not people. Ever. They were not designed as guard dogs. I can't *believe* someone would blame the dog for attacks like these. Blame the owners for not keeping aggressive dogs confined and not socializing their animals. Seriously, what does blaming the dog even accomplish anyway?
 

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ok after reviewing Bob's posts and calming down QUITE a bit I feel im ready to address this...


Bob...you are flat out WRONG. period. plain and simple.

a. pit bulls ARE in FACT, police dogs. there are many different types of police dogs, from attack dogs to detection dogs and beyond.

Pit Bulls are typically used in police DETECTION work, I.e scenting for drugs, bombs, cadavers etc.

there are two reasons they AREN'T used in police bitework.

1. they are typically too friendly. they tend to lack the defensive, wary nature that makes the GSD such an excellent choice for BITEWORK.

2. pit bulls are GRIPPING dogs. they come down from a group of dogs that were bred to grip and hold on. they have a powerful instnct not to let go. this is a salient point because in bitework the VERY most important command is the "out" or "off" command. this DOESN'T mean they are vicious in the slightest. it means that IF they are CONDITIONED to be aggressive...they will likely not let go...which brings me to my next point.

b. that gripping instinct is why some pit attacks appear to be so horrible. its simple physics. if a dog with a scissor bite grips onto the...say arm...of a person and that person flails around in pain, there will be more trauma to the area and the more the dog holds on, the more the opportunity there is for damage.

c. dogs have very primal instincts. fight, flee, copulate, eat, defecate. because of the way HUMAN society is structured, the NATURAL instinct of EVERY dog regardless of breed to aggress is simply not accepted by US. so we use nurture to counteract the urging of a dog's instinct. if you DON'T nurture your dog to be able to ignore that NATURAL instinct, he will exhibit signs of it...everything from staring attentively at running squirrels to outright attacks.

that are not vicious..because the dog doesn't know any better.

bob. you are wrong. and in your expression of that rather erroneous idea, you have seriously insulted me and other members.

I am putting you on ignore. good day.
 

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I just wrote a 15 page project for college that proved one very important thing. The amount of "Pit Bulls" in this country DWARFS that of any other breed. No estimation of dog population is perfect, but walk into a shelter - what do you see? Walk into a city - what do you see? These dogs are everywhere and they're likely to fall into the wrong hands because of that. They're a product of their enormous population.
I don't think that's correct. The lab is consistently at the top of the most popular dog breeds regardless of how you look at it. The problem is that "pit bull" isn't really defined. It's a broad very inclusive term that encompasses a number of different breeds. Just because you see them most often in shelters doesn't mean they're the most popular breed. In fact, it's the opposite. They're probably more likely to be given up because they're more likely to have aggressive tendencies.

I don't think any of my neighbors in my area own a pit bull. I've never seen any of them walking one. I see a lot of labs, beagles, retrievers, etc... (which holds with the lists you see around the 'net), but don't think I've seen many, if any, pit bulls. This is just my experience though and is far from scientific.
 

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I don't think that's correct. The lab is consistently at the top of the most popular dog breeds regardless of how you look at it. The problem is that "pit bull" isn't really defined. It's a broad very inclusive term that encompasses a number of different breeds. Just because you see them most often in shelters doesn't mean they're the most popular breed. In fact, it's the opposite. They're probably more likely to be given up because they're more likely to have aggressive tendencies.

I don't think any of my neighbors in my area own a pit bull. I've never seen any of them walking one. I see a lot of labs, beagles, retrievers, etc... (which holds with the lists you see around the 'net), but don't think I've seen many, if any, pit bulls. This is just my experience though and is far from scientific.
I think it depends on your area. Where I live now, I don't know anyone with a pit bull. Where I used to live, you'd see them all over. The shelter here still has a pit/mix or two at all times. The shelter there though was about half full of pit bulls. We're talking 10-20 pits at a time whereas there'd be about 5 or so labs.

I question the population statistics you see online. Many times it's a list of registered dogs, in which case labs are most popular. How many pit bulls do you know? How many are registered? I've even seen one use AKC registration statistics to show how 'over-represented' pit bull bites are. Um... how many pit bulls (generic) are AKC registered? A very very very minute amount of them.

I also think the reason pits end up in shelters is in not at all related to aggression. Sure, maybe a few get dumped for being dog aggressive, but the breed is also very energetic, hard headed at times, and they need quite a bit of exercise. BCs are very prevalent in shelters too for that reason. You get dogs that need a lot of work and then the owners dont' understand them, sure you're going to get a lot showing up with behavioral problems. I also think they unfortunately attract some of the worst kinds of owners and it's so easy to find a litter of pit bulls via craigslist or classifieds. It's not hard for just anyone to go out and get one. In shelters you do see certain breeds over or under represented, for example shelties and goldens are somewhat popular where I live yet I've never seen one in the shelter. Things like dachshunds though seem really over-represented as I don't see that many around but we always have 2-3 in the shelter.

Sheesh this got off topic. :confused:
 

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well..lets go full circle and bring it back on topic with this..

one of the reasons there are such high populations of pits in shelters is because of things like biased insurance clauses and rental rules forcing people to give up their dogs....

its just..ridiculous.
 

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The only unpredictable animals are humans.
If did some research, you will know why pitbulls aren't uses as guard dog.
Unfortunately the pitbull is just a unlucky breed. There are other breeds that were breed for the same reason as the pitbull, they are fine.
They do have pitbulls in police and military.

The breed doesn't matter, if you fillfull the dog's needs and train the dog.
 

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Same around here , all over , private house or apt. To much bad media and the insurance companies pick up on it and wont allow for liability reasons.




It is the insurance companies who put the squash on pits.She looks like a
 

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I question the population statistics you see online. Many times it's a list of registered dogs, in which case labs are most popular. How many pit bulls do you know? How many are registered? I've even seen one use AKC registration statistics to show how 'over-represented' pit bull bites are. Um... how many pit bulls (generic) are AKC registered? A very very very minute amount of them.
I just checked. There is no AKC "Pit Bull". Some of the other breeds that often are categorized as "pit bulls" are recognized, but no pit bull. It is a recognized breed by the UKC where it's the number 2 registered breed interestingly enough. Labs are down at 8 on their list and four of the top 5 are coonhounds so I find the list a bit questionable. I'm racking my brain to see if I've ever run into someone who owned any sort of coonhound.
 

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I don't think that's correct. The lab is consistently at the top of the most popular dog breeds regardless of how you look at it. The problem is that "pit bull" isn't really defined. It's a broad very inclusive term that encompasses a number of different breeds. Just because you see them most often in shelters doesn't mean they're the most popular breed. In fact, it's the opposite. They're probably more likely to be given up because they're more likely to have aggressive tendencies.

I don't think any of my neighbors in my area own a pit bull. I've never seen any of them walking one. I see a lot of labs, beagles, retrievers, etc... (which holds with the lists you see around the 'net), but don't think I've seen many, if any, pit bulls. This is just my experience though and is far from scientific.
The Lab is at the top of AKC's list. Chances are (although I'm sure it's happened many times before) using AKC statistics to reflect numbers about biting dogs just doesn't make sense especially when the APBT isn't registered (and of course there's the whole AST=APBT thing). It all depends where you look.

Where I live there are Pit Bulls everywhere (NYC). Perhaps its different in other parts of the countries, but I know in my city, we have tons of them. Not only in shelters.. I see them at dog parks, walking on the street, in training classes, Petsmart, etc.

Are they more likely to have aggressive tendencies, though? Maybe if the owner can't put up with dog aggression. But I don't think that human aggression is the number one reason people give Pits up. Check out Bad Rap's blog.. there are TONS of people about to lose their homes due to the economy.

From pitbullsontheweb.com:

Important Fact: The ADBA registered 220,000 APBTs in 1999, making them the #1 dog in America. According to the latest statistics, Pit Bulls do NOT top the chart when it comes to deadly dog attacks.
You're right, numbers lie.. and dog population numbers are extremely difficult to sort through. But the dog bite statistics lie, too, because they report the NUMBER of dogs of a given breed who have been, NOT the PERCENTAGE of the breed's population. They also don't take into account the circumstances by which the dog was raised. Is it possible that irresponsible people are more drawn to Pit Bulls than they would be to other dogs? I'd say it's pretty possible. Not that irresponsible people are the ONLY ones who own them, just saying they're popular among those up to no good as well. Would Labs, if raised the way some Pit Bulls are, account for just as many attacks?

It's a whole bunch of jibberish.. and because of all the confusion, it's totally unfair to frame one breed or breed type
 

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The Lab is at the top of AKC's list. Chances are (although I'm sure it's happened many times before) using AKC statistics to reflect numbers about biting dogs just doesn't make sense especially when the APBT isn't registered (and of course there's the whole AST=APBT thing). It all depends where you look.
Well, like I said it is registered with the UKC, but not the AKC so you're right the numbers are definitely confusing. I'd go as far as to say that most people don't register their dogs. I don't think I've ever owned a registered dog in my life. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying registering a dog is bad, I'm just saying I don't think a lot of people do it.

Where I live there are Pit Bulls everywhere (NYC). Perhaps its different in other parts of the countries, but I know in my city, we have tons of them. Not only in shelters.. I see them at dog parks, walking on the street, in training classes, Petsmart, etc.
I just checked the stats on dog licenses here locally. (This is deceiving too as many people probably don't bother getting licenses for their dogs as it's not a very strongly enforced law). The Terrier was number 1 ('cuz that's not a vague breed description) with the "mix breed" as number 2 and the lab as number 3.

Are they more likely to have aggressive tendencies, though? Maybe if the owner can't put up with dog aggression. But I don't think that human aggression is the number one reason people give Pits up. Check out Bad Rap's blog.. there are TONS of people about to lose their homes due to the economy.
I think they are just because of the breed. They are/were bred originally as fighting dogs. By their nature they're dog aggressive or at the very least animal aggressive. It's the same as terriers being notorious diggers. They were bred as ratters so that's their nature. Can you deal with it? Absolutely you can. It takes time and training like anything else. I couldn't find any stats on reasons for pit bull surrender, but I'd bet aggression (toward humans, dogs or animals) would be on there. They also do need a lot of exercise as someone pointed out and can be destructive like any other dog so I wouldn't be surprised to see that on there as well.

You're right, numbers lie.. and dog population numbers are extremely difficult to sort through. But the dog bite statistics lie, too, because they report the NUMBER of dogs of a given breed who have been, NOT the PERCENTAGE of the breed's population. They also don't take into account the circumstances by which the dog was raised. Is it possible that irresponsible people are more drawn to Pit Bulls than they would be to other dogs? I'd say it's pretty possible. Not that irresponsible people are the ONLY ones who own them, just saying they're popular among those up to no good as well. Would Labs, if raised the way some Pit Bulls are, account for just as many attacks?

It's a whole bunch of jibberish.. and because of all the confusion, it's totally unfair to frame one breed or breed type
I would not disagree with any of that.
 

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Discussion Starter #52
I think it makes the situation more complex because people use the term 'pit bull' to categorize 'pit bull-like dogs'. This could be any number of dogs! If they are referring to the American Pit Bull Terrier then what if I went to move somewhere with my AKC American Staffordshire Terrier? I kind of wonder what a complex or insurance company would say to that??

As far as I'm concerned people will call APBTs, AmStaffs, Staffordshire Bull Terriers, Dogo Argentino...and many others Pit Bulls...but they aren't. I'd be curious to know what an insurance company's definition of a "pit bull" is....
 

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Darkmoon, " ...That you know is full of Pit bull Owners"! Yes I knew, and wanted to test the waters how owners of this breed would react. I have absolutely nothing against the APBT, or the PB. I, and I am sure others have noticed one of the most popular breed here always poping up is, yes you guessed it.

So I interjected this contentious input, to see how lovers of this breed would respond, well, I am just bowled over by your unruffled composure. Your dogs are very luckey to have such masters. I am sorry I went about it the way i did, I only Hope Zim forgives me, I punch her eggs every time I see them. So I will leave you with this.............

"Handle every stressful situation like a dog". " If you can't eat it, or play with it, pee on it and walk away"! :)

BTW, you all passed with the highest maximum grades!!
 

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I think it makes the situation more complex because people use the term 'pit bull' to categorize 'pit bull-like dogs'. This could be any number of dogs! If they are referring to the American Pit Bull Terrier then what if I went to move somewhere with my AKC American Staffordshire Terrier? I kind of wonder what a complex or insurance company would say to that??

As far as I'm concerned people will call APBTs, AmStaffs, Staffordshire Bull Terriers, Dogo Argentino...and many others Pit Bulls...but they aren't. I'd be curious to know what an insurance company's definition of a "pit bull" is....
When I was looking for an apartment I got curious so I asked them to define 'pit bull' for me. They responded with 'anything that looks like a pit bull'. Your dog doesn't even have to be a 'pit bull' breed, it just has to 'look' like one. It's really worrying me because I plan on adopting an adult. I'm going well out of my way to make sure my dog looks nothing like a pit bull. there have been a couple that I liked that I am iffy on. One looked to be a pit bull x corgi and I doubt anyone at the complex would call it a pit bull but I was pretty sure it had pit in it. Another dog I was pretty sure wasn't pit at all, but it was muscular, larger and marked similarly to a pit. I just don't want to run into an issue.

well..lets go full circle and bring it back on topic with this..

one of the reasons there are such high populations of pits in shelters is because of things like biased insurance clauses and rental rules forcing people to give up their dogs....

its just..ridiculous.
I've known that happen to someone. As well as a collie owner and a bulldog owner because they didnt' follow the renting restrictions. So I really don't recommend anyone try to lie through those. The ones that end up paying are the dogs.
 

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Discussion Starter #55
When I was looking for an apartment I got curious so I asked them to define 'pit bull' for me. They responded with 'anything that looks like a pit bull'. Your dog doesn't even have to be a 'pit bull' breed, it just has to 'look' like one.
This is what I figured. Actually in Holland they have really strict laws on pit bulls. They are banned entirely and any dog they deem to be "pit bull-like" can be either euthanized or kicked out of the country basically. I was reading the laws a while ago and they actually say "pit bull-like". It's crazy considering how liberal they are on....everything else! lol


So anyway, we went to look at this house just outside of town and I think I'm in love! It's gorgeous and the guy is super laid back! He was only concerned with dogs that might destroy the house, but otherwise he was totally cool with them :) We filled out and application and will most likely call tomorrow to take it! :) Yay!!
 

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Discussion Starter #57
I always wondered, why do people act like Pitbulls are such evil, vicious, unpredictable, untrainable monsters, when one of them is such a wonderful example of a dog, period.
I agree. It really makes me sad to think about it sometimes.

Has anyone heard the song Pit Bull Blues by John Shipe...it's an AWESOME song, but if I really think about it I do get really sad that this whole breed has been given such a bad reputation when they can really be some of the most goofy, lovable dogs!

Oh and I just saw two dogs hanging out in a truck bed waiting for their owner to come back. The Jack Russel (not that I have anything against them of course) was growling and barking at everyone and the (gorgeous) pit bull was wagging her tail incessantly at everyone who walked by. Sad.
 

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I always wondered, why do people act like Pitbulls are such evil, vicious, unpredictable, untrainable monsters, when one of them is such a wonderful example of a dog, period.

http://www.ohmidog.com/2009/03/18/the-saga-of-stubby/
The sad thing is that is just one example of the many many many wonderful PB out there...but they don't have the shock value of a good bite story so the news/media rarely reports them.....

http://www.lawdogsusa.org/gallery.html

http://www.forpitssake.org/gallery.html

http://wallacethepitbull.ning.com/group/therapydogs

http://www.rescuerehabhome.org/images/library dog 3.JPG

http://www.dogguide.net/blog/2009/02/therapy-dogs-an-indepth-interview/
 

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The sad thing is that is just one example of the many many many wonderful PB out there...but they don't have the shock value of a good bite story so the news/media rarely reports them.....

http://www.lawdogsusa.org/gallery.html

http://www.forpitssake.org/gallery.html

http://wallacethepitbull.ning.com/group/therapydogs

http://www.rescuerehabhome.org/images/library dog 3.JPG

http://www.dogguide.net/blog/2009/02/therapy-dogs-an-indepth-interview/
To be fair, why is a pit bull being nice news? It's not shock value, it's what's news.

Now I'm not going to defend the news media carte blanche. I am a reporter. I am also a pit bull owner. Actually, before I owned the breed, I wrote about a pretty vicious dog attack on a man. I think I will make a thread asking for people to pick apart the stories. I'd like to hear an honest appraisal of the depiction I painted.
 

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To be fair, why is a pit bull being nice news? It's not shock value, it's what's news.

Now I'm not going to defend the news media carte blanche. I am a reporter. I am also a pit bull owner. Actually, before I owned the breed, I wrote about a pretty vicious dog attack on a man. I think I will make a thread asking for people to pick apart the stories. I'd like to hear an honest appraisal of the depiction I painted.
Its not about pit bulls just being nice....its about them doing things above and beyond nice :)

Why is a news article about a dog attack more news worthy then another story?....what makes it better?..what makes one story "news" and another not?
 
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