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hi all,

i use an electric collar with my dog in the last month and i can say it really helps.

the problem is:

my dog is now "smart collar"... it means that it behaves good when the collar on it and when i take it off, it understands it and behaves the way it wants...

what's the way to teach the dog to quit the collar and to stay with the good results?

thanks.
 

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That's the problem with aversives like shock collars- the dog only obeys out of fear of the shock. Once you remove the fear, the dog doesn't obey, because he hasn't learned anything other than how to avoid shocks.

Throw away the shock collar and give clicker training a try. Dogs don't get clicker smart. Look up kikopup on YouTube.
 

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The collar is a inefficient way to train and you've found out the major reason why. They'll work well enough on a dog who is so slow as to not catch the connection between the collar and the jolt - which many people consider inhumaine by the way. Your dog is intelligent enough to make that connection and also intelligent enough to respond to normal training methods.

Intelligent dogs are anxious to understand their masters and want to please - they find pleasure in doing so and look forward to training sessions so they can receive the praise you bestow on them when they do something right. Food is a excellent motivater also - what I do is get a box of small kibbles instead of special training treats. Just regular dog food but a different taste than his daily stuff - salmon or deer flavor for instance.

Using both a lot of praise and some food I then spend the time the dog craves spending with me on improving and adding to his bag of tricks so to speak. You'll become a better team when your dog no longer fears you.
 

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I would have the dog wear the collar 24/7. I am not sure how you went about collar conditioning him, but if done properly a dog should not become 'collar smart'.
 

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Well did you let dog wear collar for a month or two before it's used for any actual work with your dog, it sounds like you gave the quick version of training your dog electrically. Put collar on then zap dog and then take collar off all in a month or maybe not even a month.

Above info given just in case you want to train another dog.
 

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what's the way to teach the dog to quit the collar and to stay with the good results?

thanks.
Try Communicating with your dog using your voice..
They seem to be able to understand multiple languages...
I use The English Language...
Example:
"No biting" and "PP outside"
I have been able to train my dog successfully using these words instead of clickers and electronic devices.
 

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hi all,

i use an electric collar with my dog in the last month and i can say it really helps.

the problem is:

my dog is now "smart collar"... it means that it behaves good when the collar on it and when i take it off, it understands it and behaves the way it wants...

what's the way to teach the dog to quit the collar and to stay with the good results?

thanks.
Train the dog. That's the problem with positive punishment/negative reinforcement. Dog learns how to avoid it
 

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I would disagree with you on the fact that they don't get 'clicker smart'. They totally do. The e-collar will eventually be phased out and the dog will still behave. I say find a good trainer in your area well versed in e-collar training and give them a call. It's totally worth the money.
 

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You phase out the clicker, too. Only once you do that, the dog has already learned to, well, learn. Without constant aversives.
 

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That's the problem with aversives like shock collars- the dog only obeys out of fear of the shock. Once you remove the fear, the dog doesn't obey, because he hasn't learned anything other than how to avoid shocks.>>>


learning does take place w aversive training. not saying one should not use food or clickers but lets not reshape reality. there are dogs that only work for food also. does that mean clicker training doesnt work? I dont think so.
 

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what's the way to teach the dog to quit the collar and to stay with the good results?
You can't, it's a done deal now. Collar was your primary enforcer, if the dog knows in advance that you won't have this enforcer then it is what it is. Dog learns how to avoid collar stimulation - it simply learned how to avoid it really effectively. You can just have him wear it all the time on walks... Or buy one of those fake ones.


I would have the dog wear the collar 24/7.
Don't do this, dog would get all sorts of skin problems - dog should never wear it for more than 3 to 5 hours a day. Metal pins are pretty uncomfortable long-term.


The collar-wise problem is only present when owners don't follow detailed training plans and instructions that come with the package. This often happens of course, but there's really nothing wrong with having the collar on when needed and off when not. Don't bother trying to get the dog collar "unwise", it won't work, just simply keep it on.
 

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I would disagree with you on the fact that they don't get 'clicker smart'. They totally do. The e-collar will eventually be phased out and the dog will still behave. I say find a good trainer in your area well versed in e-collar training and give them a call. It's totally worth the money.
Guess what? A clicker is much faster and easier to phase out than an ecollar (a lot cheaper too!) I agree that if you are going to zap your dog, at least find someone who knows the theory and method, so you do as little damage to your dog's psyche as possible. Ecollar trained dogs get ecollar smart. Clicker dogs just get smart.
 

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I would disagree with you on the fact that they don't get 'clicker smart'. They totally do.
Are you saying that a clicker wise dog is a BAD thing ?

I've spent a good portion of the morning searching for evidence of that, and instructions on how to "fix" a clicker wise dog. Can't seem to find ANY. :confused:
 

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If your dog only performs with a clicker or food present, you're doing it wrong plain and simple. The clicker is simply a communication tool to help your pet learn. I brought home a foster kitten last week. I used the clicker to teach him to go to his carrier, to come when called, and to tolerate grooming and nail trims so far. Guess what.. he will already respond to these cues without food or the clicker present. That's how fast and effective clicker training can be even to a cat.. an animal most people don't bother to train because they're so difficult. I would love to see an e-collar trainer get those kind of results so quickly using a collar on a 7 month old kitten. The clicker was instrumental in introducing the kitten to my dogs. He was accepted and is loved by pups faster than anything else I ever brought home. Do that with an e-collar.
 

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If your dog only performs with a clicker or food present, you're doing it wrong plain and simple. The clicker is simply a communication tool to help your pet learn. I brought home a foster kitten last week. I used the clicker to teach him to go to his carrier, to come when called, and to tolerate grooming and nail trims so far. Guess what.. he will already respond to these cues without food or the clicker present. That's how fast and effective clicker training can be even to a cat.. an animal most people don't bother to train because they're so difficult. I would love to see an e-collar trainer get those kind of results so quickly using a collar on a 7 month old kitten. The clicker was instrumental in introducing the kitten to my dogs. He was accepted and is loved by pups faster than anything else I ever brought home. Do that with an e-collar.
Proper use of e collar requires motivational foundation which is basically clicker trained behaviour. Any method that doesn't involve positive reinforcement is decades old with or without an e collar. Besides, how could clicker training a cat be an argument against an e collar? People clicker train lions too... it doesn't mean e collars are somehow invalid tools.
 

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I'm not saying e-collars don't work because they absolutely do work. I am saying I think they are unnecessary and there are ways to teach an animal that don't involve causing the animal discomfort. Some of the biggest myths are that clicker training is inferior to other methods because it doesn't work with every dog (I think if you can clicker train a cat, you can clicker train any dog because dogs are generally much more trainable than cats), you ALWAYS have to have treats or the clicker on you for the animal to perform, and that it takes longer than other methods that enforce compliance using an aversive.
 

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hi all,

i use an electric collar with my dog in the last month and i can say it really helps.

the problem is:

my dog is now "smart collar"... it means that it behaves good when the collar on it and when i take it off, it understands it and behaves the way it wants...

what's the way to teach the dog to quit the collar and to stay with the good results?

thanks.
Sounds like you trained backwards. You teach the dog the commands FIRST, use the e collar as long distance reenforcement (if needed). E collars aren't designed to be the primary training tool.

Take the collar off and get your dog into a good operant conditioning based training class (aka positive reenforcement although that's a misnomer) to teach him/her what you want. Build a relationship of TRUST with your dog and become a LEADER instead of a dictator.
 

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I would disagree with you on the fact that they don't get 'clicker smart'. They totally do. The e-collar will eventually be phased out and the dog will still behave. I say find a good trainer in your area well versed in e-collar training and give them a call. It's totally worth the money.


Are you saying that a clicker wise dog is a BAD thing ?

I've spent a good portion of the morning searching for evidence of that, and instructions on how to "fix" a clicker wise dog. Can't seem to find ANY. :confused:
It's called "Fading the Lure"
 

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Sounds like you trained backwards. You teach the dog the commands FIRST, use the e collar as long distance reenforcement (if needed). E collars aren't designed to be the primary training tool.>>>

I agree. really to properly use the ecollar (imo) you basically re-train the dog basic commands at very low levels that are already known using pos methods. This is so the dog understands the meaning of the stim and your not just blasting for bad behavior
 
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